Game version 1.103 discussion: P-40E-1 in early access

[303_Kwiatek]

It is  the slowest fighter on deck (ok not counting ishak here) that can achieve max +/- 470km/h which is 30/40km slower then LaGG-3 and Yak-1.It can scratch some 560km/h at 5k,but above it is just losing performance.There is no ideal hight to fight with this plane on russian front.

Its acceleration is nowhere to be seen.It is just as poor as there is none

To achieve high speed in dive,you have obviously to climb up there first.Problem.Climb rate of 9-10m/s is on par with sturmovik I would say.Try to catch He-111 in a climb.

There is nothing this plane can offer to me that other VVS fighters cant do better.This is a real flying coffin for me,not LaGG-3

 

P-40 E data by Russians  :

[Brano]

Yep,pretty close to what we have in game

[SR-F_Winger]

nothing, its was germany depots and train

You misunderstood me. My IMPRESSION from this video is that the depots the russians have to destroy are much smaller than the depots the germans have to destroy. Am i wrong here?

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

You misunderstood me. My IMPRESSION from this video is that the depots the russians have to destroy are much smaller than the depots the germans have to destroy. Am i wrong here?

 

[SYN_Haashashin]

You misunderstood me. My IMPRESSION from this video is that the depots the russians have to destroy are much smaller than the depots the germans have to destroy. Am i wrong here?

When I build missions I actually make them both the same size aprox. I don't know if you know that the Germans have the biggest bomb on BoS, and If you don't lock the weapons mods, I haven't seen that so far, anyone can take the objectives with just one bomb run. So it makes total sense to make the Russian ones a lil bigger, call it balancing the missions if you want but I don't believe that letting a lonely single He-111destroying an objective by itself was possible in RL so it will be unrealistic and unhistorical...

 

When building missions you need to find the sweet spot between historical and fun.

Edited October 15, 2015 by SYN_Haashashin
Typo

[Habu]

When I build missions I actually make them both the same size aprox. I don't know if you know that the Germans have the biggest bomb on BoS, and If you don't lock the weapons mods, I haven't seen that so far, anyone can take the objectives with just one bomb run. So it makes total sense to make the Russian ones a lil bigger, call it balancing the missions if you want but I don't believe that letting a lonely single He-111destroying an objective by itself was possible in RL so it will be unrealistic and unhistorical...

 

When building missions you need to find the sweet spot between historical and fun.

Haashashin, you can avoid that. You can change the hit point of a target. I did it for the train bunker on Veliki luki map.

[SYN_Haashashin]

Hi Habu

 

Yeah but its extra work! Hahhaha J/K but you (at least me) will expect a depot or any other military facility to have more than simply 5 or so buildings....

 

Of course there are expections like the one you named but he was talking about a MP mission from the DED guys.

[Habu]

ok.

[303_Kwiatek]

Yep,pretty close to what we have in game

 

Question about fuel octan and winter cold air boost.

 

If 100 Octan is used in BOS so P-40 is way too slow,  if  87 octan fuel it still look like have too small bost due cold air comparing to all other planes.

 

Still wonder why developers cant be so historical fair with russian planes performacne in BOS like could be  with others  ex. P-40 ?

Edited October 16, 2015 by 303_Kwiatek

[Brano]

At ground level with MP and rpm in limits it can fly 280-290mph which is 450-470km/h.At 15000ft/5km around 560km/h.Within acceptable tolerance comparing to recorded data.

[303_Kwiatek]

But comparing to other planes in BOS?   E.x. to Yak-1 ( which is overspeed about 40 kph at 5-6 km) or 109 F-4?

Edited October 16, 2015 by 303_Kwiatek

[Matt]

In cold weather, it reaches 520 km/h max at ground-level actually, not 470 km/h.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Matt

[Bearcat]

I can't wait to gewt this plane over some grass...

[LukeFF]

But comparing to other planes in BOS?   E.x. to Yak-1 ( which is overspeed about 40 kph at 5-6 km) or 109 F-4?

 

Post your evidence in the FM subforum if you think something is wrong. 

[Brano]

In cold weather, it reaches 520 km/h max at ground-level actually, not 470 km/h.

Nope.At max continuous power output = 2700rpm and 35 inch MP it is 456km/h flying at treetop level.Measured distance flown 30km (3 map grids)

With the emergency power engaged = 3000rpm and 45inch MP it is 490km/h flying at treetop level.Measured distance flown 20km (2 map grids)

 

Full fuel,outlet cowl flaps fully closed

 

Yes,gauge will show you 325mph when emergency power is engaged,but this IAS is at such low temperature (-15C) and air density in fact higher then your TAS,because air is as thick as it would be 1km below see level.

IAS at sea/ground level at such low temp as we have on maps does not equal TAS.

[303_Kwiatek]

Post your evidence in the FM subforum if you think something is wrong. 

 

There was a lot evidence and topics there about  overspeed some of BOS planes and you know it very good.

[Matt]

Yes,gauge will show you 325mph when emergency power is engaged,but this IAS is at such low temperature (-15C) and air density in fact higher then your TAS,because air is as thick as it would be 1km below see level.

IAS at sea/ground level at such low temp as we have on maps does not equal TAS.

You're right. But then the speed is a bit weird, because the P-40 seems to get no speed increase in cold weather, maybe 5 km/h tops at ground level. Maybe the "cold weather boost" is not working for the P-40 yet.

[Habu]

I'd much rather mission makers increase target size or limit the bomb load rather than increase hit points as it would penalise those people who self limit themselves to smaller bombs. It would be quite disheartening to fly a Stuka to a target, get some hits with your 'regular' bombs but just get a 'score' feedback of: '0 - must try harder!' and no target destroyed. It's not just about the score at all, but online there needs to be some sense of acheivement when bombing to balance out the regular deaths!

I disagree because some objectives can't be achieved by a lone wolf. You can't destroy a bunker (for exemple) with a small bomb. I don't say that all objective must be modify, but only some. I can't imagine to destroy the train bunker on Veliki Luki map with a single FAB 50.

[Brano]

You're right. But then the speed is a bit weird, because the P-40 seems to get no speed increase in cold weather, maybe 5 km/h tops at ground level. Maybe the "cold weather boost" is not working for the P-40 yet.

According charts, with WEP engaged it should fly 470km/h.In game it can go up to 490km/h.So there is a boost in speed from cold air from 5-20km/h depending on MP and rpm you run the engine.Ok with me 

[Frequent_Flyer]

I can't wait to gewt this plane over some grass...

Agreed, the  " green "river breaks the landscape up  nicely as well.

[johncage]

When building missions you need to find the sweet spot between historical and fun.

 

false dilemma/dichotomy. who determines what is fun? who determines the threshold between historical and fun? are fun and historical mutually exclusive?

 

if you take that argument to it's logical conclusion, gaming would have never advanced beyond doom and quake, because people would always say that whatever new challenge or difficulty introduced by the inclusion of authenticity, realism, historicity, whatever(they all fall under the same purview of verisimilitude), would conflict with the notion of "fun" in a game, which is itself highly subjective. so you end up with the same cheap cliches and "gamey" mechanics that don't take much thought or imagination to design. see call of duty, battlefield, etc. just the same cookie cutter formula because it's easy to just give players infinite parachutes instead of thinking of a way to enhance the player's mobility and surviveability without resorting to cartoon idiocy. why even make a game based on real life if you're just going to turn it into wile coyote? this is a thing called aesthetic consistency that most games absolutely fail at. battlefield is a prime example because they take so much effort to make everything look so real. and the you play the game and it's a damn cartoon. replace the soldiers with bugs bunny and it'll at least have consistency.

 

there are ways to make something historical without sacrificing gameplay. that takes balancing, some hands on fine tuning. in the end, it's more about effort and time. the fun vs historical/realistic/authentic arguments are essentially just a form of coping. you would be more honest to say you haven't found or haven't had the time or think it's worth the effort to adjust and tweak the design i order to reconcile history with fun. they are not on a spectrum. they exist in parallel. if it was a spectrum wherein a sweetspot exists, then of course one would go for most fun, and that would be the complete negation of historicity.

Edited October 19, 2015 by johncage

[LukeFF]

^Oh my word, give it a rest already.

[Guest deleted@50488]

I can't get any success with the P-40 E in online dogfights, specially at the Normal Servers.

 

I might gain some additional advantage from climbing first to the highest altitudes and then b&z, but so far it's a total suicide :-/

 

Against the German fighters, specially if working in team, it's impossible for me to hit or simply escape the "enemy"...

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I can't get any success with the P-40 E in online dogfights, specially at the Normal Servers.

 

I might gain some additional advantage from climbing first to the highest altitudes and then b&z, but so far it's a total suicide :-/

 

Against the German fighters, specially if working in team, it's impossible for me to hit or simply escape the "enemy"...

+100

 

P40 is a bit of a coffin as a fighter. U may have some more luck on hardcore but not much.

 

I see it as a attack aircraft that is slightly faster than a il2 which carries a smaller bomb load. It's quite good at getting in and out of a target area quickly

[SYN_Haashashin]

false dilemma/dichotomy. who determines what is fun?

 

Hi there,

 

Sorry, but it aint false from my point of view. As to the answer of this first question: I will say what we allways said, If Syndicate build a mission, we (SYN) decide what is fun since we build it for our own fun, which seemed to be the same fun lots of other are/were looking for.

 

who determines the threshold between historical and fun?

 

If we build the mission, we determine it. I mostly build a mission and then ask others in my squad for the historically correct planeset and stuff like that.

 

 are fun and historical mutually exclusive?

 

For some people, yes they are. For other, no its not. Its a matter of personal opinion and I will keep mine to myself if its ok.

 

As for the rest of that post, lets say that we agree that we disagree.

 

 

Now, enought for the offtopic, of which im guilty as well, and lets get back on topic.

 

+100

 

P40 is a bit of a coffin as a fighter. U may have some more luck on hardcore but not much.

 

I see it as a attack aircraft that is slightly faster than a il2 which carries a smaller bomb load. It's quite good at getting in and out of a target area quickly

 

I only see myself on ground attack duties with the P40, maybe try to dogfight something if I got a good escort but thats its.

[Frequent_Flyer]

Hi there,

 

Sorry, but it aint false from my point of view. As to the answer of this first question: I will say what we allways said, If Syndicate build a mission, we (SYN) decide what is fun since we build it for our own fun, which seemed to be the same fun lots of other are/were looking for.

 

 

If we build the mission, we determine it. I mostly build a mission and then ask others in my squad for the historically correct planeset and stuff like that.

 

 

For some people, yes they are. For other, no its not. Its a matter of personal opinion and I will keep mine to myself if its ok.

 

As for the rest of that post, lets say that we agree that we disagree.

 

 

Now, enought for the offtopic, of which im guilty as well, and lets get back on topic.

 

 

I only see myself on ground attack duties with the P40, maybe try to dogfight something if I got a good escort but thats its.

I would agree the way they have it modeled it pretty much is unflyable no matter how your trim  her. It is a shame the testimony from the RAF, RAAF RNZ, VVS and South Africain and USAAC pilots all rave about her maneuverability, stability, toughness and firepower. The P-40 had a higher top end speed than either the Lagg 3 or the Yak-1 and could out turn both. 

[Alkyan]

I'm finding in SP , a quick 8 vs 8 for example, that the AI is overly persuing a smoking, fleeing target, to the extent that there can be 2 or 3 in a row after the same heavily damaged target,... these are then getting bagged by the other AI. The behaviour in this scenario seems a little worse than it was before this was tweaked.

From what I see sometime in MP, it models very well some pilots behavior