PWCG for BOS Discussion

[PatrickAWlson]

I am going to stick with  the single FW 190 unit at Stalingrad.  May not be historically accurate but if I don't do that players will have no way to fly an FW 190 in PWCG for a very long time.  If it offends anybody I will give instructions as to how to delete it .

 

Airfield assignments will be reasonably close but almost certainly not 100% accurate.  Limitations of the map and time will cause some things to be bit off.

 

My goal with PWCG is always pretty close and historically plausible, but I do not necessarily cater to the super hard core grog.  FW190 is an example.  I won't put the plane in Moscow when it did not even exist, but I will put it at Stalingrad where its presence is at least plausible.  PWCG is a role playing device that is supposed to combine putting you in the setting while still being fun.  Sometimes necessity (time and resources) demands compromises, sometimes enjoyment demands them.  It's a balancing act.

[csThor]

Focus all energy on identifying what Units were in the Stalingrad theater, what planes and what bases they would have used. I need to turn this data into a spreadsheet and then into a format Pat can use.

 

Once have the units complete then we can go back to Aces and Skins since all else flows from the Units involved.

 

Jason

 

Jason, have you taken a look at the spreadsheet I posted? Is that the kind of format that helps you?

[PatrickAWlson]

There is a mechanism to move the front but its inclusion in round 1 is TBD.  The initial test copy is going to put the squadrons in a static location for the length of the battle with a single set of lines.  By the time we get to the release we might have moving fronts and squadron moves.

 

Basically the moving front amounts to drawing new lines and putting them in a date folder.  The "lines" are defined by icon MCUs in a file.  PWCG loads the appropriate set of front lines based on campaign date and then determines ownership dynamically based on front line positions.  As the lines move ownership of stuff (towns, bridges, etc.) changes.  When missions are created the potential targets are divided by ownership and a target location is selected.  In short, once the lines are drawn everything else snaps into place automatically.  

[KodiakJac]

I am going to stick with  the single FW 190 unit at Stalingrad.  May not be historically accurate but if I don't do that players will have no way to fly an FW 190 in PWCG for a very long time.  If it offends anybody I will give instructions as to how to delete it .

 

That sounds like a great solution, Pat.  I'm guessing a test file or two to edit.

 

Thanks!

[LLv24_Zami]

It is good decision to stick with FW-190 IMO.

[Jason_Williams]

Jason, have you taken a look at the spreadsheet I posted? Is that the kind of format that helps you?

 

Yes I have it now. Might be useful. I need to also get unit files from Panzerbar and try to make sense of it all.

 

Jason

[Saurer]

Now that I saw all this information about the units and all I truly cannot be thankfull enough for you Pat and all you guys who are digging up information, sharing it and working in anyway on this Project. 

[D_Konig]

I can't wait to try this, very excited. 

Thanks so much to Pat and everyone contributing.

[KodiakJac]

That sounds like a great solution, Pat.  I'm guessing a test file or two to edit.

 

Thanks!

 

Text file, not test file...lol

[VBF-12_Stele]

Would it be possible to convert a generated mission for multiplayer use? I know that PWCG for ROF has an option for mp missions, but since BOS doesn't support mp missions I imagine some airfields could be activated for spawning. If so, I could see a mission starting maybe 5 mins after a server is setup to give players a chance to join in. 

 

I know you're a busy guy already, and a lot on your plate, but I thought I'd throw in a wish list.

[PatrickAWlson]

PWCG will not do MP missions.  The reason is that except for the player flight, the other planes are not really on the map.  They are virtual flights (a series of chained and timed set of MCUs that emulate a flight flying a path without actually putting the planes onto the map until they are in range of the player).  This lends itself to coop where your friends can fly in the same flight but not MP where you want players on all sides.

[jeanba]

It is good decision to stick with FW-190 IMO.

It is also a good decision to give instruction how to delete it

[LLv24_Zami]

It is also a good decision to give instruction how to delete it

It is. Options are always good.

[PatrickAWlson]

PWCG is pretty much playable right now ... just definitely not complete.  You can start a career, generate playable missions, generate results, etc.  Lots of auxiliary stuff missing like proper squadrons, skins, takeoffs (all missions are currently air start), moving front lines ... you get the picture.  Still, almost every planned mission profile is working, so that is a pretty big deal.  The exception is the IL2.  I posted in the mission making section so if you have any insights into mission making for the IL2 please take a look at that thread.

 

I am going to continue to work missing software features and bugs while data is collected for squadrons.  Jason had it right, let's decide which squadrons to include then we can figure out locations, aces, skins, etc.

 

For the hard core history grog, please be aware that PWCG is always a combination of history and concessions.  We already had the example of using a FW190 squadron at Stalingrad.  Other items will be an incomplete order of battle (probably more units historically than the map has room for), historically imperfect squadron placement, and historically imperfect front line placement, What it does aim to do is put you into the role of a pilot, surround you with some of the historical figures that were really there, have you fly missions that are historically plausible and still fun, have you fight with and against units that were really there, with markings that they really had, etc.  

 

I want to level set expectations because too often something is going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread and TP and then there is a backlash when the thing actually sees the light of day.  PWCG will be a lot of fun, offering a RB3D style campaign for BoS.  If that's your thing then you will like it.

[LLv24_Zami]

That is just perfect, Pat. Thanks for the update, always nice to know what`s going on. I know I will like it a lot. There is enough historical aspect in PWCG to be very interesting. It is unrealistic to expect everything to be 100% like in real Stalingrad conflict IMO.

 

Like I said in the other thread, interesting gameplay is the most important thing in the campaign like PWCG.

[3instein]

 

 

 What it does aim to do is put you into the role of a pilot, surround you with some of the historical figures that were really there, have you fly missions that are historically plausible and still fun, have you fight with and against units that were really there, with markings that they really had, etc.  

 

 

This is what is missing in BoS from a SP standpoint anyway, and is what SP has been crying out for since day one, can't wait.

 

Mick.

[keeno]

Pat,

 

  With regard to "PWCG will be a lot of fun, offering a RB3D style campaign for BoS.  If that's your thing then you will like it". It is my thing, it will be fun and yes I will like it...............a lot!

 

Thanks for all your hard work in this and also ROF.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Edited September 27, 2015 by keeno

[Beazil]

Maybe I missed this, but will there be the possibility of eventually having a live online server you could do this with for multi play? The multi and single player in me looks forward to seeing this project through. Thanks for the hard work and updates. S!

[PatrickAWlson]

Maybe I missed this, but will there be the possibility of eventually having a live online server you could do this with for multi play? The multi and single player in me looks forward to seeing this project through. Thanks for the hard work and updates. S!

 

I posted a detailed explanation earlier but the short answer is no.  The missions that PWCG generates are optimized for SP and would not work in MP.

[KodiakJac]

For the hard core history grog, please be aware that PWCG is always a combination of history and concessions.  We already had the example of using a FW190 squadron at Stalingrad.  Other items will be an incomplete order of battle (probably more units historically than the map has room for), historically imperfect squadron placement, and historically imperfect front line placement, What it does aim to do is put you into the role of a pilot, surround you with some of the historical figures that were really there, have you fly missions that are historically plausible and still fun, have you fight with and against units that were really there, with markings that they really had, etc.  

 

I want to level set expectations because too often something is going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread and TP and then there is a backlash when the thing actually sees the light of day.  PWCG will be a lot of fun, offering a RB3D style campaign for BoS.  If that's your thing then you will like it.

 

All good, Pat!

 

Just had another thought.  Eventually, when available from BoM, could the Bf110 be added to PWCG for Stalingrad fighting?  Once BoM is merged with BoS I think the planes are interchangeable.  Never mind if its the exact correct variant or not, just having a Bf110 at Stalingrad would be great.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Bucksnort

[PatrickAWlson]

All good, Pat!

 

Just had another thought.  Eventually, when available from BoM, could the Bf110 be added to PWCG for Stalingrad fighting?  Once BoM is merged with BoS I think the planes are interchangeable.  Never mind if its the exact correct variant or not, just having a Bf110 at Stalingrad would be great.

 

That's the idea.  We'll see what happens.  For the initial release only BoS planes will be supported.    

[707shap_Srbin]

That's the idea.  We'll see what happens.  For the initial release only BoS planes will be supported.    

For late 1942, most of ZG1's aircrafts in Caucass and Stalingrad area were Bf110E.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I am waiting for further instructions about He111 skins.

 

KG27 1G+JM    Historical skin.

 

Edited September 30, 2015 by =[Coffin]=Gielow

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

[LLv24_Zami]

I am waiting for further instructions about He111 skins.

 

KG27 1G+JM    Historical skin.

 

 

Nice work Gielow! Is there also a swastika version?

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Nice work Gielow! Is there also a swastika version?

I have one work in progress but it does not look good. I think it is too big. I will need to change it later. I can send you if you wish. Send me a PM later. 

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Another KG27 historic skin 1G+BH. WIP.

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2015 by =[Coffin]=Gielow

[Dutchvdm]

Very nice work! 

Just a small question, but what can we expect in regard to flight and squadron sizes? 

 

Thnx

 

Grt Martijn

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Very nice work! 

Just a small question, but what can we expect in regard to flight and squadron sizes? 

 

Thnx

 

Grt Martijn

 

PWCG - ROF Edition allows you to customize many of these variables.

 

Essentially, you are only limited by your hardware.

Another KG27 historic skin 1G+BH. WIP.

 

-snip-

 

I hope that you will release versions that are really historic - that is, with the appropriate markings.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Space_Ghost

[LLv24_Zami]

I'm with Space_Ghost here, would prefer full historic skins to be used.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I think it is finished. I will upload both versions later 

 

I am totally in for full historic skins.

 

I hope there is no problem because PWCG can be considered third party software ???

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2015 by =[Coffin]=Gielow

[LLv24_Zami]

Don't know about that. But if there are both versions available people can use what they want.

Thanks Gielow for your work.

[PatrickAWlson]

So, while I have no idea what various laws are, I also do not know what 777's policies are.

 

If swastikas are a no-no for PWCG out of the box then I won't do it.  Otherwise, I will.  If I do not do it in the PWCG download then players would have to make independent edits of PWCG data files (they are plain text so it's not hard) to add them

[Ace_Pilto]

There's no need to have an option in the GUI, that's just cumbersome.

 

To minimize the hassle, have a downloadable skinpack that overwrites the original/historical files with versions of the same name but with no swastika. Problem solved,

[Warhamm]

So, while I have no idea what various laws are, I also do not know what 777's policies are.

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/pilot/2325/MK.MrX/?tour=2

 

This site made by 777's developers in their free time. So it's third party software.

[Reflected]

May I ask about the status of the development? PWCG for RoF was the best SP experience I've ever had in a sim, next to BoB2 WoV's dyanmic campaign. I can't possibly imagine how much it will boost the BoS experience.

 

I assume we won't see anything before the release of the new seasonal maps?

 

Thanks for your hard work, Pat!

[3instein]

I hope for some kind of release before the end of the year.

 

No biggie if not though, knowing it's coming is good enough for me. 

 

Mick. 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

May I ask about the status of the development? PWCG for RoF was the best SP experience I've ever had in a sim, next to BoB2 WoV's dyanmic campaign. I can't possibly imagine how much it will boost the BoS experience.

 

I assume we won't see anything before the release of the new seasonal maps?

 

Thanks for your hard work, Pat!

 

Pat is still hard at work putting everything together behind the scenes and I know Jason had posted about selecting some players to do testing on the alpha builds...

 

Remain patient. 

I hope for some kind of release before the end of the year.

 

-snip-

 

This is more likely... I definitely wouldn't expect any open-release builds by the end of the month.

[DD_Arthur]

Pat said expect something around November; initially with the BoS winter map only.  He's on the case

[74_jim_nihilist]

Hey Pat, I can't help you with data, but I am a grpahic designer and may help you with the interface (meaning the graphics of the interface) or somesuch?

 

I'm just glad you are working on it and want to help.

Edited October 13, 2015 by 74_jim_nihilist