Common Courtesy?

[[TWB]Pand]

I was flying on WOL with a few friends for the last hour and the teams have been obscenely unbalanced.  More often than not, I choose the side with the fewer pilots.  What happened to the common courtesy between pilots in the flight simulation community to manage this themselves?  

 

It was not an enjoyable experience and only encouraged me and others to leave.  It's been a great last few days; however, I can't say I wasn't disappointed with the total lack of balance and courtesy today. #sadface.

[von_Tom]

 

Lol normally the complaint is the other way round.

 

You'll always get imbalance so just go with it.

 

von Tom

[[TWB]Pand]

Lol normally the complaint is the other way round.

 

You'll always get imbalance so just go with it.

 

von Tom

This is by far the best solution offered to this problem.  Well done sir.

[Alkyan]

Moreover it's not true, there is usually more axis than Russians ! I gradually switch over time from always flying F4 to almost always flying yack just to balance the game.

However most of the time teams are not too imbalance so I would not say its such a huge issue.

[SR-F_Winger]

Pand' timestamp='1442168014' post='286159'] common courtesy

?!?

In BOS, this means parachute kills, straving airfields and even people shooting planes already burning. Just get used to it. Its just a game:P

It can helpo to just return the favor froim time to time:)

Edited September 13, 2015 by JG4_Winger

[[TWB]Pand]

?!?

In BOS, this means parachute kills, straving airfields and even people shooting planes already burning. Just get used to it. Its just a game:P

It can helpo to just return the favor froim time to time:)

Oh I am totally aware that this is a game!  Even though there were 6 enemy aircraft (109's and 190s) stumbling all over themselves to get me, I still managed to kill one of the 109s with my IL-2 before they did.  With ridiculous numbers like this, what's the point?  

 

Most people see numbers like that and just log off and go play something else.  To me, it seems like there should be more people interested in retaining the community, rather than running them off.     

[KoN_]

IMHO i think servers should be balanced. It will give players a chance to see it from the other side . 

[[TWB]Pand]

IMHO i think servers should be balanced. It will give players a chance to see it from the other side . 

Agree, flying only one side is extremely short sighted.  

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Two things comes to mind in discussing this topic. First Complete balance is hard to do and you certainly do not want "autobalnce". If you achieve balance then ten minutes later two on one side leaves and you have an imbalance again. Balance is not impossable just improbable. Two IF, you are flying by yourself, as many of do, then your opening yourself up to those who fly together or in packs. Now I know neither of these are a revilation to you as you've been flying awhile. But it is the way it is. Also admitadly, there are those that fly only one side period. Many are not as flexable as you and I. So in the end, I see no long term solution but I also do not see any meliciousness.

 

Balance is good and a very desriable commadity. Just something you wont see often I'm afraid. But like you, and some others, I will do my best to blance out things IF I can.

 

Chief

[Y-29.Silky]

It's the F-4.

 

There's a good portion of people who fly the F4 and only the F4. I once went to take a piss and grab a beer only to return to see that no F-4's were available at the new airfield I just resupplied, ~20 F-4's gone in 2 minutes. One could say they're getting shot down by Russians but I think they just don't know how to land.

 

Hopefully it'll become more balamced as more aircraft become available.

[[CPT]milopugdog]

It's the F-4.

 

There's a good portion of people who fly the F4 and only the F4. I once went to take a piss and grab a beer only to return to see that no F-4's were available at the new airfield I just resupplied, ~20 F-4's gone in 2 minutes. One could say they're getting shot down by Russians but I think they just don't know how to land.

 

Hopefully it'll become more balamced as more aircraft become available.

I bet they forgot to lock the tail wheel xD

[Feathered_IV]

I wouldn't say that was obscenely unbalanced.  I do recall however flying as the single red aircraft versus sixteen boy Richthofens.  That was pretty silly.

 

Speaking of courtesy, I finally lost it yesterday after the tenth guy blasted his way across my path without using the taxi ways.  I put a two second burst into him before he got his wheels up.  Very satisfying.  Even I have my limits. 

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I think government should take over servers and teach people how to play.  So everyone can get kills without dying and it would be a perfect experience. Joking !!!

 

Cmon guys !!!  It is a war simulation. War is not supposed to be fair. There were no chivalry on eastern front.

 

 

Call people on chat in game, join TS, get some fighter escort, discuss some tactics and try to get some local air superiority to achieve objectives.

 

You wont have 30 enemy fighters over every single target all the time.

 

The only thing that is boring here is going alone to battle.

 

 

 

The reality about numbers on line:

 

If you wanna fly Russian planes and outnumber the Germans try to join early. After a couple of hours the server will be balanced and then the Germans will outnumber the reds.

 

It is that way because of planet Earth´s rotation and people need to go to bed sleep    

Edited September 14, 2015 by =[Coffin]=Gielow

[ACG_pezman]

I started flying allies because of the team balance disparity, it was hard at first but then it became real rewarding.  It's one thing to get kills in a 109 or 190, but that doesn't even come close to the satisfaction level of getting a kill in a La-5 or Yak.  Truth is flying allies was the best thing I could do for acquiring any kind of skill in this game.  

 

Flying allies, you learn real quick to mind your aircraft's limits, stick to it's strengths, and play to enemies weaknesses.  I suggest more people try switching over, you might just enjoy it.

[[CPT]milopugdog]

I think government should take over servers and teach people how to play.  So everyone can get kills without dying and it would be a perfect experience. Joking !!!

 

Cmon guys !!!  It is a war simulation. War is not supposed to be fair. There were no chivalry on eastern front.

 

 

Call people on chat in game, join TS, get some fighter escort, discuss some tactics and try to get some local air superiority to achieve objectives.

 

You wont have 30 enemy fighters over every single target all the time.

 

The only thing that is boring here is going alone to battle.

 

 

 

 

The reality about numbers on line:

 

If you wanna fly Russian planes and outnumber the Germans try to join early. After a couple of hours the server will be balanced and then the Germans will outnumber the reds.

 

It is that way because of planet Earth´s rotation and people need to go to bed sleep  

Uuuuuuuuh, weren't we talking about RIDICULOUS number differences? Like look at the picture OP posted. A 12 PERSON DIFFERENCE. I mean, sure. War isn't fair, but, this is a VIDEO GAME; and I don't know about you, but having a 12 person difference just ruins the fun... Which is kinda the point of a video game

Let's not start another flame war on that though xD

Edited September 14, 2015 by milopugdog

[Willy__]

Uuuuuuuuh, weren't we talking about RIDICULOUS number differences? Like look at the picture OP posted. A 12 PERSON DIFFERENCE. I mean, sure. War isn't fair, but, this is a VIDEO GAME; and I don't know about you, but having a 12 person difference just ruins the fun... Which is kinda the point of a video game

Let's not start another flame war on that though xD

 

I'll point you to post #2 then, which describes exactly the situation:

 

 

Lol normally the complaint is the other way round.

 

You'll always get imbalance so just go with it.

 

von Tom

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I hate being forced to balance because that makes it hard for squads to fly together.

 

BUT iv really had it with people that just fly one side all the time. I mean iv really had it!!!!!!!!!

[Wulf]

I started flying allies because of the team balance disparity, it was hard at first but then it became real rewarding.  It's one thing to get kills in a 109 or 190, but that doesn't even come close to the satisfaction level of getting a kill in a La-5 or Yak.  Truth is flying allies was the best thing I could do for acquiring any kind of skill in this game.  

 

Flying allies, you learn real quick to mind your aircraft's limits, stick to it's strengths, and play to enemies weaknesses.  I suggest more people try switching over, you might just enjoy it.

 

Now, if you'd said that about the Lagg 3 I'd have accepted it but seriously, a Yak or a La 5?  The F 4 could be considered 'marginally' superior - at altitude.  The 190; not so much.     

[F/JG300_Gruber]

I don't think that any kind of autobalance won't do any good to the servers, as people will just go somewhere else to fly the plane they have interest in. Moreover any squad willing to play together will look for a no autobalance server. Some kind of features that lock slotting in a team which is outnumbering the other by X% could be more of a reasonable solution imho.

I'm maybe shortsighted, but after trying them I just don't care about the russian planes, and find no entertainment flying them. I see no point playing a game (and will not) if entertainement is not there. Forcing people to play what they don't want will only bring frustration and be deterrent for the community.


However, I'm doing the courtesy to the red of flying the He111 95% of my time. 

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

Even when the LW has 10 more players than the VVS, the VVS wins 9 times out of 10. The VVS planes are very difficult to kill especially when there are a few of them working together. Their ground attack is also highly effective. That being said, the LW have been winning a few more sessions of late.

 

IMHO The yak has been balanced ito performance. Full flaps, super-tight turns (at all speeds) and it can still haul in a 109 that has a height and speed advantage.

Edited September 14, 2015 by DendroAspis

[=FI=Rambo]

Even when the LW has 10 more players than the VVS, the VVS wins 9 times out of 10. The VVS planes are very difficult to kill especially when there are a few of them working together. Their ground attack is also highly effective. That being said, the LW have been winning a few more sessions of late.

 

 

Its all coordination. 

[SR-F_Winger]

Yah russians are simply the better players ..........

*chuckle*

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

Its all coordination. 

Agreed 100%. There are normally 2 or 3 of us on TS and 10+ players on the VVS side. The VVS planes are also very formidable on the deck where the action is.

 

Its incredibly difficult to turn with the VVS planes on the deck.

Edited September 14, 2015 by DendroAspis

[unreasonable]

Agreed 100%. There are normally 2 or 3 of us on TS and 10+ players on the VVS side. The VVS planes are also very formidable on the deck where the action is.

 

Its incredibly difficult to turn with the VVS planes on the deck.

 

Then don't do it? 

[Feathered_IV]

Ranting on the online ingame messages or calling people 'boy richthofens' (sorry Feathered, but you said it) is more likely to put people off showing courtesy.

 

Aw, c'mon.  I thought it was good.  And kinder than saying egocentric griefers. 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Then don't do it? 

 

But then he'll only be criticized for flying at 5KM...

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Uuuuuuuuh, weren't we talking about RIDICULOUS number differences? Like look at the picture OP posted. A 12 PERSON DIFFERENCE. I mean, sure. War isn't fair, but, this is a VIDEO GAME; and I don't know about you, but having a 12 person difference just ruins the fun... Which is kinda the point of a video game

Let's not start another flame war on that though xD

 

Like I said before those extra fighters wont be everywhere. You need to improve your tactics to find the fun you are looking for. Join a squad or TS and listen the good players like =FI=Rambo have to tell you.

 

Anyway, you can play single player with "fair" numbers and pretend that you are better than what you really are. 

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

THE WIND and the Sun were disputing which was the stronger. Suddenly they saw a traveller coming down the road, and the Sun said: “I see a way to decide our dispute. Whichever of us can cause that traveller to take off his cloak shall be regarded as the stronger You begin.” So the Sun retired behind a cloud, and the Wind began to blow as hard as it could upon the traveller. But the harder he blew the more closely did the traveller wrap his cloak round him, till at last the Wind had to give up in despair. Then the Sun came out and shone in all his glory upon the traveller, who soon found it too hot to walk with his cloak on.

“KINDNESS EFFECTS MORE THAN SEVERITY.”

 

A tale from Aesop. Ranting on the online ingame messages or calling people ' boy richthofens' ( sorry Feathered, but you said it) is more likely to put people off showing courtesy.

 

This is the internet, what do we really expect, harmony and good manners?...

 

Well said .... we have a similar story in the tribes ...

 

Chief

[unreasonable]

Or to put it another way, "honey catches more flies than vinegar". 

[[TWB]Pand]

Or to put it another way, "honey catches more flies than vinegar". 

In game, asking people to balance the teams with honey, unfortunately results in a vinegar response. :/ 

[Czar66]

 

1- Cmon guys !!!  It is a war simulation. War is not supposed to be fair. There were no chivalry on eastern front.

 

 

2- The only thing that is boring here is going alone to battle.

 

1- That's silly. As a game, the frustration factor is important if you want the player base to grow, in the first place. If there were no chivalry as the vulching numbers decreased after early access, I would probably had stayed away from BoS after stopping playing for the first time earlier this year. I'm back at it and really enjoying the growth on the BoS pilots even if it's not there yet for some people.

 

2- That's very true.

 

I started flying allies because of the team balance disparity, it was hard at first but then it became real rewarding.  It's one thing to get kills in a 109 or 190, but that doesn't even come close to the satisfaction level of getting a kill in a La-5 or Yak.  Truth is flying allies was the best thing I could do for acquiring any kind of skill in this game.  

 

Flying allies, you learn real quick to mind your aircraft's limits, stick to it's strengths, and play to enemies weaknesses.  I suggest more people try switching over, you might just enjoy it.

 

Had my first flights on my new bought FW-190 on this sim this week and enjoyed it a lot. I did left it aside from MP for a number of occasions because these team unbalance, and you know what? It's been great flying VVS again.

 

 

I hate being forced to balance because that makes it hard for squads to fly together.

 

BUT iv really had it with people that just fly one side all the time. I mean iv really had it!!!!!!!!!

 

I also don't get the thing for flying only german or russian, but that's a thing for some. I tried to focus on a single aircraft for more than 2 weeks, but the other birds/faction seems always calling me back depending on the mood, really.

Edited September 14, 2015 by FeliusCzar

[Y-29.Silky]

Even when the LW has 10 more players than the VVS, the VVS wins 9 times out of 10. The VVS planes are very difficult to kill especially when there are a few of them working together. 

 

 

Russian aircraft are not difficult to shoot down. The LW loses because you just can't win at 8000m over Russian airfields.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Then don't do it? 

 

But then he'll only be criticized for flying at 5KM...

 

-snip-

 

The LW loses because you just can't win at 8000m over Russian airfields.

 

Told ya so.

[TP_Jacko]

I was flying on WOL with a few friends for the last hour and the teams have been obscenely unbalanced.  More often than not, I choose the side with the fewer pilots.  What happened to the common courtesy between pilots in the flight simulation community to manage this themselves?  

 

It was not an enjoyable experience and only encouraged me and others to leave.  It's been a great last few days; however, I can't say I wasn't disappointed with the total lack of balance and courtesy today. #sadface.

 

A sort of + point is there were 60 fliers on the server eh 

[Wulf]

At the end of the day, people will vote with their feet in these situations.  If they logon and find a crazy imbalance that doesn't accord with their expectations they'll probably just logout.  Same with people who believe an unfair imbalance has developed while playing.  In most cases they'll probably hit the exist button.  These options don't exist in RL of course but that's another story.  Once it becomes clear to the highly numerous opposing players that there's little prospect of even seeing an enemy aircraft let alone shooting one down, they too will tend to drift away.  Outcome - harmony is restored once again and all the people who love nothing better than placing restrictions on other people's behaviour will be forced to find something else to do with their time...

[unreasonable]

Told ya so.

 

 Well strictly speaking he was being criticized for flying at 8km, not 5km!

 

Seriously though I have often wondered what the LW was doing up there: they must have much better eyesight than I do because I usually cannot even see aircraft 3-4km below me. And how much extra height do you need to make a swooping attack anyway?

 

 

At the end of the day, people will vote with their feet in these situations.  If they logon and find a crazy imbalance that doesn't accord with their expectations they'll probably just logout.  Same with people who believe an unfair imbalance has developed while playing.  In most cases they'll probably hit the exist button.  These options don't exist in RL of course but that's another story.  Once it becomes clear to the highly numerous opposing players that there's little prospect of even seeing an enemy aircraft let alone shooting one down, they too will tend to drift away.  Outcome - harmony is restored once again and all the people who love nothing better than placing restrictions on other people's behaviour will be forced to find something else to do with their time...

 

The trouble with this is that this harmony - or equilibrium - could be with zero players, if players are intolerant of numbers mismatches and expect them to persist.

 

I do not see why server admins should not set a numbers ratio for a given mission - it might be even, 3:2, 2:1 whatever, then rotate the ratio around to add variety to the mission. The out numbered team needs victory conditions that are achievable, of course.

 

Is this placing restrictions on other people's behaviour? Yes, but so is insisting that teams in a casual game of soccer in the park are as even as possible: that is how games are played, anarchy is not harmony.  

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I also don't get the thing for flying only german or russian, but that's a thing for some. I tried to focus on a single aircraft for more than 2 weeks, but the other birds/faction seems always calling me back depending on the mood, really.

 

It's not about flying only one aircraft or side it's that squads like to fly together in a group. Obviously you will get a preference from the historical squadrons otherwise they'd not have names like GIAP or JG etc. Auto-balance would mess up squad flying and make it pointless to have a squad in the first place.

 

Seriously though I have often wondered what the LW was doing up there: they must have much better eyesight than I do because I usually cannot even see aircraft 3-4km below me. And how much extra height do you need to make a swooping attack anyway?

 

 

You're assuming the VVS only fly on the deck, they don't. 8K is a bit extreme but it is not unusual to find Yaks high, if you fly at 4k they will try and get the upper hand and come in at 5, fly at 5 they might come at 6 etc etc. It's nothing to do with sides and everything to do with the fact that good pilots will try to start an engagement with an advantage....why wouldn't you?

[unreasonable]

 

You're assuming the VVS only fly on the deck, they don't. 8K is a bit extreme but it is not unusual to find Yaks high, if you fly at 4k they will try and get the upper hand and come in at 5, fly at 5 they might come at 6 etc etc. It's nothing to do with sides and everything to do with the fact that good pilots will try to start an engagement with an advantage....why wouldn't you?

 

Fair enough, but if the main point of the LW patrols is to prevent the Soviet ground attack from getting through then the Germans have to fly low enough that they can see them, intercept before they reach their targets and be willing to mix it at the Soviet ground pounders' height.  Otherwise the Soviets have won the battle just by making the LW fighters fly high, whoever ends up with the most fighter kills.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Fair enough, but if the main point of the LW patrols is to prevent the Soviet ground attack from getting through then the Germans have to fly low enough that they can see them, intercept before they reach their targets and be willing to mix it at the Soviet ground pounders' height.  Otherwise the Soviets have won the battle just by making the LW fighters fly high, whoever ends up with the most fighter kills.

 

 

That's correct and is what makes it quite hard to perform both tasks (without any real coordination).

 

In the ideal world you would have an air superiority group at higher altitude co-coordinating with a lower altitude group which can take out bombers and the like....or more ideally layers of fighters at 1-2k intervals over main target areas plus sweeps behind the front line. 

 

This would actually very really cool but would take some serious organising and I doubt it would ever happen. 

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

For LW.... if you fly alone , which most of the guys do, and you're anything below 3000m you are like a sealpup floating around in a great white shark hotzone.... its just a matter of time you are going to get nailed by a RED. I normally fly with a wingman and if we go near the friendly targets we almost always get jumped by a red. Once they jump on you, your only option is to run straight and run fast. If you survive, you have to go in higher and higher till you stop getting bounced. Normally around 4-5k it calms down a bit and you can stay alive if you keep your eyes peeled.

 

The red's planeset is perfectly suited to these maps and a groundwar. If the LW guys just took 3 or 4 109's and a He111 or 2 and bombed the targets it would be a different story. THe He111 takes a long time to get up to 4k and then to target so I think a lot of folk would rather get to the hotzones and get a kill rather than escort bombers. Its pretty much a furballer game right now.

 

Maybe we need a map that has 3 or 4 russian targets. LW need a few bombers and escorts and the reds need to defend. You only get 1 life and maybe 2 or 3 planes if you make it back to base intact. That could be interesting for every now and then.

Edited September 15, 2015 by DendroAspis