Improve Draw Distance/Icons = more players

[=LD=4brkfast]

The icon suggestions I made before, that is, keeping them simple, basic, UNDER the plane and not visible through your airplane with various icon rendering distances was intended to improve the gameplay and draw more players in. The fact this still has not changed utterly baffles me.

 

If the idea is to bring in more players, improve the icons and improve rendering distance and level of detail at distance WITHOUT needing to zoom. 

 

The fact ah2 has more players than this beautiful, amazing game should be insulting. haha. I laugh because it is a bit of a joke. Too much pain staking effort has been clearly spent. And one thing should be clear, if players actually like straining to search for a few slim gray pixels on a blue sky is fun, than keep it in the game. What I suggest is provide different options available for server admins to tweak the spotting distance and level of detail, or enlarged planes to make the gameplay easier for those that don't have an interest in that kind of thing. Open the doors for everybody! Not just the niche crowd but for those that do have an interest in air combat but believe it's 'too hard'. The learning curve is already really steep, spotting shouldn't be part of this because the colors are not vibrant enough.

 

Not changing the icons or improving rendering distance, for me, makes me wonder if bringing in new players is a goal at all. Is it a goal?

 

This isn't to suggest I don't have an interest in no-icons, I do as much as any prop nose ww2 sim player, the problem with it is the unrealistic manner(for me, I have great eyes) in which what would or should be a very obvious and close aircraft tend to 'vanish' in the blue sky. Gray on blue with the aircraft slimming to a few pixels tall(even on a 45 inch tv/monitor, with sweetfx, with a terrain.cfg tweak, a nice video card, etc) happens very much too often. Design the game as if the in-game character pilots have 20/10 vision, like many real pilots would have. Those that have 'no issue' with this problem have probably exclusively been playing this game. It has to be about gameplay, it has to be about making it fun, making the fights viewable and making the situation more apparent than it is.

 

Not addressing this issue is ignoring hundreds of potential customers. Aces High 2 is PROOF of what I'm saying. And that game is a literal joke at this point and STILL has more players than this AMAZING flight sim game!!!! Does this not frustrate anybody else?! Why are players in Il-2 required to download a third party post processing software to spot and track?? Or to create a config file to insert into the game files to hopefully improve draw distance and level of detail at distance?

 

I can't stress this enough. As good as the aircraft fly, as great as the damage model is and as much potential as this game has to become truly great, it's limited by the way aircraft seem to 'poof'. At a certain point the aircraft just literally vanish entirely. Rendering distance for aircraft, making them darker and larger will help.

 

And speaking frankly, the number of players during the American time zones is truly pathetic. There are sim players around that have probably tried this game and were pushed away with the difficult spotting and tracking against the blue sky and ground.

 

The reason why a crappy game like ah2 has 150 players STILL playing a boxy, unhistorical game is because of spotting(gameplay!!!!!!)! That and the numbers in the servers. 64 players is a nice improvement but still too small.

 

Most players, like me, do not have oculus rift and probably won't have this sort of technology for at least a few years. In the mean time, playing on a single monitor is akin to flying around with one eye. No depth perception.

 

This means to replace a lack of depth perception:

 

Color is very important(sweetfx helps a lot here, but still leaves a whole lot to be desired). Things need to have vibrant colors. Strong colors will replace how the human eye/brain see, as it has in every other flight sim. Hopefully the summer maps, desert maps, etc will make all of this a lot easier. I really, really hope so. If it doesn't I wouldn't expect anymore players than those avid, die-hard simmers that are already here.

 

Many sims before this were required to enlarge the aircraft at distance to see them. Not to mention darkening them and providing a pseudo glint or shine to have them stand out against the sky and ground. In theory spotting a dark plane against the white ground should be easier. Unfortunately, because of the foggy colors, it is the opposite.

 

And that's perhaps the saddest part of all! It doesn't have to be like this.

 

I'm making this post again, because I want to see this game reach it's high potential and actually bring in new pilots and old pilots that aren't playing for similar reasons. This will help!! 

 

Take this from a guy who has been flying for nearly a decade. I wasn't playing!! And it was because spotting was frustrating, trying to see a gray, super slim few pixels(despite the aircraft being no further than 1500 meters) on a blue sky is no fun. Spotting and tracking within 3000 meters should be a lot easier than it is.

 

Please take this seriously! Please please please please! Please make the spotting easier! No more gray on gray, no more foggy colors! Vibrant colors! Larger airplanes, thick, obvious planes! No more slim airplanes that are a few pixels tall when facing away or toward. At least give options for this. Better icons. Options for admins! Open the doors to potential customers! Gameplay!!!!!

 

I hope my frustration isn't ignored. I have high hopes for this game still. These issues must be addressed, if they are not I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers never improve beyond what they are. One full 64 person server? That's it?! ONE! Haha! And only ONE during prime time hours when both Eastern, Western European and North American players are all on together. Only one!! 100 players total, maybe! #$@%&@#@!!!!!

[71st_AH_Hooves]

I feel that Spotting in this game is better than in ANY other Combat Flight sim Ive played.  Strange how much we disagree on this point, I dotn play Normal at all, so I cant comment.

[=LD=Strat]

The most important tweak I see FOR SURE is to improve draw distance of other aircraft. Say there is an aircraft way above you and you can see nav lights/tracers, but even at max zoom there is not even a tiny black dot to signify that there is another aircraft in that part of the sky. We at least need a black dot that can be seen at these distances taking horizon and elevation into account. 

 

Right now you have Pe-2s that seemingly vanish just as quickly as say a Yak at the same distance. I can easily see helicopters and light aircraft leaving the airport 14.4 miles (23.1746 Km) away from my elevated front porch!  

Edited August 29, 2015 by =LD=Strat

[=LD=4brkfast]

Hooves, you might be right. It probably is better than other flight sims. That isn't the point.

 

I'm trying to push to get MORE players and the way to do that is to make it even easier to spot and track, like it would in life.

 

Proof of what I'm saying is in the numbers.

 

It's 9pm Eastern Standard time in North America. There are 3 servers with players. One with 1 player, one with 3 and one with 25. I don't have to say anything else, that's the only argument I need right now.

 

It MUST BE IMPROVED. Numbers like that reflect a broken game. This game, like you suggest Hooves, is not broken. In life I can clearly see a flying object at ten miles minimum. That isn't the case in this game.

 

The point of this post is completely missed if this isn't understood. It must adhere to the limitations of the technology. The pretty graphics are hurting the gameplay.

 

And to be fair, the old Il2 games you could spot a lot easier. Probably because of the older graphics. And in Aces High 2 I could spot at ten miles easily without icons. So, wrong, that's an incorrect assessment. Better graphics should not hurt gameplay and again, as mentioned, the only argument I need is the numbers of players.

 

If you really think that there are only 30 players among the 300 million in the United States alone are the ONLY people interested? Haha

 

Not to mention, your response makes no sense to me.

 

Don't you WANT more players?! More players means more money for 1C. More money for 1c means more content. Duh. Why argue or poo poo this?? Why???????? Hahaha! Silly stuff.

[=LD=Strat]

As for icons I could see a close range friendly only icon as a nice option for servers wanting to enable them... As we have it now there tends to be what I call 'Friendly Furballs' which are large groups of friendly aircraft converging over objective and then constantly turning to identify eachother. None of us are all on the same TS at the same time of course...

Edited August 29, 2015 by =LD=Strat

[=LD=4brkfast]

As far as I can tell there is an elitist attitude in this crowd. And I don't get it.

 

I want more players. I want more maps. I want more planes. And the best way to get this is more players. And the best way to get more players is to open the doors, with good icons, good spotting.

 

Anybody that tries to argue this makes absolutely no sense to me and never will.

 

In any business ignoring customers is a bad idea and that's what's happening. It's been months and these issues have not been addressed.

 

I feel as if I've been ignored.

[Sokol1]

I guess this people that still paying to fly in AH2 is because find in then more than "big icons/labels".

The issue with this few players numbers go beyond icons/drawn distances... 

 

BTW - I am a "elitist" that dont play in "icons" servers. 

 

But what is wrong with these icons/labels? They need flashing?

 

 

Well, I just don't see the need of this "Plane" label, as any machine flying in this game is obviously plane - I don't see any UFO until now.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Hooves, you might be right. It probably is better than other flight sims. That isn't the point.

 

I'm trying to push to get MORE players and the way to do that is to make it even easier to spot and track, like it would in life.

 

Proof of what I'm saying is in the numbers.

 

It's 9pm Eastern Standard time in North America. There are 3 servers with players. One with 1 player, one with 3 and one with 25. I don't have to say anything else, that's the only argument I need right now.

 

It MUST BE IMPROVED. Numbers like that reflect a broken game. This game, like you suggest Hooves, is not broken. In life I can clearly see a flying object at ten miles minimum. That isn't the case in this game.

 

The point of this post is completely missed if this isn't understood. It must adhere to the limitations of the technology. The pretty graphics are hurting the gameplay.

 

And to be fair, the old Il2 games you could spot a lot easier. Probably because of the older graphics. And in Aces High 2 I could spot at ten miles easily without icons. So, wrong, that's an incorrect assessment. Better graphics should not hurt gameplay and again, as mentioned, the only argument I need is the numbers of players.

 

If you really think that there are only 30 players among the 300 million in the United States alone are the ONLY people interested? Haha

 

Not to mention, your response makes no sense to me.

 

Don't you WANT more players?! More players means more money for 1C. More money for 1c means more content. Duh. Why argue or poo poo this?? Why???????? Hahaha! Silly stuff.

fair enough

[=LD=4brkfast]

There's nothing wrong with what the game has. My frustration with the lack of numbers is probably clear but shouldn't be misinterpreted as anger.

 

With these icons you can use them for blind lead shots, not to mention you can see them through your airplane, as mentioned before. That isn't going to train players to get better, it's going to have them sticking to these game modes as advancing will only make the learning curve steeper.

 

The subtle differences, that is, the icon under the plane and icons you can't see through your plane will help new players, that is, new players to flight sims get a handle on how to fly and fight.

 

Opening up the game options will help bring in new players especially now that it's on steam. Options to remove arrows, remove the icons viewable through the plane, reduce the precise distances, remove the player names will all help.

 

I'm really not suggesting taking anything away. I'm suggesting adding options. Even in the old Il-2's, I don't remember being able to see icons through your tail.

 

And I don't really play with icons either. I'm suggesting you provide these things for players that want to play in modes between no icons, which is undoubtedly realistic in some ways though when an airplane is within 1000 meters being able to see and track a plane should be a lot easier. They don't stick out from the background, as depth perception would allow.

 

I don't understand why any of this is being poo poo'd. lol Makes no sense at all. Wouldn't it be a good thing to get new players? More players? So many there's more then twenty people in a server on a friday night? More players is more money and in turn more content over time.

 

Negging adding options isn't going to help bring in more players. It has the numbers of a broken game and the fact these things won't even be tried? Nobody has to use them, after all, but somebody might.

 

Just makes no sense. The lack of players is really the only argument I need right now. In my experience most air combat guys don't want to ONLY play no icons. Within this niche crowd, the no icon guys are a niche within the niche. And there's nothing wrong with playing with no icons, full realism, nothng at all, and there's nothing wrong with adding icon options, no icon options(darkening the planes, making the colors more vibrant, enlarging the planes, etc) either. Or am I wrong here? haha

 

This will be my last post about this topic as it only seems to be getting poo poo'd. These things will only limit the player base to those that really really really want to play, opposed to offering gradual steps of difficulty, realism and helping a player learn first how to fight and keep SA with helpers without showing everything, rather than trying to learn how to pick out a flat gray spec against a foggy background at well. I know I'm not the only player that has noticed others not going into evasives. These are new players that are having a hard time spotting and might not like the current icon system, or, might like it but because of the lack of players has no choice but to fly where there are players. A whole one server.

 

Don't get it. Never will. It's all limiting the potential player base. Imagine getting a couple hundred more players? Or imagine logging in to find some five to ten servers are full or have action? Maybe most of them will find a nice place to play with good icons and maybe, after a while, some 20-50% of them move on to no icons, etc. More players is good, right? Isn't this a business?

[LLv24_Zami]

I agree with OP, more icon options would be a good thing. And more options in general, people like them.

[=LD=4brkfast]

There's nothing wrong with what the game has. My frustration with the lack of numbers is probably clear but shouldn't be misinterpreted as anger either, btw.

 

With these icons you can use them for blind lead shots because they're ontop of the plane, not to mention you can see them through your airplane, as mentioned before. That isn't going to train players to get better, it's going to have them sticking to these game modes as advancing will only make the learning curve steeper.

 

The subtle differences, that is, the icon under the plane and icons you can't see through your plane will help new players, that is, new players to flight sims get a handle on how to fly and fight and the limitations that World War 2 pilots, really any pilot had to endure.

 

Opening up the game options will help bring in new players especially now that it's on steam. Options to remove arrows, remove the icons viewable through the plane, reduce the precise distances, remove the player names will all help.

 

I'm really not suggesting taking anything away. I'm suggesting adding options. There are so many options to add. The current icon system is something you might find in a Training Arena. Precise distances, player names, icons viewable through your plane, something that a pure new player would probably need. A step up from that is limiting the information, icons that you can't see through the plane, 200-500 meter distance steps, no player names and limited distances with the icons. The next step from that is limited icons even more, shorter distances or no information at all other than a little circle or diamond at the center of the craft. And the next step from that is friendly icons only. All of this will provide a wide variety of options for all skill levels, from Training Arenas, Dueling Arenas to special events, so everybody can enjoy the game in what way they enjoy most and we can all get what we want. More players and more content.

 

And I don't really play with icons either. I'm suggesting you provide these things for players that want to play in modes between what is currently available, which is undoubtedly realistic in some ways though when an airplane is within 1000 meters being able to see and track a plane should be a lot easier. They don't stick out from the background, as depth perception would allow.

 

I don't understand why any of this is being poo poo'd. lol Makes no sense at all. Wouldn't it be a good thing to get new players, a new generation or maybe somebody that has always had an interest but never encountered a game that provided the varied levels of helpers and detail? More players? So many there's more then twenty people in a server on a friday night? More players is more money and in turn more content over time. After all, it's on steam now, that's an entire market of people that could be attracted to a high fidelity ww2 sim that offers all of these options to help train and teach players how to fight and fly.

 

Negging adding options isn't going to help bring in more players. It has the numbers of a broken game and the fact these things won't even be tried? Nobody has to use them, after all, but somebody might, in fact, somebody probably will. There -could- be dozens of different servers all offering different kinds of stuff.

 

Just makes no sense. The lack of players is really the only argument I need right now. In my experience most air combat guys don't want to ONLY play no icons. Within this niche crowd, the no icon guys are a niche within the niche. And there's nothing wrong with playing with no icons, full realism, nothng at all, and there's nothing wrong with adding icon options, no icon options(darkening the planes, making the colors more vibrant, enlarging the planes, etc) either. Or am I wrong here? haha

 

This will be my last post about this topic as it only seems to be getting poo poo'd. These things will only limit the player base to those that really really really want to play, opposed to offering gradual steps of difficulty, realism and helping a player learn first how to fight and keep SA with helpers without showing everything, rather than trying to learn how to pick out a flat gray spec against a foggy background at well. I know I'm not the only player that has noticed others not going into evasives. These are new players that are having a hard time spotting and might not like the current icon system, or, might like it but because of the lack of players has no choice but to fly where there are players. A whole one server.

 

Don't get it. Never will.  It's all limiting the potential player base. Imagine getting a couple hundred more players? Or imagine logging in to find some five to ten servers are full or have action? Maybe most of them will find a nice place to play with good icons and maybe, after a while, some 20-50% of them move on to no icons as their skill grows and they start to crave more. More players is good, right? Isn't this a business?

Nobody is forcing a seasoned veteran to play with icons and new players should have a choice and places to go. But I suspect this will continue to be ignored as this suggestion was made when this game was in alpha and absolutely nothing was changed. I was told the icons were changed. For a day. And went right back again. Just baffling to me, as baffling as how the company won't apologize to the sim community for what happened with Cliffs of Dover. I'm not personally fishing for an apology, btw, frankly I could care less about stupid pride nonsense.

 

I'm fishing for more options for more players because the numbers are absolutely pathetic and parallel a game that was abandoned and unsupported rather than this incredibly detailed, high fidelity sim that should have a player base and numbers base reflecting the effort and skill it took to create it. Instead.... there's only one place to fly typically. And that's just so sad to me! By now, with these twenty some servers to play on, shouldn't there be some choice of where to play by now? And negging this! Getting ridicule? To those that might ridicule, I ask, are you really a fan of this game? If so, why ridicule more options? Why make it so there are such limited places to play that a new player is likely to try it a few times, get shot down by somebody they can't/didn't see and rarely if ever try it again? I keep hearing the argument that it's hard to spot in real life. Sure it is. But this is a game and a business. Make it playable for everybody and this doesn't mean changing the flight models or offering aim assist, keep the flight models the same, just help new players and those interested in a next generation sim step into a game that offers options and varied levels of helpers so they can enjoy it as much as the avid full realism simmers.

 

I'm a seasoned air combat vet. And I stopped playing the game for these same reasons. Not because I need icons, I would like a choice sometimes, sure, for more casual play, so I can engage in fun rolling scissors and engage multiple targets at once without needing to focus on dark gray pixels against dark blue skies with the option to go join the full realism guys as well. Options to adhere to real life, options that don't give too much information and provide a reasonable balance of gameplay, fun and realism. Right now not only are there no options for this, but there's no players and yet still, what I read is ridicule and misunderstanding.

By now, it should be obvious, something should probably be changed to get better results as expecting more players, expecting a growing community, using the same techniques and ideas that shrunk the community and player base is by definition insanity. How can one expect the problem to be solved using what caused the problem?

 

I expect this to be ignored, just like it was before. Not only by the community in total but by the developers. I'd be insane to expect different. Haha. Maybe I'm insane for even trying and hoping there is somebody in the community and company that has ears to hear and actually wants the game to grow. This game probably already has all the super niche realism simmers, at least those that aren't still put off by Cliffs of Dover. What it needs is more beginners and intermediate players. And given the game is on steam? There's your market right there. Once there are options it can be advertised as a game that is not only challenging but provides the tools and options needed for new players to learn. The no icon crowd is a small percentage of the overall player base in my experience to begin with and such things were typically reserved for special events and those that are part of a good team of players that work together. Most new and intermediate players aren't part of a fighter squad like I am and won't have the support needed to learn, not to mention, there is still a distinct lack of official trainers here or even an official training/dueling arena.

You want new players? More players? Teach them. You do that with a wide variety of options and everything I mentioned. I wouldn't be where I am now without the help of good trainers and the varied levels of options. I didn't step into this type of game as a Hotel Sierra. I trained. I became a trained killer. I learned how and when to grit my fangs, I learned the ins and outs and the minutia of a rolling scissor, of the inside and outside roll, of lag and lead pursuit and everything else, of the real life techniques, mindsets and mottos employed in this type of game, I learned with official, highly skilled trainers and a fantastic fighter squad. These options will help make this happen. And I probably wouldn't be here without that stuff, that is, I wouldn't be flying the game or much less bought it. Open the doors, give the options to the community so at least there are avenues for this to be possible. 

 

And once again, despite all this I typed, the only argument I need right now...? Look at the player numbers. They are pathetic. And it's a travesty that nothing has changed. The community, developers, company, whomever, can either take this as constructive criticism from a player that wants to see this game become amazing and recognizes a distinct lack of community or as... whatever else, something pointless and based on pride and hurt feelings or something, who knows, I don't get it. At least there's no mouse aim, eh? lol. So silly. And there are North Americans that will play it, especially once some Lend Lease aircraft get added and perhaps once a North African map and plane set is added. I'm one of them, they exist and once, there were thousands of them playing a game that was a waaaaaayyy more stupid, unhistorical and dated than this game will ever be.

 

I couldn't edit my post, so I reposted this instead.

[johncage]

lol @ thinking bringing in more players is as simple as changing icons around and imputing a different value for draw distance.

 

naive doesn't begin to describe it.

[SharpeXB]

Wow. You wrote too much on this topic for most anyone to read...

 

Icons. If you like them turn them on. If you don't just turn them off. Most players online in this sim and others (RoF, DCS) actually play on servers with them off so I don't think options in this regard will increase mp participation.

 

As for "smart scaling" or LOD scaling or whatever you want to call making the planes larger at distances so they'll be more visible. This is an archaic option from the archaic type games you mention and I don't think it adapts well to the current era of graphic sophistication.

 

Just learn to use the zoom to see more effectively.

Edited August 29, 2015 by SharpeXB

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

There is more to it than just ON/OFF.

 

What about the option of friendly icons only at a few 100m identifying the pilot for example?

I think that there could be a lot of value in at least allowing server configurable customization options for the display of icons.

Following the original IL2's example would be ideal.

 

I've seen way too many friendly spotting furballs occur to demonstrate that the FOV zoom is not always ideal for every situation.

[SharpeXB]

I think that there could be a lot of value in at least allowing server configurable customization options for the display of icons.

Options are fine. But the trouble in multiplayer is that there aren't enough players or servers to support a multitude of checkbox options. You'll end up with two choices regardless. Expert with icons off. Normal with icons on. And most players choose off in mp anyways. DCS allows you to edit the icons I believe. But the only servers that are populated don't use icons so what use is customizing them?

Multiplayer cannot really support a multitude of difficulty options.

In Single Player it doesn't matter (unless you're playing the official campaign for a score) you can just flip the icons on of off as you like.

Edited August 30, 2015 by SharpeXB