How to get the best out of my rig?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Hi everyone, the August sale got me excited but I'm struggling if I should get it or not because of my 2009 stock rig. Coming from a 1946 background, graphics, bells and whistles are not a necessity (ie anything around 1946 level will do), and I'm mostly in for the simulation and historical side of it.

 

Would you kind souls be able to give me some pointers on how can I get the best out of this rig (or if it's a dead case too), if possible without making additional purchases but if needed which bottlenecks should I clear first?

 

Before I get to the specs, the usual considerations:

 

•  I am not looking for a new PC at the moment; that being said, if that's the only way do let me know
• Major upgrades (RAM, GPU, Processor and whatnot) are also not being considered as of now, but can be done later this year
• I am willing to overclock my processor, despite not having done it before and this model being notorious for its poor OC ability

 

The specs can be found here: http://support.hp.com/ca-en/document/c01724967

(EDIT: This page lists FULL hardware specs, plus hardware compatibility and so on, ie any recommendation would have to fit this list)

 

I have added a 2GB RAM stick to the computer, installed Vista 64 Home Premium and I keep all heavier files in a separate USB HDD. I run Il-2 1946 from this HDD maxed out with good FPS, but I assume BoS (if at all) would have to be ran from the internal HDD, which is fine.

 

Thanks a lot, everyone!

Edited August 25, 2015 by Lucas_From_Hell

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

You're considerably under the minimum requirements - if you purchase it with your current hardware it is unlikely that you will be able to enjoy the simulation to its potential.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Thanks a lot, I figured as much. A quick question though, considering the requirements and my gear:

• Windows® XP (SP3) / Vista (SP1) / Windows® 7 (SP1) / Windows® 8 / Windows® 10 (Vista 64 - Pass)

• CPU: Intel® Core™ 2 Quad 2.6 GHz+ or Intel® Core™ i5/i7 2.6 GHz+ (Core 2 Quad 2.33 - Fail)

• GPU: 1024 Mb+, GeForce GTX 260+/Radeon HD5850+ (GT120, 1GB - Pass, I believe?)

• RAM: 4 Gb+ (5GB - Pass)

Of course, I could be misinterpreting, but from what I see the biggest sinner is the processor. Would replacing it for something compatible that makes the grade (or OCing it to 2.7 or even 3.0) be a game changer, or is the whole gear just too old to do any good? On short term I could upgrade the processor, RAM or GPU.

[kissklas]

Hello Lucas,

 

I'd say that the biggest sinner would be the GPU. On the paper it performs less than a third of the GTX260 in the requirements. But the CPU is also a concern.

I would also advice against upgrading this machine. You would anyways need to upgrade your motherboard to fit processors of a newer generation. And you will most likely need a new GPU to get a good experience with BoS/BoM. It would probably also be a good idea to have 8+ GB of memory, as games today often require a large amount of textures and other resources stored on RAM.

 

You are better off saving for a complete set of parts. If you build it yourself you can also shave a bit of the budget.

 

Hope you decide to get BoS/BoM at some point. It is a great sim, with a nice community:)

 

See you in the skies,

Klas

 

PS: For my last rig I even bought used parts, for a very low price. I ran this game on max graphics with two cheap used HD6950s. They did the trick until I had money to buy a new one.

You could also consider something like the GTX 970. It's great bang for buck, even if it is a little pricey:)

[Dakpilot]

I would try downloading RoF free edition and seeing how that runs at low settings, this will give you at least some sort of baseline and cost nothing...

 

http://riseofflight.com/

 

If RoF is playable, then you should be able to run BoS in a very limited form,

 

IF that test works then I would recommend buying BoS in the sale to see if the advances from original IL-2 engine are enough to warrant the upgrade cost, 30 pounds (few beers or a meal ) is cheaper than a new computer

 

While lacking the content of original IL-2 at present, BoS is a huge upgrade in physics/flying/simulation and worth the cost just to fly circuits with the various aircraft and explore their systems/handling, however this is all dependant on personal values, your experience may differ

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Thank you very much guys, appreciate the advice.

 

The funny thing is one of my main reasons to make the jump is the complex engine management - I only fly Soviet, so the experience feels incomplete as of now without temperamental engines and flying with one eye on the target and the other all over the instruments. The damage model is a close second.

 

By the time I get a good rig going Battle of Moscow should be out, I think I will start from there for chronology's sake (and because in all 1946 campaigns I get my best results in the MiG-3 somehow - probably because if I don't fly my best, it simply does me in).

 

Kissklas, I will heed your advice then and start hoarding for parts new and used alike to put a rig together that will withstand Il-2 in strong settings. The old machine will live until then. Great tips, seriously. Looking forward to joining the action once I can!

 

I'll keep my eyes open to components and such, I figure the Max. settings hardware thread is a good place to get some references.

 

Dakpilot, I have actually - the results fell short, which motivated me to ask here This thing used to run RoF back in 2010 moderately well in medium-low settings, but 5 years of upgrades made it unplayable (unless I set the graphics down to Chuck Yeager's Air Combat-style, and even then it's a barely playable slideshow).

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

• GPU: 1024 Mb+, GeForce GTX 260+/Radeon HD5850+ (GT120, 1GB - Pass, I believe?)

 

The GT120 is a 512mb GPU from my understanding though your HP spec sheet says otherwise. The GT120 is also significantly lower spec than a GTX260 (nearly a 100% gain in performance for the GTX260... [http://www.hwcompare.com/1768/geforce-gt-130-vs-geforce-gtx-260/ - The GT130 is the most comparable model])... Even if you met the 1GB VRAM requirement the chip itself is still under-spec for the simulator.

 

I second Dak's suggestion but if ROF doesn't run nominally on your hardware it is almost certain you will have a similar experience with BOS.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Space_Ghost

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I've been cheated by HP 6 years on then (although I had my suspicions) I'll get some info together and probably post here later down the line once I have a better idea of what I want to/can buy for the new rig. Thanks everyone for the suggestions and advice, hope to provide a slightly maneuvering target for you guys to practice deflection shots on once I can

[Dakpilot]

Have a quick read of this thread for some good advice when considering building a new rig

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/17414-amd-build/

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Thanks for the link. From what I gathered there and elsewhere, the 'essential' package would be:

• Intel i5 4460 (+thermal paste)
• NVidia GTX960
• 8GB RAM
• MoBo, PSU, coolers that support it
• A case that fits

Is this a build that does the trick? I was thinking to borrow the DVD reader and HDD from the oldie, to keep the price down.

[Dakpilot]

While the i5 4460 was/is a great value/performance CPU, it is now a couple of generations old, I would consider waiting for September when the new range Intel  66/6700 series launches, and see what transpires, maybe there will be bargains from the other 2015 year CPU's available'

 

maybe a discounted i5 4690 could be found for a very good price, was only $32 more than 4460 at release

 

But then the i5 4690K is only another $30 and is very overclockable certainly giving you more than enough value for the extra performance....

 

See how things can escalate LOL  

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[kissklas]

• NVidia GTX960

 I would recommend the GTX970 over the 960 if the wallet allows. The price jump isn't too bad, and it does get you a fair bit of extra performance. Especially if you plan to get VR or a screen with higher resolution (than 1080p) in the future.

 

Best,

Klas

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Dakpilot, thanks for the tip, I'll wait until September then. As a matter of fact I have no prospect of putting this together before Christmas, and only a slight chance of doing so then. Let September bring next gen processors for the eager, and cheap second best discounts for the needy

 

Klas, I'll consider it - I've read wonders about the difference indeed, but I'm running a 'splendid' 1280 x 1024 screen - GREAT for SA, having to look around to find the ASI and RPM gauges made scanning all over the place second nature - and I have little prospect to change it since the PC will be replaced first. Plus, whenever the time does come I will surely not go over 1080p - space is precious.

 

On top of it all, I'm living in Sweden (hello neighbour!) so the prices as you probably know make upgrades quite a hit. I'm thinking of ordering the stuff from German or British stores to keep the costs lower, and going second hand whenever possible and reasonable (that being said, I've not come across anything like that). My goal was to keep this below 5000kr if possible and 6000kr for sure ($590-700 in USD), which is quite a mission up here. Thanks for the help

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I think I found the set where to get most of the parts, and within the budget so far. BUT the one element I haven't gotten down is... the motherboard. From what I have seen, the MSI H81-P33 fits Intel's compatibility. The MSI H81-P33, a Mini-ATX version of it, is available here for a better price, and I won't need the extra space I believe - I assume it should work as well, no?

[kissklas]

I checked it out briefly, and I would recommend you to go for a slightly better one. Maybe if you can find one that supports more than 16gb of RAM. You do sacrifice the possibility to upgrade much in the future by going for a Mini ATX card. I would, since it is already a stationary PC, go for a normal ATX card with room for more memory ++. (And loads of USB ports for all the flight sim parts:p Just had to add a PCI with more USBs myself!)

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Thanks a lot for the tip, you probably saved me from having to get a PCI for that same reason I might just go with the regular H81 then because I don't think the RAM should be an issue. From what I've read, 8GB does the trick well for BoS for now, and it should be a while until 16GB starts trailing behind. By then it is possible that the processor and GPU and etc. will be outdated too and it will be time to overhaul it entirely again. The main reason is to keep it within the budget though

[kissklas]

You should compare the amount of USBs between the mini and the atx, just to be sure there is a difference. But the fact that you get more than 1 PCI slot is anyways a good thing. On the memory, the main thing I guess is the amount of channels. I think both H81 and H81M only has dual channel ram. But then again, not sure how much it has to say in BoS at the moment.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

You should compare the amount of USBs between the mini and the atx, just to be sure there is a difference. But the fact that you get more than 1 PCI slot is anyways a good thing. On the memory, the main thing I guess is the amount of channels. I think both H81 and H81M only has dual channel ram. But then again, not sure how much it has to say in BoS at the moment.

 

Do keep in mind that USB hubs are pretty affordable and you can find them in the bargain bin at your local hardware retailer a lot of the time.

 

I just picked up a 7-port hub for free - all I had to do was build a power cable for the unit.

 

7-ports at 5v 3a powers all of my flight gear, my phone/tablet, memory sticks or whatever else I come up with... Totally worth it.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Space_Ghost

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Thanks for the considerations.

 

From research, the H81 only supports dual channel indeed so a 16GB maximum. That should be enough on BoS for now at least. That being said, DCS World is setting its recommended settings right at 16GB which is a little intimidating.

 

I think the ASUS Z97-P gives a good compromise and quality too I believe? The price is OK, and it comes with 8 USB slots too, which solves that issue.

[kissklas]

The Z97-P seems like a much better choice, gaming wise. Also it seems to have 19 pin connectors for front panels and what not:)

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Seems that way indeed. The last thing missing is choosing an OS now, Windows 7, 8 or 10... But I think by the time I have the thing down there should be a clearer picture on the pros, cons and general performance of Win10 I suppose - plus bug fixes and whatnot. Thanks a lot for the help

[kissklas]

I guess all of them are still upgradable, so you get Win10 anyway:) Can't say I've had any problems with WIn10 so far. Good performance, and it supports DX12. A few random crashes, but I had those in 7 as well.

 

What GPU did you end up with? Let me know how the build goes:)

 

Lycka till med din dator!

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Thanks for the review, I guess if it CTDs with both 7 and 10 it's better to just move on. I use a Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS so it's only one peripheral to screw up!

I'm going with the GTX 960 after all, I have little prospects of going any larger than 1920x1080. Any bigger and it doesn't fit the table. Change the table and the sofa doesn't fit. Too expensive to buy the GPU, the new monitor, the table and the sofa. Bloody Swedish apartments.

Tack, jag kommer!

Edited September 22, 2015 by Lucas_From_Hell

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Update #1

I'd like to report Dakpilot for inciting consumerism and convincing me to order a 4690K after all. I bagged one on Amazon.fr for $220 (210 euros). Now my Christmas gift is sorted for sure

 

Tip for any prospective fellow European looking for PC parts, I went on Pricerunner.de then picked the tab that includes international sellers. They pointed me to a French Amazon sale and voilà, 4690K for only 20 more than a 4460.

 

The project as it stands:

•  Intel i5 4460  i5 4690K
• NVidia GTX960
• 8GB RAM
• Z97, PSU, coolers
• A case that fits

 

 

[Dakpilot]

Great stuff

 

Now I will start a campaign suggesting that the correct 'balance' for the 4690K would actually be a GTX970

 

We all know how important balance is in life..

 

And January sales are coming soon 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I'll see, I'll see There's time, for sure

[Ala13_Kike]

I agree Dakpilot,

If can help you Lucas, my PC specs are:

 

- I5 4690k with 1.2 vocre / 4500ghz per core

- MSI GTX970

- Noctua cooler with 2 fans (if you'll do OC, pay for a good CPU cooler)

- Another 7 fans in my cabinet

- 4 hard discs, 2 SDD and 2 mechanics HDD

 

And a lot of hardware in my USB, X52pro + rudders pedals + wiimote + sound system + trackir clip + etc...etc...

 

With 620w PSU is enough for this system. If you can, better a modular PSU 80+ or higher, if possible.

 

About hard disc, for the SO I have a very cheaper SDD of 60gb (30€ more or less), and another SDD of 256gb for 4 or 5 games, all flight sims that I have (DCS World, Il2 BoS, RoF, Clod, etc..), and one or two games, like Elite Dangerous, Skyrim, Fallout 4...not more.

 

The OS (W10) with my bad SDD, start and work very fast, with a price very cheaper.

And all flight sims in the other SDD (100€ more or less), start too very fast, and the loads that all games need goes very fast too.

 

The perfomance with I5-k, with a little of OC, nothing extreme, and GTX970, for me, it's a great system to play at all games that we have in the market right now, at 1080p and higher screen resolution.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Thanks for the tips, that's a lot of firepower, SuDoKu. Out of curiosity at what resolution are you running? Currently I'm rocking a wild 1280x1024 display, and if and when it's upgraded it'll be to 1920x1080, not more. With these 'ambitions' if you can even call them that, is there enough gain in the 970 to justify the price difference?

 

Of course, if budget and opportunity allow, I'll try to get a GTX970.

 

I've pondered about SSDs and decided to (at least for now) keep off them for now since loading times and such are not the top priority right now. Right now in the 'oldie' I'm keeping most stuff on an external HDD while keeping the main one more or less empty (system + important stuff that's present in both). Once the new PC is done I'm planning to stick the games in the regular HDD and everything else in the external one for good measure.

[Soarfeat]

Hey Lucas,

 

I have pretty much the same setup except Something I will add in all respect is not to skimp on a " excellent power supply ". The power supply will either make or break your nice system setup, and by a great psu it is not how much power it has but yet how clean the power it delivers is. I would recommend nothing less than a gold rated psu and would try to get one that has the Super Flower components ( Seasonic, some EVGA and some Rosewill psu's have them as well as some others ) Johnnyguru is a great site for unbiased reviews for psu's   http://www.jonnyguru.com/index.php.

Also pcpartspicker is a site I have used to find the best prices for stuff  https://pcpartpicker.com/

Have fun !!!    --sf-- 

[Ala13_Kike]

I play at 1200p, ultra preset, AA 4x, 4x of distance of vision, no HDR or SSAO.

 

But I can play too, and very smooth, using DSR system, at the same configuration, but applying 1600p of screen resolution...and no problem with MIN FPS. And using AA2x in this case, for me has the same result that use AA 4x. In this case I have one little problem to see the enemy contacts, but it's possible to solve changing the DSR factor

 

If you screen will be 1080p, your situation it's better. With GTX970 you can manage higher screen resolution without problems.

If you need plus information, or the result in Il2 BoS playing at 1080p with my PC, tell me, no problem for me to do this and explain the result.

 

+1 about the SoarFeat comment

This is money well invested, always

Edited December 3, 2015 by SuDoKu

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I see I have joined the 4690K mafia 

 

Thanks for the information, appreciate it.

 

Sudoku, on either 1080/1200/1600p, can you tell me if at any time the 970 (or the 4690K for that matter) struggles at all? I know Dakpilot posted somewhere in this section that he was running it at 4K or close to it with good results, but I'm curious to see how the combo would perform in the situations I'll probably use it for.

 

Soarfeat, I'll keep that in mind. From most wattage calculators I've tried this rig shouldn't need more than 500W to run smoothly, so a high-end 500W PSU should do the trick, correct?

 

To leave room for possibility and opportunity I'll probably get everything else first and leave the GPU for last. 970 prices here are high so far but as said before January is coming and there should be some good sales in sight.

[Ala13_Kike]

I see I have joined the 4690K mafia 

 

Thanks for the information, appreciate it.

 

Sudoku, on either 1080/1200/1600p, can you tell me if at any time the 970 (or the 4690K for that matter) struggles at all? I know Dakpilot posted somewhere in this section that he was running it at 4K or close to it with good results, but I'm curious to see how the combo would perform in the situations I'll probably use it for.

 

Soarfeat, I'll keep that in mind. From most wattage calculators I've tried this rig shouldn't need more than 500W to run smoothly, so a high-end 500W PSU should do the trick, correct?

 

To leave room for possibility and opportunity I'll probably get everything else first and leave the GPU for last. 970 prices here are high so far but as said before January is coming and there should be some good sales in sight.

I have no perfomance problems playing

Only one advice, remember that the screen and his specs will affect directly at the hardware that you will need. For example, lower dothpich in your new screen affect in a lower AA filter and maybe one gtx970 can be excesive, one R9 3xx will be the same and cheaper, or one gtx960 can be an excellent option

if you want, start your new proyect from your screen selection and his specs. Maybe you do not need one GTX970.

About the CPU, Intel K if you will do OC, with a good psu and cooler. If not, go to the I5 with H97 chipset (or Z97 to have better CPU upgrades possibilities), and the best graphic card that you can pay

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Interesting considerations. Well, my plan is to upgrade monitor only when the current one breaks or starts acting up (for reference, it's an EIZO L568 bought in February), and I don't have big needs or ambitions. I used to run a neat little 2009 Acer 27" monitor at 1920x1080 (can't remember the model unfortunately) but it got smashed while moving about two years ago, my idea is to just go back to that and settle for it for the next two or three years at least.

 

With this in mind, is the GTX 970 worth it, or should I look into the R9 series (I know nothing about it to be honest, everyone seems to have gone NVidia) or even GTX 960?

 

I already bought the 4690K for a really good price (see above) and I'm planning to get the Z97 for two reasons: one is overclocking once the need arises, two because the price difference here is actually within $15-25 usually so there's no point in saving that up now to have to replace it in a year or two.

[Dakpilot]

If you are inteding to run at 1280 x 1024 resolution for a few years then a GTX960 would probably be quite adequate

 

However I would consider the 4GB version which could give you the option of using DSR to increase visual quality and BoS does seem to be getting more Vram hungry with each 'new' feature added

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I was thinking of the 4GB version indeed, the price difference here is some $20 so worth the difference (even though the benefits by most accounts are marginal in most cases).

 

From what I've gathered around these forums, the GTX960-4 should be able to run 1080p on high (probably not Ultra, right?) settings with reasonable frame rates, so then I would have a bit of a buffer until I get a GPU to match the new screen. Is this estimation correct, considering the state of the Il-2 engine as of today?

[Ace_Pilto]

OMG...

 

Use it as a doorstop, it should be heavy enough.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

You know, while you mentioned it as a joke I can actually remember a time a door swung because of the wind and knocked the PC over while I was making room for it, it's pretty light - great for moving, not so great for handling 2015 software

[Fishbed64]

I was thinking of the 4GB version indeed, the price difference here is some $20 so worth the difference (even though the benefits by most accounts are marginal in most cases).

 

From what I've gathered around these forums, the GTX960-4 should be able to run 1080p on high (probably not Ultra, right?) settings with reasonable frame rates, so then I would have a bit of a buffer until I get a GPU to match the new screen. Is this estimation correct, considering the state of the Il-2 engine as of today?

I have currently almost exactly the same setup you chose,i5 4690k OC 4,4ghz, Asus z97p,8gb ram and GTX960 this setup runs il2 bos just great on 1080p 4xAA high settings,overclocking i5 from base 3,5 ghz to 4,4 give me big boost in il2 BOS...so you should do the same,...also dont consider GTX970 if you are on the budget because that give you basically nothing in terms of performance against GTX960 in il2 BOS.    

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Good to hear, it's always nice when someone has the same rig in practice What kind of cooling are you running there, out of curiosity? Also, what is the performance decrease if you switch graphics to Ultra? Thanks for the info

[Fishbed64]

Yes i have this cooler https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/SilentiumPC/Grandis_XE1236/it is very good and quiet,other than that i have this GTX960  http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5575#ov which i also recommended my oc is 1500mhz core/8000mem here is my 3dmark http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/9615267? ,...i believe it runs basically the same fps on ULTRA ,..BOS is extremely CPU dependent GTX960 is just more than enough for BOS even on ultra sets.