Need help with runway and landing issues

[[RG]Flanker1985]

I am not sure if I am the only one who is having this problem. But I need help with landing.
First of all, we (me and my friends) can hardly see the runway from afar. It is very hard to line up my self from afar. How can the runway be white? That means it is covered with snow. How can they let their runway be covered with snow? That's some serious hazard. Don't they have people to clean the runway?

Secondly, it seems that this game is very different compare to the COD. I can rarely land it right for some reason. My plane always bounce off the ground multiple times before I can land. OK, I am not a novice here, even in hardcore DCS, I can fly in parallel with the runway and at the end of it, do a 180 degree turn and land my plane perfectly. But I can't do it here. Have I done anything wrong?
In this game, the only hope for me is to line myself up from far away. However, due to the reason I stated earlier, I couldn't see the run way. 

Please help, thanks in advance.

[SharpeXB]

Do it exactly like these guys tell you:

 

 

 

And it will turn out like this:

 

 

If you bounce excessively it's because your airspeed is too high, you're coming down too fast and don't hit on all three points. Watch exactly what they tell you in the films.

Edited August 25, 2015 by SharpeXB

[TP_Jacko]

For the colour of the runway you can modify the gamma correction ion the config file to 0.7 or even 0.6 which may help.

Get rid of motion blur in the camera settings in case you have it working.

 

For the landing I think its the descent rate that needs looking at ( the LaGG does drop with the power off ) too fast and you will break gear and wings tail unite etc etc. But its a learning curve we are all working through.

 

Then once you are on the runway use brakes gently and rudder to control the danger of a ground loop and come to a gentle stop.

[Dakpilot]

Have a read through this thread lots of  advice

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14473-i-have-attempted-take-and-landingcalm-and-normal-mission-27/

 

Also here

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/13741-landing-help/?hl=+lag

 

The Lagg was noted historically  to be quite hard to handle during the landing phase it also had a very long ground roll compared to many of its  contemporaries, this led to many accidents during training and transition especially on poorly prepared fields.

 

The key to landing in BoS is a very stable  (correctly trimmed) approach at correct speeds, paying careful attention to  descent rates during the flare, get used to the aircrafts attitude (AoA) when on the ground, as this is the same attitude you want at the end of a correctly performed  flare, coinciding with stall speed at touch down. Once successful at training circuits  a more 'front line' combat approach can be practiced

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Y-29.Silky]

The Lagg was noted historically  to be quite hard to handle

 

To add on to this, I once read that the Bf-109's lost more aircraft to landing, than actual combat.

> The Yugoslav pilots were not happy with the Bf 109 after several landing accidents due to the Messerschmitt's narrow landing gear

 

I'll be damned that aircraft takes more concentration on landing than aiming at a Russian.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Y-29.Silky

[Finkeren]

About seeing the runway against the snow: Yes it is quite hard, and it should be, because the runways were in fact mostly covered by snow. In winter conditions on the Eastern Front it was practically imposible to keep runways free from ice and snow, hence the many planes fitted with skids. It was indeed a hazard, so often they would take off and land on open snow covered fields and frozen lakes where posible.

What I try to do when landing is always do an overfly of the field to be certain of the orientation of the runway relative to nearby landmarks to male it easier to align when I turn around.

[[RG]Flanker1985]

Thanks guys.
I think I found about LaGG-3 is that after land, it will stop by doing a 360 degree turn on it's own and I can't doing anything about that. Is that historically correct?

I am glad you mentioned about the land mark. For some reason I can't use my map in campaign. It is really hard to find the land marks.

[Wulf]

 Don't they have people to clean the runway?

 

 

 

   

[=38=Tatarenko]

Thanks guys.

I think I found about LaGG-3 is that after land, it will stop by doing a 360 degree turn on it's own and I can't doing anything about that. Is that historically correct?

 

I am glad you mentioned about the land mark. For some reason I can't use my map in campaign. It is really hard to find the land marks.

 

Press the O (o not zero) button

[TP_Jacko]

Thanks guys.

I think I found about LaGG-3 is that after land, it will stop by doing a 360 degree turn on it's own and I can't doing anything about that. Is that historically correct?

 

I don't know if its historically correct but you need enough power to keep rudder authority to stop the 360 before it starts there is a good youtube vid on this will try to find it. But you need to look fofward and stop any slight movement you see with a quick use of the rudder.

[BraveSirRobin]

Thanks guys.

I think I found about LaGG-3 is that after land, it will stop by doing a 360 degree turn on it's own and I can't doing anything about that. Is that historically correct?

 

During the rollout you have to increase the throttle a little while braking until you have rolled to a stop.  Doing that allows you to use the rudder to prevent a ground loop.  If you set the throttle to idle you will ground loop almost every time.

[ACG_KaiLae]

Thanks guys.

I think I found about LaGG-3 is that after land, it will stop by doing a 360 degree turn on it's own and I can't doing anything about that. Is that historically correct?

 

I am glad you mentioned about the land mark. For some reason I can't use my map in campaign. It is really hard to find the land marks.

 

LA-5 does the same thing. You have to keep the throttle up to maintain rudder authority. Even if you know what to do, it's very easy to spin the SOB, watch online videos where someone lands one, it likely ends in a spin.

[Bullets]

I have never understood how people constantly ground loop the La5 or Lagg..   Proper rudder control and braking can keep you going straight.. Never had to use throttle to control it when coming to a stop. I think people are just landing too fast/slow and not using enough rudder... As speed decreases control effectiveness decreases too so don't be afraid to use more exaggerated inputs. 

 P.s. BSR I idle throttle both on landing every time and no ground loop here 

Edited August 25, 2015 by Bullets

[=LD=Penshoon]

I have never understood how people constantly ground loop the La5 or Lagg..   Proper rudder control and braking can keep you going straight.. Never had to use throttle to control it when coming to a stop. I think people are just landing too fast/slow and not using enough rudder... As speed decreases control effectiveness decreases too so don't be afraid to use more exaggerated inputs. 

 P.s. BSR I idle throttle both on landing every time and no ground loop here 

I think many people set a way to big curve on their rudder axis. Sure it will make small rudder deflections easier that you mostly use while in flight but will mess up your deflection accuracy in the middle and max range of the axis that you use more when the plane is on the ground. 

[Bullets]

I agree with you Penshoon... I have an almost straight rudder axis line.. 

[BraveSirRobin]

 P.s. BSR I idle throttle both on landing every time and no ground loop here 

 

I have no idea how you're able to do that, because I ground loop every time if I don't increase the throttle a little.

[Bullets]

Well I will agree with you the nose doesn't stay straight when rolling. It want's to spin left or right, however I find when using appropriate rudder inputs you can keep that nose straight and come to a stop without spinning! 

Oh also if you are having trouble seeing the runway compared to the snow, turn the gamma down a bit!  

[indiaciki]

Knowing the RWY orientation helps. Write it down. Most RWYs are 27/9. You also have to be near and low to spot the airfield. Stall the aircraft at flare but never flare too high. You bounce. Runways are very wide so maybe you misjudge your altitude at flare. Happened to me. I'm still flying patterns every day.

I have no idea how you're able to do that, because I ground loop every time if I don't increase the throttle a little.

I only ground loop in russian planes. I never ground looped in 109s or Ju 87 and I landed at idle very often.

Edited August 25, 2015 by indiaciki

[BraveSirRobin]

Well I will agree with you the nose doesn't stay straight when rolling. It want's to spin left or right, however I find when using appropriate rudder inputs you can keep that nose straight and come to a stop without spinning! 

 

I have no problem keeping it straight until the aircraft has almost rolled to a stop.  Then it loops  Every friggin time.  So I give it a little throttle and it does not loop.  

I only ground loop in russian planes. I never ground looped in 109s or Ju 87 and I landed at idle very often.

 

It's only a problem for me in the Lagg.

[Bullets]

Just made a horrendously rushed video demonstrating the 0% throttle landing.. Came in much to fast and high (Hence the crazy sideslip) but the touchdown was pretty smooth  ... 

p.s. Sorry for the music I was playing it as I was flying so it was recorded by my software 

Edited August 25, 2015 by Bullets

[Willy__]

Almost ran wide on the runaway . But it was a nice 3-point landing, nice and slow, thats why there was little to no bounce.

 

Anyways, name of the music/artist please ? 

[SharpeXB]

I think neither the LaGG or La5 have locking tail wheels. That adds to the challenge there. Hold the stick fully back, that helps.

[Bullets]

Yeah that happens with an approach speed of 240kph hehe   I landed waaay to fast with very little flaps because as I said I was rushing and just trying to get it on the ground so I could demonstrate rolling without looping   And the song is PTSD by Yoe Mase 

Edited August 25, 2015 by Bullets

[SharpeXB]

demonstrating the 0% throttle landing..

 

You need a certain amount of throttle input to control your decent rate. The MC.202 has a VVI and you can see it's about 150MPS. Right when you get to the flare point the throttle is closed otherwise you'll just float down the runway too far.

On the final approach your plane should be about level, with the gunsight on the horizon and not pointed down at the end of the runway.

[Bullets]

I am not saying this is how I land normally    I needed 0% throttle on that decent because I was way to fast and high. I was demonstrating the 0% throttle on the ground! 

[indiaciki]

my only observation is that BOS aircraft somehow seem to float forever when flaring. It's either too little drag or they are modeled too light in proprtion to their weight. Compared to DCS. Anybody elese noticed that?

Edited August 25, 2015 by indiaciki

[Bullets]

my only observation is that BOS aircraft somehow seem to float forever when flaring. It's either too little drag or they are modeled too light in proprtion to their weight. Anybody elese noticed that?

 

You sure you are not just pulling back more during the flare? I thought it was pretty well modelled none of the aircraft glide stupidly well (Like the pup in rof which was basically a glider  ) 

[indiaciki]

No, I noticed it wihie flying the Ju 87 which should have a huge amount of drag. I have no problem with landing her. But there's a difference with the 109 BOS and DCS (I know the K was heavier). It's not a real issue just an observation.In ROF i noticed the same thing landing the camel. She's a glider

Edited August 25, 2015 by indiaciki

[Bullets]

Hmmm can't speak for the Ju87 because I don't fly her much. However when landing are you sure you are not just experiencing ground effect? It is surprisingly prominent IRL and in-game as it should be. (imo) 

[indiaciki]

Not sure it is modeled. I was judging my altitude wrongly because of the very wide runways thus flared too high for a long time.. in Rof and DCS you see grass that you can't see in winter BOS. Couriously if you have a full tank or even payloads she' ll settle properly. Try flying with min fuel. The aircraft seem to have no weight at all. And all of them are pretty heavy compared to GA. There is definitly a drag issue in BOS since a lot of people fly combat at high speed and flaps deployed. It seem tha flaps generate way mor lift than drag. Maybe this is the problem. Lift to drag flaps issue.

Edited August 25, 2015 by indiaciki

[indiaciki]

JU 87 deadstick landing. Max fuel, armor plates. Cutting engine on downwind at 200km/h, 1000m alt. (flaps TO), Flaps full at 800m in turn to final. Final at 190km/h 400m alt. Max fuel, full flaps, armor plates. 3,835 kg + plates... Couldn't feather prop. So more drag.

 

hm... what do you think?

 

Edited August 26, 2015 by indiaciki

[Hot_Rod]

Hi HarbingerFlanker1985,

 

If you'd like to practice landings on an airfield that is plainly visible from a distance, try the Lapino or Stepnoy airfields on the Lapino map.  They apparently have well disciplined snow removal crews on hand!   

[indiaciki]

yes lapino is greaz as is Verh Ahuba (you'll se burning Stilngrad to the weste and great woods etc neat the runway for orintation.

Hi HarbingerFlanker1985,

 

If you'd like to practice landings on an airfield that is plainly visible from a distance, try the Lapino or Stepnoy airfields on the Lapino map.  They apparently have well disciplined snow removal crews on hand!   

 

At lapino the forrests are dissapering an reapearing. that's very annoying

[SharpeXB]

Every time I land in a flight sim this what I'm thinking

 

[indiaciki]

Every time I land in a flight sim this what I'm thinking

 

 

I hought it was all about landing????????????

[SharpeXB]

Striker! You're too low!

 

Naw. For the glide slope think of yourself intersecting a sloping plane that rises up from the runway at about 3 degrees. So it's easier to correct if you're too low, just fly level until you intersect it and then just reduce power and start sinking. Diving down on the glide slope results in extra speed you need to get rid of.

Doing a modern or civilian sim where you've got instruments to show you the slope is helpful, of course this aid is not on these WWII planes.

[indiaciki]

Like ILS???

[SharpeXB]

Like ILS???

Yes. Here's a really boring video from another sim where nobody gets shot at. But the glide slope indicator is the little dot on the left side of the HSI, which is the lower middle instrument in the six main ones. The vertical speed indicator is just to te right of it. So I'm flying level until that dot drops down to the center and then reduce power to control the decent along it, keeping the vertical speed at 500 FPS.

Edited August 26, 2015 by SharpeXB

[indiaciki]

X-plane? Love it. Seneca II favorite plane. Thing is they are tricycle gear planes. Taildragers are more challangling. Glide slope doesn' t really help. Grass and stuff do. Visual orientation a couple of meters above ground as you flare.

Edited August 26, 2015 by indiaciki

[indiaciki]

I think that wwII planes had a much steeper glide slope then GA.