Normal v Expert: A Different Perspective

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Normal v Expert:

 

I’ve seen a number of diatribes and purists over the last couple of years decrying the normal servers. Most often these experts howl that expert servers are the only way to enjoy the game……and it is a game. They will tell you the people flying in the normal servers are somehow enjoying the game less, are less skilled and occasionally are pretty harsh about the guys, “over there.” To them it is some sort of a personal affront that normal servers even exist. Accordingly, the only way to have fun is to fly, “full real,” or “full expert,” or some other rubbish. There is a thread running right now with this cock and bull assessment. Don’t you believe it.

 

The normal servers are a ton of fun. I daresay more fun than the expert servers depending on what you are looking for. The combat is easily accessible and results are often quick whether you have success or failure. The pilots, executing individual maneuvering, are often excellent and a challenge. Many of the best pilots on the normal server are excellent BECAUSE they play both types of servers – as I and my friends do. What they are not, however, is anything approaching realistic. There is far less teamwork involved here.

 

The expert servers, on the other hand, are challenging. The engine management is a greater workload (for the VVS anyway), spotting and ID’ing are much tougher but doable and navigation can be difficult. The pilots here usually have the most experience so the overall quality of opponents is higher. Tactics and teamwork is a must.

 

I fly both with a similar success rate in either type of server. None of the servers are in their final configurations yet and admins are constantly tweaking them to find the best settings for the largest number of people.

 

The problem is in trying to equate EXPERT with FUN. The term, I think, these so called purists are looking for is SATISFYING. Flying in the expert servers is more satisfying because it is more difficult, is closer to a true simulation and getting home can be more challenging due to distance, CEM, SA and navigation. If this is what is fun for you then it is absolutely fun. I enjoy it immensely when I have the time.

 

If this is not what you are looking for then perhaps it is not fun at all. If you are an adrenaline junky, like the mano a mano type fight, are coming from a gaming background or just don’t have the time to navigate for forty minutes round trip for a two minute bombing run or dogfight, then the normal servers are tons of fun.

 

It’s not a dichotomy. Yelling at people who don’t enjoy or don’t have time for your style of play is not growing the fan base or doing ANYONE any good. There is room for every style of play here. Stop with the absolutes and belittling people for HAVING FUN!

 

For the rookies and the guys flying normal, find your bliss in the game where you feel happiest and don’t let the Negative Nancies get you down. It may be in a normal server or expert may be the best spot for you. Just remember to not confuse the terms fun, realistic and satisfying. 

Edited August 24, 2015 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[SharpeXB]

I don't think "Expert" server necessarily has to correspond to full-mission type missions, ones that don't air start for quick action. There's definitely room for "Expert Dogfight". Don't really ever see that much though.

[URUAker]

Allow me hijack the thread for a question. I´m slowly coming back to BOS, and i like to fly full real but i´m having a hard time navigating without a map, i like to fly Jabo missions but never find the targets, or it takes me so much time that when i find them the enemys are already on my tail.

How do you navigate? are you using printed maps? Or just from memory. Its even harder with the sun high and all the white glow

[SharpeXB]

Allow me hijack the thread for a question. I´m slowly coming back to BOS, and i like to fly full real but i´m having a hard time navigating without a map, i like to fly Jabo missions but never find the targets, or it takes me so much time that when i find them the enemys are already on my tail.

How do you navigate? are you using printed maps? Or just from memory. Its even harder with the sun high and all the white glow

At least the Wings of Libery server gives you some nav icons when you're in range of an airfield makes sense sort of...

But really just using landmarks with practice you can learn to find your way around with no trouble.

 

There's an app somewhere on this forum which lets you calculate actual flight paths too.

Edited August 24, 2015 by SharpeXB

[Sokol1]

 

 

How do you navigate?

 

Use the plane compass, to go somewhere make a "flight plan" and follow then.

 

And turn off * these (GPS) icons on full map - follow icons don't teach you anything.

 

*Assign the same key for bring the full map (I use M) for hide "HUD", so map on HUD - and icons off, map off, HUD on (case you use this).

Edited August 24, 2015 by Sokol1

[SharpeXB]

They should add signs on the train stations with the city name. That's an historically authentic way pilots can figure out where they are if they're lost ;-)

[BlitzPig_EL]

As luck would have it I got a ride and some stick time in a real Stearman a couple weeks ago.  My first time flying a real stick aircraft, and first open cockpit, and about 20 years since my last time at the controls of any real aircraft.

 

Where am I going with this you may ask?

 

Well, anyone that calls this, or any other air combat title a simulation and thinks that "full real" or "expert" approaches reality in any way is out of their mind or delusional.

 

It's just another way to play a video game, and that's all.  Nothing about this is remotely "real". 

 

If you love simming, don't go flying for real.  

 

It will totally spoil your "sim" experience.

 

Oh, and no dancing all over the pedals to get the thing to go straight down the taxiway either.

 

 

[TP_Jacko]

At least the Wings of Libery server gives you some nav icons when you're in range of an airfield makes sense sort of...

But really just using landmarks with practice you can learn to find your way around with no trouble.

 

There's an app somewhere on this forum which lets you calculate actual flight paths too.

 

 

I use the compass, I time how long approximately it takes to cover each 10 K grid. I select O to bring the main map  ( do use auto level to save a daft spin into the ground ) check the map for the next land mark. But ground targets are hard to spot unless you get close

[indiaciki]

I had my first contact and first flight experience in real aircraft GA single & twin since my dad flew. And I as soon I was old enough. I grew up with aircraft. It's  different in a lot of ways. In fact sims are more difficult to fly for a lot of reasons. I didn't fly VFR until I discovered ROF. X-plane and FSX are great for IFR. DSC is good at system procedures but 777 (ROF &BOS) have best FMs by far. I still think that BOS A/C are way too light. THey should be heavier.

[Sokol1]

Well, anyone that calls this, or any other air combat title a simulation and thinks that "full real" or "expert" approaches reality in any way is out of their mind or delusional.

 

 

This BS "full real" is IL-2 thing, before the CFG games use to say difficult settings.

 

I like my games (any) in the hard settings, not unlimited ammo, no invincible, no health packs, no power-ups.. is may way of "fun" and this don't has nothing with "reality". 

 

 

 

... totally spoil your "sim" experience.

 

All these dumb colorful labels "PLANE, BF109K, 10KM, 59ThSquadron, Maverick TriggerHappy" flying around spoil my "game" experience, is a No Go for these "Normal" servers, if at least was possible show only distance over planes and a dot over ground objects (as in DCS/'46) is an acceptable compromise. 

[SCG_Neun]

Allow me hijack the thread for a question. I´m slowly coming back to BOS, and i like to fly full real but i´m having a hard time navigating without a map, i like to fly Jabo missions but never find the targets, or it takes me so much time that when i find them the enemys are already on my tail.

How do you navigate? are you using printed maps? Or just from memory. Its even harder with the sun high and all the white glow

https://457bea087c33d16c46f2d007748dab4b84725851.googledrive.com/host/0BwbLWsLToYhdSXI0dlVwc1hzYmc/html/map/bos_stalingrad.html

 

It is difficult and I don't want to sound like I'm any better at it than you are....but this utility might help.  In addition...terrain features...railroad tracks...towns, bends in the river...distinct shapes...maybe that fire that's always burning just east of the river.......Wings of Liberty like Sharpe said has some assist in there, so you do actually know where you are at all times....Maybe start with that..and work your way up into the full expert settings..

Edited August 25, 2015 by JagdNeun

[indiaciki]

Great tool !

 

You might also use this as a printed map (old school):

http://www.radiofilm...e_chart_pdf.pdf

 

and this:

 

Here's a print version of the map (25 pages -  A4 - b/w) 140cm x 90cm. It's that big to be readable....

 

http://www.radiofilm...utepdfprint.pdf

 

 

 

It has distances and headings and RWY orientations for every RWY on the map

Edited August 25, 2015 by indiaciki

[Bearcat]

Great post Murf..

[voncrapenhauser]

Well, anyone that calls this, or any other air combat title a simulation and thinks that "full real" or "expert" approaches reality in any way is out of their mind or delusional. It's just another way to play a video game, and that's all. Nothing about this is remotely "real".

 

+1 agreed.

You need to feel it through the seat of the pants, when you put in an input to your controls and see and feel the results.

But however short of a full axis simulator costing millions will be the only way of getting even slightly close without actually flying.

 

IL2 simply Simulates as best as it can and is still IMO the best available Game/Sim out there and when not flying for real is great fun.

 

Nice Stearman btw.

Edited August 25, 2015 by voncrapenhauser

[BlitzPig_EL]

voncrapenhauser, it was a nicely maintained aircraft, I only wish it were mine and I could afford to feed it.

 

It was fun to pull some real G loading too.  Only 2.3G by the instrument the pilot had in his cockpit, but couple that with the open 'pit, and 100mph "breeze", it was wonderful.

 

I cannot disagree with your comments about flight simming really.  There really is no other way for us to experience air combat as such.

 

I just get tired of the elitists that insist that maximum difficulty settings are the ONLY way to play the sim, and I typically fly that way myself, when I do.

 

I just hope that everyone remembers that this is supposed to be fun, and not everyone's meaning fun is the same. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

 

I just hope that everyone remembers that this is supposed to be fun, and not everyone's meaning fun is the same. 

 

Rather my point overal, really.

[JG5_Schuck]

Ive tried 'Expert' in a Tigermoth,

damn thing felt like it was held together with Bluetac and cable ties, awesome fun!

[URUAker]

At least the Wings of Libery server gives you some nav icons when you're in range of an airfield makes sense sort of...

But really just using landmarks with practice you can learn to find your way around with no trouble.

 

There's an app somewhere on this forum which lets you calculate actual flight paths too.

 

 

Use the plane compass, to go somewhere make a "flight plan" and follow then.

 

And turn off * these (GPS) icons on full map - follow icons don't teach you anything.

 

*Assign the same key for bring the full map (I use M) for hide "HUD", so map on HUD - and icons off, map off, HUD on (case you use this).

 

 

I use the compass, I time how long approximately it takes to cover each 10 K grid. I select O to bring the main map  ( do use auto level to save a daft spin into the ground ) check the map for the next land mark. But ground targets are hard to spot unless you get close

 

 

https://457bea087c33d16c46f2d007748dab4b84725851.googledrive.com/host/0BwbLWsLToYhdSXI0dlVwc1hzYmc/html/map/bos_stalingrad.html

 

It is difficult and I don't want to sound like I'm any better at it than you are....but this utility might help.  In addition...terrain features...railroad tracks...towns, bends in the river...distinct shapes...maybe that fire that's always burning just east of the river.......Wings of Liberty like Sharpe said has some assist in there, so you do actually know where you are at all times....Maybe start with that..and work your way up into the full expert settings..

 

 

Great tool !

 

You might also use this as a printed map (old school):

http://www.radiofilm...e_chart_pdf.pdf

 

and this:

 

Here's a print version of the map (25 pages -  A4 - b/w) 140cm x 90cm. It's that big to be readable....

 

http://www.radiofilm...utepdfprint.pdf

 

 

 

It has distances and headings and RWY orientations for every RWY on the map

 

Guys thanks for all the answers and links!

I do know how to navigate from my experience with il21946 and CLOD but i´m missing the possibility to bring up the map while flying "full real" or "expert". Or am I missing something that lets you use the map in those servers?

You can calculate your hdg an time your distance but if anything gets you out of your flight plan (an enemy attacks you for example) its very hard to find my way again

[SharpeXB]

Guys thanks for all the answers and links!

I do know how to navigate from my experience with il21946 and CLOD but i´m missing the possibility to bring up the map while flying "full real" or "expert". Or am I missing something that lets you use the map in those servers?

You can calculate your hdg an time your distance but if anything gets you out of your flight plan (an enemy attacks you for example) its very hard to find my way again

"O" brings up the full map in Expert. Pressing "I" turns on and off your own plane icon (which shouldn't show up on Expert...) Edited August 26, 2015 by SharpeXB

[Dakpilot]

Use 'autolevel' to avoid unfortunate 'spins' while looking at the 'O' map when lost (simulates holding stick between legs  )

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[SharpeXB]

^Right!

[Ranger]

HerrMurf,

      You are right on with your post. I have over 10,000hrs in Pistons (multi/single) Turbo-Props, and Jets (3 type ratings,) and <50hrs in tail draggers. I enjoy this sim, and others like it.

However, the  "realism/expert" that you spoke of so eloquently is spot on...just their impressions.

 

Carry On

Edited August 27, 2015 by Ranger

[Bearcat]

Use 'autolevel' to avoid unfortunate 'spins' while looking at the 'O' map when lost (simulates holding stick between legs  )

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

Haha.. I never looked at that that way but you are right..

[URUAker]

Lol thanks guys things are going to be much more fun now!

[voncrapenhauser]

100% agree. Blitz.

 

Fun 1st.....Its not real and never will be. 

Btw I only ever pulled about 3...3.5g when spin training and found it quite uncomfortable to say the least.

Hands on in a Tiger Moth was great fun though.

 

The stearman is one of my favourite bipes tbh.

Edited August 27, 2015 by voncrapenhauser