About gameplay

[C6_lefuneste]

Here are my thoughts regarding some needs for gameplay in BoS. Maybe I may think like many others users, not only the few who are posting in forums and have more complex and technical needs.

I have a family, a work, so only few time to play. I am also a poor virtual combat pilot, even if In real life I drive ultralight plane during my free time.

Maybe some of the things I write below are keeping away beginner player from good simulation software, letting them stuck on playing War Thunder…

 

So what am I missing the most?

 

SP mode

 

 

Visibility and Icons

I have a field of view at least 5 times smaller in my screen than in real life. So everything is 5x smaller also. Something must be used in order to counterbalance this handicap: Labels.

Of course, purists here on forums will yell against it. Not realistic. They can do without it. But seeing things 5 times smaller is not realistic eithers, and most beginner players will not spent enough time to be able to fight efficiently without labels.

Unfortunately, labels are not well implemented (like in most of sims). They are visible above cockpit frame, through clouds, haze, they do not take into account size and aspect angle of object,…

The solution should be “smart labels” which may have more realistic visibility behaviour.  In order to just compensate the smaller size of objects and allows the player to have the same amount of information he will have with a real life FOV, but without giving him “eye of god” view and cheating capabilities.

 

Game to Player communication

This is also an aspect very important for beginners, but often ignored by developers and mission designers. Often in single missions or multiplayer sessions I was not sure of what have I to do and where I have to go.

There is no so much option to communicate with player:  messages (sound&subtitles), flightpath, annotation on maps, kneeboard.

In BoS we have subtitles but if we do not noticed the messages in the few seconds it has appeared it is lost…so there should be a “log” of messages and also the feature by default to add drawings in the map with the messages. So there will no more questions about what to do and where to go after the message.

The drawing may be displayed for a time only, and also linked to an object: “escort this plane”, “destroy it”,… they should look like hand written annotation on map.

The GCI is also very poor: in every war, there is a ground network of lookout, giving information to a command center which transfer them to operational units.  This should be simulated by a kind of MCU drawing on map informations on planes flying above them. (lien)

Another thing is the ability to modify the flight book and annotate the map. See NobbyNobbs wonderful tool: it should be included in game, especially for multiplayer. We need tools to allow modification of flight plan and easy computations of navigation parameters: headings, time of flight,…

 

AI

I do not know sims with a good AI, this a difficult subject for all games. But there are things that should be improved. Gunner behaviour is very poor. Fighter cannot attack bomber efficiently. Group logic is very weak: I do not have the feeling that fighters are working by pairs; they do not use the most appropriate tactics regarding their plane capabilities or historical usage, even for attack on ground targets. Radio communications are very poor, so we cannot compensate AI flaws by wise orders…

If only we can for example

• request to a part of our flight to provide a high cover or to flank a bomber formation,  

• be included in a ground pattern attack,  for example circle of death by sturmovick

Re-playability of missed mission (not career).

I will not write about career because most have already been said and 777 is working on it. By design they do not have re-playability, which is not a so bad choice if you play short mission.

But some, like me want to play nice campaign like "veteranen" or "Pitomnick",  takeoff and land for each mission,  practice navigation…And if they are poor skilled like me, the gameplay is: “spent most of your free time to navigate to be shot down just after meeting the enemy” !

It's ok for the first time you play the mission, but then you will have to redo the same thing, and again, and again...Very time consumming...

Of course you will tell me to practice (that I do) but so simming will mean “quick mission” training or “navigation followed by death” ? Very frustrating, indeed.

The ideal thing will be to have savegame/loading choice. But, as I know there are no flight sims that implement this feature. Maybe are we practicing the only game class that may have hours length sessions and no savegame option!

A turnaround should be using autopilot and time acceleration, but 777 limited it to 2x. I understand it for career mode, but why impose it on community SP missions ? Should it be possible to make it active only for 777 career missions by a secret mechanism ?

 

MP Mode

I tried to play BoS online, and that was the worst multiplayer sessions I never had !

I will not talk about dogfight dedicated servers, they are the best way to dissuade beginner or poor pilots to move to BoS…Being a sitting duck for expert pilot is quickly boring.

I tried servers with mission objectives, but never felt so alone than in these sessions. Of course they had “expert” settings, so it was impossible to know where other player were.  One time I take off with another player, try to escort him but finally loose him in cloud. In all sessions I wandered, trying to reach locations where there should be target but finding nothing on it. I had no good idea of what have been achieved and what is still to do, no idea where it should be interesting to go to help my team to win, …

I previously had good experiences on RoF servers, especially some which mixed Bot and player. But it seems that for the moment BoS online good experience is dedicated to expert players, maybe playing together in teams. That will left a lot of player away…

I am dreaming of a mode including a living world of AI flying missions. You should take control on any AI plane, but then have to fulfill the objective of the flight. Some time you may only have the choice to take a plane to base, but at least you have an objective, and you will also be with other players which share the same mission for the flight ! If you do not want to take control of current free planes, you should register for next planned mission and wait its start as a spectator for the current actions...

A dedicated menu communication should be set up in order to communicate with the other player in flight without using voice (which may be complicated for worldwide players not sepaking the same language). You should be able to warn your teammate, request formations, cover,…Of course AI planes will react and issue orders in the same way than players.

Communication menu should be used for current flight and also escort flight.

 

So, this is a rather long post, but I feel important to share with you my concerns, I never see them written in posts.

What do you think about it ? Am I wrong by thinking it is as important to improve gameplay as adding new planes or maps in order to gain new players ?

Do you have also gameplay ideas ?

News planes and maps are coming, but what about gameplay improvement ? did I miss something ?

 

 

[SharpeXB]

For playing without the labels, make use of the "zoom" view feature. Get it set up on buttons or better yet an axis so you can use it constantly for scanning the sky in a wide FoV and quickly narrowing it as needed. You'll discover icons aren't necessary and yes they're quite unrealistic. BoS has very good detail in its graphics that allow you to see and ID other objects, about the best of any flight sim I've used along with Rise of Flight.

Having the icons visible through the aircraft is an aid for players without head tracking who otherwise might want the "virtual" or invisible cockpit mode but BoS doesn't have that. Without 6 DoF simple canopy frames can obscure all your vision which doesn't happen in reality.

Edited August 19, 2015 by SharpeXB

[SharpeXB]

 

The ideal thing will be to have savegame/loading choice. But, as I know there are no flight sims that implement this feature. Maybe are we practicing the only game class that may have hours length sessions and no savegame option!

A turnaround should be using autopilot and time acceleration, but 777 limited it to 2x. I understand it for career mode, but why impose it on community SP missions ?

I completely agree with you on this one. I think the mission length for a typical "realistic" flight sim game especially if it involves taking off and landing, is the chief obstacle to making this type of game accessible to most players. Flight sims can't have checkpoints the way all other types of games do. The ability to just save and load at will sounds nice but it also allows the player a way to just cheat their way through a mission. Most other types of games don't have this feature either. I like the way that 1CGS created the Long and Short mission types in the Campaign to address this. BoS doesn't force either on one you, it lets you choose and actually gives you more points for the Long version which is fair. There might be other ideas out there but I think that one is a pretty good solution.

I would also like the ability to just save and load a situation in BoS too though in order to make more complex SP campaigns and missions playable.

Edited August 19, 2015 by SharpeXB

[Juri_JS]

Game to Player communication

This is also an aspect very important for beginners, but often ignored by developers and mission designers. Often in single missions or multiplayer sessions I was not sure of what have I to do and where I have to go.

There is no so much option to communicate with player:  messages (sound&subtitles), flightpath, annotation on maps, kneeboard.

In BoS we have subtitles but if we do not noticed the messages in the few seconds it has appeared it is lost…so there should be a “log” of messages and also the feature by default to add drawings in the map with the messages. So there will no more questions about what to do and where to go after the message.

The drawing may be displayed for a time only, and also linked to an object: “escort this plane”, “destroy it”,… they should look like hand written annotation on map.

The GCI is also very poor: in every war, there is a ground network of lookout, giving information to a command center which transfer them to operational units.  This should be simulated by a kind of MCU drawing on map informations on planes flying above them. (lien)

.....

 

Most of this is already possible for mission builder in FMB. For example you can trigger and display text messages or simple drawings on the flight map and use ground units as observers that show planes within their radius on the map. You could even simulate guiding by ground based radar operators or artillery spotting, there are few things that can't be done in FMB.

[Dakpilot]

Lots of good points,

 

I always thought that this concept could work very well in BoS

 

http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/41828-syndicate-introducing-active-front-missions-weekdays/page-1

 

The idea to be able to spawn in as part of an AI flight starting off on an objective based mission seemed a great way for quick immersive MP flights with a point

 

Although this was not so popular in RoF this is possibly because the 'Co-op' scene was very organised and well attended

 

Being able to join a server with say one buddy and help escort an AI Bombing raid or do a fighter sweep seemed a great way for the 'less experienced' to have an interesting eventful quick mission with a purpose, without the need for full participation of a squad

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[216th_Peterla]

I also agreed on most of the comments of the OP. Sometimes when you join a server is difficult to get organized, dificult to get escort and easy to be shoot down. I like all of those but certainly most players that will try this casually will get a no so positive view of the online mode and will be difficult to get them back. Whit some of the OP sugestions this fact can be mitigated.

Edited August 19, 2015 by peterla

[Y-29.Silky]

I'm one of those "purists" and you have great ideas. I like your idea for the communication menu for MP, they already have it for your gunners, it'd be nice to have one for other players.

 

My gameplay idea... 

 

 

In multiplayer, I often have 1-3 other players in my bomber. As the pilot, I have to do everything. Fly the plane, navigation (through the bomb sight), drop the bombs, make sure the aircraft is trimmed out if I'm hit, constantly flipping between the map and bomb sight... I seriously wish another player in the bomber could be the bombardier. I read the bombardier positions in the He-111 and Pe-2, but I can't find the link anymore, I know for a fact that they weren't the pilots themselves.

[Sokol1]

The game has more labels than Mr. Maggo need... Even the word "plane" is shown in some labels (until now I don't see none "UFO")... 

 

Has Radar/GPS "plotting" planes in real time over map/GPS display...

 

Has short flight time mission in campaign and in QM, what make pointless have some save game at every 2 minutes.

 

A better - and easy to implement (already used in original il-2) is the skip time without auto-disable if enemy are near (CFS1/2 I think have this).

 

In short:

 

"And if they are poor skilled like me, the gameplay is: “spent most of your free time to navigate to be shot down just after meeting the enemy” 

 

So if I are "poor skilled" the game should by more dumbed down/gamey to compensate this?   

 

 

 

As the pilot, I have to do everything. Fly the plane, navigation (through the bomb sight), drop the bombs,

 

I don't buy this argument - common in combat flight games forum - I don't see multi-task in this because when you are done navigation (basically resumed to check map) or dropping bombs, the (BoS) "AI autopilot for level flight" (or similar automation in other games) are piloting the bomber for you.   

 

In the real He-111 in bombing run phase the pilot is a mere plane passenger, the "Kursteurung" autopilot fly the plane, and if needed the bombardier do course corrections. In the game the bombardier can do this correction (unrealistic for Pe-2, but this is... just a game). 

 

Of course the possibility to have this extra real crew (as are in CLoD) will be nice, but whit the actual few numbers of MP bomber pilots (besides pilot at all), MP bombardier/navigator will be almost non-existent... Don't justify the resources.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Sokol1

[C6_lefuneste]

The game has more labels than Mr. Maggo need... Even the word "plane" is shown in some labels (until now I don't see none "UFO")... 

I do not request more labels, but instead labels with realistic information and display condition. We have either cheating labels or nothing.

 

Has Radar/GPS "plotting" planes in real time over map/GPS display...

This is the same problem : either you have eye god vision on map, or you have nothing. Some delayed and fragmented information display on map should be more realistic.

An icon describing informations (heading, alt, ...) about the plane that have crossed the front just five minutes ago for example. As a fighter you will have to guess where it hould be now

in order to intercept it, rather than following you GPS view or having no informations !

 

Has short flight time mission in campaign and in QM, what make pointless have some save game at every 2 minutes.

The need of replay is for user made campaign like pitomnik or veteranen.

 

So if I are "poor skilled" the game should by more dumbed down/gamey to compensate this?

Otherwise you will only play the boring short missions of the campaign, because of the loss of time on the other missions...