Remove tech icons from the expert server?

[150GCT_Veltro]

Would it be possible for you, just to improve the pilot attention to manage the engine? We know we can do it as client, but would it be possible force this directly from the server options?

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Yep and be able to remove the radar as well.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

U can remove techno chat in settings permanently

[mb339pan]

+1

[SharpeXB]

There's not necessarily anything "un expert" about the Technochat. It's just showing you control inputs visually that in a real aircraft you could understand by feel in the cockpit without looking directly at the control like you have to do on a PC screen. For example the real pilot can tell when they've stopped lowering the flaps when they feel the hand wheel stop turning, they don't have to look at the wheel itself to tell. Depending on the conrollers a player might have this could apply to the throttle as well if they're using buttons instead of an actual lever. So even Expert mode shouldn't make operating the game aircraft more difficult than a real one.

There are separate categories of "Tips" (Overheat warnings etc) and "Technical" which the payer is able to set themselves but those aren't server settings. Perhaps "Tips" could be regulated on Expert?

Edited August 18, 2015 by SharpeXB

[6./ZG26_Emil]

U can remove techno chat in settings permanently

 

I dont think you can force everyone to do it in the server settings though which is what the OP means.

 

The result would be that you have a server where everyone has the same settings.

[72sq_Savinio]

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/767-thread-gather-your-suggestions/?p=273408

 

[Feathered_IV]

The techno-chat icons always reming me of the roadside signs one sees on a long drive.  I keep expecting to see a knife and fork icon for an afforable B&B suddenly appear.  Or a symbol denoting a public toilet 1 mile ahead... 

[Y29.Layin_Scunion]

How would you know your settings?

 

The actual pilot turned a wheel or lever and could get an idea by feel. Having to stare down at a lever every time I use it is less immersive than a "50% oil rad" icon IMO.

 

I should not have to look at every wheel/lever for every adjustment, every time, and there's a lot of adjusting through combat with something like an LA-5. Like I said, real pilots had feel, from the aircraft, from the sounds, from the levers/wheels etc. Not everyone has a quadrant throttle and HOTAS.

 

Just a thought. May not be very popular among the majority.

[150GCT_Veltro]

How would you know your settings?

 

The actual pilot turned a wheel or lever and could get an idea by feel. Having to stare down at a lever every time I use it is less immersive than a "50% oil rad" icon IMO.

 

I should not have to look at every wheel/lever for every adjustment, every time, and there's a lot of adjusting through combat with something like an LA-5. Like I said, real pilots had feel, from the aircraft, from the sounds, from the levers/wheels etc. Not everyone has a quadrant throttle and HOTAS.

 

Just a thought. May not be very popular among the majority.

 

100% agree, i simple need to report some heavy complains about this aspect.

 

However this option could be a good addition. More options, more people "on board". So, i think is a must like it or not.

Edited August 18, 2015 by 150GCT_Veltro

[Skoop]

I like the techno chat. If you want it off press h for the hud off button and there you go no techno chat. No need to force everyone to not have techno cat in expert.

[150GCT_Veltro]

I like the techno chat. If you want it off press h for the hud off button and there you go no techno chat. No need to force everyone to not have techno cat in expert.

 

You have to in an official competition, if we''ll never could host this kinde of games.

[TWC_Ace]

I like the techno chat. If you want it off press h for the hud off button and there you go no techno chat. No need to force everyone to not have techno cat in expert.

 

The problem is that your loosing chat window also...

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Personally I'd rather keep the techno chat. There is so much feedback missing.

 

While options are always a good thing, I feel that with the numbers playing - dedicated server operators that chose to remove it may find lower population?

 

It's about finding a balance that attracts the masses. No GPS might be the reason some of the previous popular servers are now frequently empty.

[72sq_Savinio]

I think that could be sufficient "disengage" only some message icon and add a window where we can see a % of using Aircraft controls (just like in CloD). I love look in cockpit to know when i'm at Emergency power and when i need to open my radiator,  not at techno chat icon. Some other are, without doubt, necessary, like damage icons and % for throttle and radiator but i don't want to know that at 60% i'm in combat mode or in Emergency mode, i want to look to the cockpit instruments to know that.

[EAF51_Jimmi]

Would it be possible for you, just to improve the pilot attention to manage the engine? We know we can do it as client, but would it be possible force this directly from the server options?

 

 

Yep and be able to remove the radar as well.

 

 

+1

 

+1

the engine management is already simple, and the tech icons constantly reminds that to you spoiling fun!

having a server setting would be good!

[xvii-Dietrich]

+1

the engine management is already simple, and the tech icons constantly reminds that to you spoiling fun!

having a server setting would be good!

 

I agree.

 

More complexity would greatly add to the immersion, challenge and, thus, satisfaction.

[SharpeXB]

I think some of the "Technical" icons should be moved to the "Tips" category. Like "Gun out of Ammo" or "Engine Overheat"

And perhaps the "Engine Damaged" as well.

All of those if you're playing Expert mode you should be using the instruments to determine.

Like if you get hit look at your fuel gage and pressure or temps to determine if it's damaged etc

Edited August 18, 2015 by SharpeXB

[Y-29.Silky]

Removed the tech icons today and forgot how fun it is. It really does feel more immersive. Saying it's less immersive to look down rather than feel is an invalid argument and your RPM's are a perfect example. Flying in real life you're constantly checking your gauges, but you boost your RPM's to "90%" rather than being immersive and looking at your gauge for "2600rpms". Mixture is another example. In the Yak, the yellow knob full forward means full mix, which you know has to be full to start your aircraft, and if you have to lower mixture, just give it a couple taps on your keyboard to lower it just a little to simulate that 'feel'. 

 

 

Unbinding the "I" key is another thing it did to force me to navigate, give me more situational awareness vs constantly worrying about 'exactly' where I am by checking the map constantly. Also, in WoL server when someone calls out for help they'll say something like, "390.5", and of course people tunnel vision directly to 390.5 and when they arrive, they don't notice the battle is a whole grid away. But if the pilot said, "Need help at Karpovka", people would head to the general direction and scan a larger area.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Y-29.Silky

[SharpeXB]

I always like playing sims with a minimum of aids because yes you gain more awareness of the game itself like studying all the nuances of the maps and feeling the sounds of the engine. In RoF after many hours flying one of the planes it seems you can tell your engine has something wrong just by the sound.

I do think the Technochat has a good purpose even in the expert mode. Another improvement would be to simply make it smaller, much of the graphics in BoS are nicely designed but are just too large on the screen. I don't know why, it certainly doesn't need to be.

[avlSteve]

I usually shut all visuals but I wish I could smell the engine getting hot.  

[71st_AH_Hooves]

I just want an option like we had in ROF where I can move elements of the UI around to where i see fit.  Why on earth did they get rid of that option?  Also can I PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE THE CHAT SMALLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!   see what I did there??

Edited August 19, 2015 by [TWB]Hooves_McG

[SharpeXB]

YES*

 

*This violation of Forum Rule #11 is intended for comedic purposes only.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

As it stands the tech chat shows engine settings/damage and tips also shows warnings.

 

I think it would be better if the damage was separated out also so that engine settings could stand alone.

[SvAF/F19_Tomten]

Shameless necro, but is this something on the to do list? Having this as server setting would really increase immersion without giving you a disadvantage like it would be if you only disable it yourself.

[sniperton]

Switch off everything and you'll be happy. I hope you'll be happy. Never mind the rest of us. We'll find our way to play this game as we like.

[SAG]

I do think that tecnochat should be able to be disabled Server-side (and i've had this opinion even before joining the VR crowd in case anyone is wondering)

[Herne]

technochat has its place in IL2 but I would love for server admins to be able to choose if its available or not. I don't use it anymore, I think the instruments tell you everything you need to know, with the exception of the PE2- 35 for the prop pitch. I aim for approx 60 seconds holding right shift + I think it is. I know when its working because I see the two black switches move forward, but not spotted anything in the cockpit that suggests it might be telling me what the current settings are. Could be there and I just havent seen it. Generally though I have everything I need right there in the cockpit. 

 

I like the idea of having "full real servers." I'm not even adverse to cold starts, I believe server admins can actually enforce that but not seen any servers use it.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Wow, I just saw my comment from 2015. I've changed sides. Perhaps this was due to my inexperience in having to fly without those aids.

Make technochat a server side option. Getting a convenient (overheat) message or Emergency power exceeded warning, or low fuel message in an Expert server is rubbish. Same with the Compass. Planes have dials and gauges. Use them. If your plane had the gauge in a crap position, you have to deal with this, just like someone flying a slow plane or a plane that turns poorly has to deal with those issues.

Edited December 22, 2017 by =TBAS=Tripwire

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Maybe when my engine doesn't blow for flying my throttle at 76% instead of 73% (or whatever, you understand my meaning)...

 

Checking to make sure my ATA is set perfect, especially when my IRL throttle moves faster than the in-game one, sort of monopolizes my attention when it needs to be outside the cockpit.

 

Not a big deal in a yak or some other Russian fighters though, I'll admit.

Edited December 22, 2017 by hrafnkolbrandr

[tailwheel]

I always play without both. For me it adds so much to the game to have to navigate, and understand your plane.

+1 on removing techno tips and info bar.You feel a sense of risk if there's no little orange goblin giving away the status of your engine. I'd rather see the gauges fluctuate a bit as the engine gets near taking damage. So if you're paying attention, it makes having your gauges more important. It makes you learn things like the rad wheels in the yak will turn 10 spoke from full open to closed, so if you want 50% you turn the wheel 5 spokes. You learn the plane. for me that's fun

+1 on removing the map icons (except target locations). Navigating is so much fun. learning how to translate the map into the shapes out the window. figuring out where the heck you are after a dog fight. Makes fuel management more important, esp if you get lost. I find it amusing that I never hear over the radio 'where the hell are we?'

+1 on both off on an expert server. Because then everybody is playing using the same ruleset. Personally I have no grudge against people who turn them on in WOL, but I feel pretty good when I'm succeeding in my missions knowing I have them off and potentially my opponent has them on. So my wins feel a bit sweeter. I don't play TAW so I cant remember if they are on or off there.

[icecream]

personally the clod system is way better, even if it isn't much, it's something.

wish we could get something similar, but i guess most people aren't into it sadly.

[Herne]

personally the clod system is way better, even if it isn't much, it's something.

wish we could get something similar, but i guess most people aren't into it sadly.

 

I'm not so sure. I havent played much CLoD but I checked the new blitz version out briefly I took off and I obviously messed up with my radiator settings and I had a message telling me that I had damaged some gasket or other.

 

The truth is IRL there is no way the pilot could have known exactly what the nature of the damage was, but he could make an educated guess. This is why I like BoX's implementation better with technochat off. If I damage my engine a little, I know its damaged, because the MP and engine revs may flutter, perhaps hardly noticeable until the engine degrades. but the signs of damage are already there. 

 

BoX gives us everything we need to look after the engine with those excellent specification tab notes on the map briefing. I wouldn't mind if the CLoD level of engine damage detail was recorded as a log entry that you could review on your sortie details, but I think what we have is probably already pretty accurate, in so far as apart from damage through overheating where you can see the temperature climb, if you start to get signs that the engine isn't quite running right, then it's already taken damage. I actually really like that, and it makes me pay attention to the engine management notes on the specs tab.

 

 

[kalbuth]

Maybe when my engine doesn't blow for flying my throttle at 76% instead of 73% (or whatever, you understand my meaning)...

 

Checking to make sure my ATA is set perfect, especially when my IRL throttle moves faster than the in-game one, sort of monopolizes my attention when it needs to be outside the cockpit.

 

Not a big deal in a yak or some other Russian fighters though, I'll admit.

It doesn't work that way, if what you mean is that engine is dictated by tech chat state. The engine is not killed because you are at 'emergency' instead of 'combat', as the tech chat tells you. It's more linear than that. Actually, your reaction could kinda prove the point You can squeeze of more than 3 minutes of "emergency" if you are juste slightly above the tech chat limit for said 'emergency' label, and if the tech chat wasn't there, you wouldn't be so fixated on being perfect on spot, I guess.

I tend to go by ear on the LW birds, because the sound tells you in what kind of regime you are, and double check on ATA (109) or RPM (190) from time to time. When tech chat is on, I get more fixated on it, and actually don't fly the same way.

 

This is probably one of my biggest issue right now in IL2, damn tech chat being there, and not a server-side thing. It's too big of a bonus in MP (knowing exactly when you are hurt, out of ammo, perfect engine regime, without having to know your bird to check that very parameters/states) to disable them, but it's not really a simulation when they are on.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

But before you do that you have to write down all planes max performance specs or remember them
as the gme only cares about the HUD mode its in (contin/climb/combat and so on) it does not care about the actual ATA or rpm for the engine timers

Eg,
109 F2 is Rated to fly at only 1.25ata for 20 mins
But using the hud u can see that 1.2999ata is still combat power and can also be run for the full 20 mins no different.
If you don't know this info you will nerf your 109 F2 performance flying at 1.25ata.

111 n 88 Rated @ 2300rPM / 1.25ata for 30 mins (but can climb on 2450rpm @ 1.33 ata for 30 mins no problems every map) 

Same goes for temps in LW planes.the rated water and oil temps mean nothing but what the hud thinks is hot "*engine overheating" warning Any temps below this are ok.

Eg,
111 / 88 is rated at 95*C water or something but you can close rads or cowl and happily run 115*C it wont show overheat till 118*C and damage will NOT happen until it says its overheating for so many minutes.
The trigger is not the temp its the HUD mode.

Edited December 22, 2017 by =TBAS=Sshadow14

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

But why should we all be riding the very limit of combat/emergency down to the 1%. Pretty sure the real pilots didn't get to? (Yes i know they also didn't have a self destruct timer) but they also had more on the line if an engine did fail.

 

No HUD, you then have to look at the gauge and move the needle to the reference in the manual. The fact that there is a little leeway in the combat/emergency is good. Flying without the HUD, I personally have found that I rest my engine more, and I don't push the engine unless really in dire straits. I think the only time I wrecked my engine was not watching a temperature gauge closely.

 

Yes you will need to know the limits of your plane better,  X ATA/Hg/Psi for Y plane, but that means until you know this you spend 20 more seconds in the briefing page looking at the engine limits until your familiar with the plane and can just click past.

[kalbuth]

The trigger is not the temp its the HUD mode.

That's actually not true, AFAIK

EDIT : example reference : https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/32857-engines-blowing-too-easy-ruining-immersionan-idea-here/?do=findComment&comment=545736

Edited December 22, 2017 by kalbuth

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Those graphs are great but, They are for different engine modes. (i am talking about within the same mode Combat low versus combat high) 

Example for the F4
23.3minutes at combat power
4.4 minutes on emergency power or watever the next one is called on 109

Those graphs are great but Its not testiing the time difference between minimum combat power (70%) Versus maximum Combat Power (85%)
They both will expire around 20-23min mark

Say like on 111/88 combat is from 1.1ata to 1.3ata (it will burn out around 30mins if on 1.1 or 1.3 so always run 1.3 as its Majorly faster and lots more HP )

[kalbuth]

Those graphs are great but, They are for different engine modes. (i am talking about within the same mode Combat low versus combat high) 

 

Example for the F4

23.3minutes at combat power

4.4 minutes on emergency power or watever the next one is called on 109

 

Those graphs are great but Its not testiing the time difference between minimum combat power (70%) Versus maximum Combat Power (85%)

They both will expire around 20-23min mark

 

Say like on 111/88 combat is from 1.1ata to 1.3ata (it will burn out around 30mins if on 1.1 or 1.3 so always run 1.3 as its Majorly faster and lots more HP )

That's the first reference I found

Actually that's not my experience, really, as I've not seen a huge gap in engine Time to Live between tech chat 'Combat High' and 'Emergency Low' as you state.

 

That's not actual 100% precise testing, so I'm a bit catious about it, but let me explain :

I'm using VR for quite some time now, and in VR (at least in the beginning, I feel the situation is way better now) we had to cut off the chat/tech overlay to get decent FPSes, but that is impractical in MP as it also cuts off player Chat and in game messages, which can be usefull.

So I've bound the 'Hide/Show GUI' to my HOTAS, and generally fly now without GUI, I just put it back on when I have the audio clue of a message in chat.

On many many occasions, I found myself flying in emergency mode while I though I was in combat (ie, I'm maneuvering, hear the chat 'Ting!', get GUI ON, realise I'm in Emergency mode, pull throttle a liiiitle back , and switch GUI off again). Often, seeing how the combat was going on, that meant that I was in emergency for far longer than the permitted limit (judging for example by the sound, there are clear gaps in sound frequency between combat & emergency, or by the fact I had not moved my throttle for a long period during a horizontal maneuver).

If, as you state, 'mode' was the only trigger to engine Time to Live, I should have killed my engine quite often. That did not happen. I think it's more linear than just 'dictated by engine mode'.

Edited December 22, 2017 by kalbuth

[Matt]

 

 

Those graphs are great but Its not testiing the time difference between minimum combat power (70%) Versus maximum Combat Power (85%) They both will expire around 20-23min mark

 

I haven't tested the F-4 lately, but on the G-4, you can fly around for 15+ minutes with 1.34 ATA, which already counts as emergency power. 

 

It does make a huge difference if you use minimum emergency power or maximum emergency power and it's the same for combat power.