Silly start ups

[KoN_]

Pressing " E "  to start engines , 

Every thing goes to 100%  - mixture - prop - rads

and   yet you cant adjust the settings while the engines starts up  , then every thing drops to 0% with in a few seconds ..!!!! ???  making the engine cut out ...WTF you don't even have time to adjust settings before cut out ...its a pain in the ass ...a pain i tell you . 

At least give us time to adjust the mixture and prop pitch . My god i am close to un-installing you ..

so that we can bloody take off . 

[caryatid23]

You can adjust the controls before hitting "E" and it will settle on those positions after the start-up procedure.  That may help you out. 

[KoN_]

Roger that , ill try that didn't know , Rant over . 

[Finkeren]

I just hope we'll get manual startups eventually.

 

I refuse to believe, that the devs decided to model it in all details only to keep it automated in perpetuity.

[caryatid23]

Agreed -- manual start-ups would be awesome.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

I heard that all those things that happen automatically are actual systems running. So being able to do them ourselves would be awesome. I hope they reach that level someday.

[SharpeXB]

Sorry but manual startups with combo key presses would be awful and nobody would end up using the feature. Only clickable cockpit sims can get into that complexity.

[caryatid23]

[LukeFF]

I just hope we'll get manual startups eventually.

 

I refuse to believe, that the devs decided to model it in all details only to keep it automated in perpetuity.

 

 

Agreed -- manual start-ups would be awesome.

 

They would be something most people would try out once or twice for novelty's sake, and then go right back to the automated procedure. Heck, even DCS, with it's ultra-complex startups, has a simple engine start keypress for those that don't want to go through the rigamarole of pressing a bunch of keys just to key their plane started.

[caryatid23]

Most certainly; very few people would use it.  I would not have even the tiniest whisper of a complaint if it never existed, however I would love walking through the different aircraft start-ups.  Additionally, enforcing manual start-up on specific ( maybe just single player )  missions could be very tense and exciting for scramble or airbase attack set-ups.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

They would be something most people would try out once or twice for novelty's sake...

You mean like the campaing?

 

I'd very much preferr manual startup controlls (even without clickable cockpit) over the automated ones. Not only due to imersion but mostly because I hate random engine startup failures that require the pilot to turn all systems off before being able to attempt a restart. It's plainly annoying if happening ultiple times in row (my record was 4 times in Lagg-3).

 

Sorry but manual startups with combo key presses would be awful and nobody would end up using the feature. Only clickable cockpit sims can get into that complexity.

Tell that to the guys over at Flaming Clliffs 3. It is not meant to be enjoyable for everyone but serves the purpose of a strange thing called "diversity" (yes some people like that actually). And with the systems all implemented it's not much work as it involves no new content, just code and the will to do it.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Clickable pits wouldn't be necessary. I have plenty of programmable keys left on my devices and would love manual startups. I'd use it every time as I prefer to ground start regardless of the server. Manual startups/shutdowns were one of the things I really enjoyed about clod. Considering all of the animations are there, I'd be surprised if this wasn't implemented eventually.

[dburne]

Clickable pits wouldn't be necessary. I have plenty of programmable keys left on my devices and would love manual startups.

 

+1 to that.

 

Add the manual start for the procedures that are already in place, along with  having the one button start as it currently is.

Those that want to do manual then have the option, those that don't then can still do it as they are now.

 

Adds a little more depth to the sim for those that would like to have that ability.

Edited August 17, 2015 by dburne

[Matt]

I think there should atleast be a more advanced system that doesn't automatically set mixture, throttle, radiators etc. The current system is just "too" automatic, at least more automatic than it would need to be. 

[SharpeXB]

Tell that to the guys over at Flaming Clliffs 3

DCS Flaming Cliffs aircraft are simplified system planes just like the ones we have in BoS. Their startup is only a tiny bit more complex than this game, like a key press for each engine and one for the electrical startup, so it's three key presses. But they don't have full systems controlled by keyboard commands (thank Gawd)

 

Right now in BoS even on the "Expert" servers. 70-80% of the players don't even want to take the time to taxi to the runway even if it's right in front of them. They just blast off across the field. So based upon that behavior if this keyboard startup was added as a feature, nobody would use if.

Edited August 17, 2015 by SharpeXB

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

That was not the point but the button mess you have when controlling flight and weapon systems there and still people manage to learn it. But that' a different topic.

 

If we take current startup functions (RPM/prop pitch, mixture, radiators) and make them fully manual + adding one key for electricity main switch, starter and possibly primer pump it would be more than decent.

 

Automated startup may stay the way it is puinishing people with no interest to go threw the process manually with random startup failures.

[taffy2jeffmorgan]

What the !!!!!!!!!!!!   what is this called, and how much?

[SharpeXB]

Somebody who has DCS Bf-109 K4 should post what it's startup procedure would look like as keyboard commands. Just for our entertainment. I'm without my PC right now or I would ;-)

[FuriousMeow]

What's the difference between running through the key presses - lets say e, 1, f, p, 2,3, p, p p, f, 6, 6, e vs just pressing e and it runs through those key presses itself? You missed one and you have to start over again? What kind of "immersion" difference is that? It's going to start regardless of the system running through the presses, or you doing it. Actually, if you start screwing around with throttle and mixture while the startup procedure is going you can actually cause the sequence to not work.

 

I'm just wondering, what really is the difference between pressing E, and the system dealing with the sequence, or you pressing the keyboard, or HOTAS switches, as above? Aside from you having to remember some key presses you otherwise wouldn't have to?

[6./ZG26_Emil]

What's the difference between running through the key presses - lets say e, 1, f, p, 2,3, p, p p, f, 6, 6, e vs just pressing e and it runs through those key presses itself? You missed one and you have to start over again? What kind of "immersion" difference is that? It's going to start regardless of the system running through the presses, or you doing it. Actually, if you start screwing around with throttle and mixture while the startup procedure is going you can actually cause the sequence to not work.

 

I'm just wondering, what really is the difference between pressing E, and the system dealing with the sequence, or you pressing the keyboard, or HOTAS switches, as above? Aside from you having to remember some key presses you otherwise wouldn't have to?

 

We can have cold starts and no one uses them...so I agree

Edited August 17, 2015 by JG5_Emil

[SharpeXB]

What kind of "immersion" difference is that?

It's immersive because it's exactly like starting up a real Bf-109 that had a keyboard in it.

Edited August 17, 2015 by SharpeXB

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Somebody who has DCS Bf-109 K4 should post what it's startup procedure would look like as keyboard commands. Just for our entertainment. I'm without my PC right now or I would ;-)

 

Relatively simple, actually... Nonetheless, that few keystrokes are still too many keystrokes... I don't mind clickpits but I get the point you are making.

[dburne]

Right now in BoS even on the "Expert" servers. 70-80% of the players don't even want to take the time to taxi to the runway even if it's right in front of them. They just blast off across the field. So based upon that behavior if this keyboard startup was added as a feature, nobody would use if.

 

By that logic, why did they even bother to add the animated start sequence... just press a button and off you go.

 

Of course some would use it...

[caryatid23]

Taffy2jeffmorgan:

 

http://www.chproducts.com/Multi-Function-Panel-v13-d-724.html

Edited August 17, 2015 by caryatid23

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Page 29-30 of manual:

 

 

Engine startup/shutdown: to start up or shut down your aircraft’s engine, press the E key (Engage engines start procedure / Stop engine). This will start the engine startup / shutdown process, which includes items such as turning the electrical power on / off, priming the engine, etc.

 

Note: in all Soviet aircraft, be sure you have set your engine’s fuel mixture to full, or the engine will fail to start. As long as your fuel mixture setting is correct, you need to press the E key only once to start your engine.

 

Note: all German aircraft have automatic mixture controls, and thus mixture cannot be adjusted on these planes. For these planes you thus do not need to adjust the fuel mixture prior to starting the engine.

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

You mean like the campaing?

 

Well that's because the campaign currently is just plain bad.

 

If it was like other flight sims (either scripted or dynamic) it would be much better. Currently there is just no story to it, you aren't attached to a squadron, you can switch nationalities willy-nilly. Your actions mean nothing, if you get wounded you can hop in the next day as if nothing happened, instead of being away days to weeks for injuries.

 

Good scripted campaigns I'm looking at DCS campaigns (either official or thirdparty)

 

For dynamic campaigns, i'm comparing to Falcon BMS, but even if we got a Strike Fighters 2/Legacy IL2 dynamic campaign, that would be a massive improvement.

Edited August 17, 2015 by RoflSeal

[SharpeXB]

Ok here's the sequence for the DCS: Fw 190-D with all the key commands. You can decide for yourselves whether or not this sounds like fun without a clickable cockpit. Consider that there will be 20 aircraft in this game and each one has something different to control.

 

Set altimeter to QFE of the takeoff airfield. [Alt + A]

 

Turn on the oxygen system’s side-way valve (on the right lower front panel). [Alt + O]

 

Turn on all circuit breakers on forward circuit breaker panel:

 

- Flaps, Trimmer, Artificial Horizon [LWin – 1]

 

- Landing Gear [LWin – 2]

 

- Pitot Heating [LWin – 3]

 

- FuG 25a [LWin – 4]

 

- FuG 16ZY [LWin – 5]

 

- Instruments, Instruments Lighting, Gunsight, Compass, Starter [LWin – 6]

 

- Generator [LWin – 7]

 

- Battery [LWin – 8]

 

Check fuel in both tanks with Fuel Gauge Selector Switch. To right [RAlt – T], to left [RCtrl – T]

 

Ignition (Magneto) Selector Switch to M1+2 position. To forward [End], to back [RShift – End].

 

MBG Emergency Mode Handle in automatic mode. Pushed in position (check). [RShift – M]

 

Fuel Tank Selector Lever in "auf" (open, full up) position. Up [T], down [RShift – T]

 

Switch on fuel pumps with additional circuit breaker panel:

 

- E14 Forward tank pump [RWin – 2]

 

- E13 Rear tank pump [RWin – 3]

 

- E85 External tank fuel pump if external tank is connected [RWin – 4]

 

- E96 MW50 if necessary [RWin – 5]

 

Close canopy. Several times [LCtrl-C]

 

Set throttle lever to "Anlassen" (Engine Start / Idle) position. [RALT – Home]

 

Press starter switch about 15...20 seconds to flywheel spin-up. Press and hold [Home]

 

After flywheel spin-up pull up starter switch for engine start. Press and hold [RCtrl – Home]

 

Release star Set stabilizer trim to 0° (switch and indicator on left side panel) [Ctrl + T]

Edited August 17, 2015 by SharpeXB

[Ace_Pilto]

Some of the Russian planes really need the automated startup revised to include switching to rich mixture after the engine catches.

 

You get a lot of new guys sitting on the tarmac, starting the engine, watching it quit after the prime burns off, starting again, watching it die again and then quitting, never to be seen again.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I think there should be auto start and manual start options available. And for me its not so much about the start ups which can be interesting at first but ultimately a choire, its about have complete control over the systems.

[Sokol1]

 

 

Ok here's the sequence for the DCS: Fw 190-D with all the key commands. 

 

And as usual in DCS planes, some items of this list are only "What if/phantasy" - the plane will start if dont "Check fuel in both tanks..." Mission makers dont create missions with 0 fuel.

[SharpeXB]

And as usual in DCS planes, some items of this list are only "What if/phantasy" - the plane will start if dont "Check fuel in both tanks..." Mission makers dont create missions with 0 fuel.

Hey you guys want this to be a "simulator" or not?

[71st_AH_Hooves]

How about how CLOD does it?  Find your pedcock, and be able to adjust your settings while the engine starts.  Simple, yet enough management to make it feel as if something you are doing is making the plane bark to life.  I dont need all those keys, but watching it all happen without any input and then failing because I couldn't change my mixture at any time during this excruciating process, really chaps my ass.   There is a middle ground to be had.

Edited August 18, 2015 by [TWB]Hooves_McG

[SharpeXB]

How about how CLOD does it?  Find your pedcock, and be able to adjust your settings while the engine starts.  Simple, yet enough management to make it feel as if something you are doing is making the plane bark to life.  I dont need all those keys, but watching it all happen without any input and then failing because I couldn't change my mixture at any time during this excruciating process, really chaps my ass.   There is a middle ground to be had.

The clickable cockpits were a chief mistake in CoD that it has already been stated won't be repeated in this game. They add way too much cost to making the planes and don't add much to the air combat aspect. And without clickable cockpits, all the complex systems are too much of a pain for the players.

[Feathered_IV]

Right now in BoS even on the "Expert" servers. 70-80% of the players don't even want to take the time to taxi to the runway even if it's right in front of them. They just blast off across the field. So based upon that behavior if this keyboard startup was added as a feature, nobody would use if.

 

That's true.  For all the developers time and resources it takes, people would use it once and never look at it again. 

I've been playing MP for the last week or so and I'm thinking of deliberately ramming or shooting the next lot of players that cut across my path.

[Blooddawn1942]

I would prefer a manual start up option as well.

I have more then enough button and switches on my devices for even the complex start up procedures on all off the DCS modules and I enjoy it every time I fire up any AC.

At the end it's a matter of taste and I can perfectly understand, that a manual start up is not everyones cup of tea.

Therefore the manual start up should be an option and not mandatory.

But to be honest, I doubt that we will see this feature in BoS/BoM also we have all the neccesary systems and animations.

Remember RoF. Animations were there from the very beginning....and there we also have no manual start up.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Hey you guys want this to be a "simulator" or not?

Going into the extreme like DCS does not make it a more worthy "simulator". Infact no one demanded that level of complexebility which would also overload the devs with new functions.

 

But I guess that was not your point but to show off how silly the idea to introduce manuel startups is in your eyes and no one should have it?

 

What functions do we we have in BoS that CAN be set to manual controll:

 

1. Electrical power switch (including all sub switches)

2. Magneto selector switch

3. Starter

4. Primer pump

5. Mixture

6. Prop pitch/RPM

7. Radiator(s)

[8. Fuel tank selector] <- not really nessecary for startup nor in midflight because it's autmated for the whole flight anyway

 

So it's quite a bit less than DCS and still would do the job. And not all of those functions had to be manuel, like they could bind magneto, primer pump and starter into some some sort of "mini startup" sequence leaving all other elemts manual controlled.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Actually fuel tank selector/cross feed/isolation..... Is one of the things I would really like so if I get damage in one tank it does not all leak out

[9./JG27golani79]

Going into the extreme like DCS does not make it a more worthy "simulator". Infact no one demanded that level of complexebility which would also overload the devs with new functions.

 

Think the comment about the level of the simulator was because of Sokols comment about some points on the DCS startup list to be - and I Quote - "What if/phantasy"

[SharpeXB]

Think the comment about the level of the simulator was because of Sokols comment about some points on the DCS startup list to be - and I Quote - "What if/phantasy"

The point about "simulators" is that if you want to act in the game as if you are "simulating" the operation of a real aircraft, checking the fuel quantity is pretty much the most important step in starting it.

[9./JG27golani79]

The point about "simulators" is that if you want to act in the game as if you are "simulating" the operation of a real aircraft, checking the fuel quantity is pretty much the most important step in starting it.

 

That was my point.