What is your favourite replacement Swastika ?

[Rivet]

I reckon that's a safe bet Fifi.

[Obelix]

As skinner I do prefere nothing... no need a mods, just a few skins.

[RupertVonHentzau]

choice 5, like the III/JG53 did it during some time during 1940

 

+1

[Marcomies]

I bet one of the first mod to come out in this sim, will be an historical swatiska on the tail! 

 

The swastikas will have to be added directly to every single skin texture as there is no separate markings overlay as in original IL-2 for example.

 

This will probably lead to all swastika fixes being unusable online at least. All in all I doubt putting the swastikas in will be anywhere as easy as it was for original and CloD. It's definitely not going to be just a matter of "swastika enabler".

[keet]

I would prefer a normal swastika.  On a side note, I thought that the German swastika and the Eastern religious symbol were different, with the bars going in opposite directions.  When I was in South Korea, they were a common sight on temples, and of course there is a manji in The Legend of Zelda.  Even then, the general symbol vastly precedes Nazism.  Let's either give us the option to enable and disable it, or a mod (which would be illegal in some places, fine) that lets you display a German swastika.  It's a flight simulator, and it's not like there is anything nasty or evil about the symbol itself -- it's just that one short-lived but terrible regime happened to use it and give it a bad name.

[Devilsbirth]

I always wondered, how was Gaijin able to make it in Wings of Prey? It is russian company, game was available on german market, yet there is official dlc with swastikas for this game. Makes you think it may not be legal "problem" at all...

[LLv44_Mprhead]

I know about Germany, but in what other countries, if any, there are legal prohibitions in use of swastika? Can anyone tell? I have understood that in some European countries have restrictions if swastika is used incite hate, but it's allowed in historical context.

Edited January 24, 2014 by 13./JG51mprhead

[Foobar]

how is it in suomi?

[LLv44_Mprhead]

It's not actually forbidden. There are some clauses in legislation to prevent inciting hate against race, political ideology, sexual orientation and so on, but I don't think that use of any symbol in itself is against the law. Swastika it is still used in some military and govermental standards ( http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Presidential_Standard_of_Finland.svg ), although Finnish version is markedly different from nazi swastika.

 

Of course there is some outcry about this every now and again, but luckily common sense has triumphed in this question so far.

[--Voltaire]

As skinner I do prefere nothing... no need a mods, just a few skins.

 

+1 

[PolackInAPlane]

I prefer historically correct, but I would atleast have the dot in the middle. Maybe get rid of red star? Makes me think of Stalin and his crimes. But, that is just me and my opinion.

[FuriousMeow]

I prefer historically correct, but I would atleast have the dot in the middle. Maybe get rid of red star? Makes me think of Stalin and his crimes. But, that is just me and my opinion.

 

That retort would make sense if you used hammer and sickle, and if all VVS aircraft flew with the hammer and sickle.

Edited April 6, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Reflected]

That retort would make sense if you used hammer and sickle, and if all VVS aircraft flew with the hammer and sickle.

 

Not really...it's exactly the same. Symbol of a horrible regime.

 

That being said, it's a historical simulation, so I don't see why any of these signs should not be allowed. Ok, I know, we have regulations in Germany (do we?) so maybe a checkbox option would be convenient but that's all. If someone flies red in BoS doesn't mean he has a picture of Stalin of his wall, and I din't think anybody would fly a 109 with a swastika because they can proudly wink and the Hitler sculpture on their desks. It's all about history. But it's just my opinion.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Not really...it's exactly the same. Symbol of a horrible regime.

 

That being said, it's a historical simulation, so I don't see why any of these signs should not be allowed. Ok, I know, we have regulations in Germany (do we?) so maybe a checkbox option would be convenient but that's all. If someone flies red in BoS doesn't mean he has a picture of Stalin of his wall, and I din't think anybody would fly a 109 with a swastika because they can proudly wink and the Hitler sculpture on their desks. It's all about history. But it's just my opinion.

 

Yep. Altough I wouldn't be that supprised if some of the people flying VVS actually had picture of Stalin on their wall... Joking aside, it is how it is. If there is possibility of having historical markings some way without contradicting German laws, that's great. If not, it's really not that big issue. Current solution is plenty good enough for me. Btw, I recently learned that SG 4 often didn't use swastikas on their Focke-Wulf's, anyone know what was behind that?

[[RG]Flanker1985]

Not really...it's exactly the same. Symbol of a horrible regime.

 

That being said, it's a historical simulation, so I don't see why any of these signs should not be allowed. Ok, I know, we have regulations in Germany (do we?) so maybe a checkbox option would be convenient but that's all. If someone flies red in BoS doesn't mean he has a picture of Stalin of his wall, and I din't think anybody would fly a 109 with a swastika because they can proudly wink and the Hitler sculpture on their desks. It's all about history. But it's just my opinion.

 

 

No it shouldn't be OK.

There is nothing wrong with flying a hammer and a sickle, because there is nothing wrong with Socialism theory. It is about equality and social welfare and so on. Stalin was not a good person I can recognise that. But tell me is there a group which did NOT produce 1 or 2 defectives. So flying with a hammer and a sickle doesn't mean he like Stalin.

On the other hand however, fascism is created to exterminate other races. There is nothing good to say about it. And it would be wrong to fly with that diabolic symbol. It will also be inconsiderate to victims of fascism. Think about it, people lost their lives because of it and you are flying in it like it is just a joke or something looks good. If you are in a victim's shoes or a relative of a victim's shoe, how would you feel? Back then China lost 37 million lives due to the invasion of fascist, and ex-Soviet countries in total lost 31 million or something like that. That's nearly 70 millions in total. Fascism is something that should never be named again.

Edited April 15, 2014 by HarbingerFlanker1985

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Are you aware that both China and Soviet Union lost more lives to their sosialist regimes, than to facist invaders? Or in the case of Soviet Union at least the same amount anyway. You can't say "1 or 2 defectives" when every single sosialist regime there has been have ended up performing some kind of atrocity or even genocide. Scientific community more or less agrees with numbers in Le Livre noir du communisme – Crimes, terreur, répression. And that estimates number of victims of communism to be at least 100 000 000. So yes, there is very much wrong with a hammer and sickle, and with red star also, as symbol. That said, I am not opposed of having those symbols in historical simultion. They belong there, just as much as swastika does.

 

In this game we don't have a chance to play on the side of good guys, or even less evil. We have a choise between very bad and very bad.

[[RG]Flanker1985]

Are you aware that both China and Soviet Union lost more lives to their sosialist regimes, than to facist invaders? Or in the case of Soviet Union at least the same amount anyway. You can't say "1 or 2 defectives" when every single sosialist regime there has been have ended up performing some kind of atrocity or even genocide. Scientific community more or less agrees with numbers in Le Livre noir du communisme – Crimes, terreur, répression. And that estimates number of victims of communism to be at least 100 000 000. So yes, there is very much wrong with a hammer and sickle, and with red star also, as symbol. That said, I am not opposed of having those symbols in historical simultion. They belong there, just as much as swastika does.

 

In this game we don't have a chance to play on the side of good guys, or even less evil. We have a choise between very bad and very bad.

Read something that is not coming out of the west. I lived in a Socialist country for over 18 years I know it better than you I dare to say,

I know Finlanders, I talked to many Finlanders before. Most of them supports Germany action in WW2 and give the history between Finland and the Russia. I can give a reasonable guess what type of information or disinformation are flowing around in Finland.

 

It is even more ridiculous to think that Red Star is wrong, it is just a national military symbol. If that is wrong, then let's ban the black cross as well.

 

"when every single sosialist regime there has been have ended up performing some kind of atrocity or even genocide"??

What are you talking about?? Your arguments are full of subjective presumptions.

You mean like the empire that sun never set?? "genocide" of indigenous people of Australia, American and Slavery of African? Last time I checked, those are done by capitalists. Not to mention export and force my country to buy Opium? How many victims in total??

 

 

"And that estimates number of victims of communism to be at least 100 000 000."

Who is the one to judge? I am now live in a west country for over 11 years now. They often add all criminals in a Socialist country as "victim" of Socialism. Do you actually know much history of my country? If you don't, I would kindly suggest you not say something that you don't really know much about. It worries me and angers me someone would jump out and defending for fascists.

 

Edited April 16, 2014 by HarbingerFlanker1985

[[RG]Flanker1985]

Are you aware that both China and Soviet Union lost more lives to their sosialist regimes, than to facist invaders?

 

I don't know the detail about the Soviet, but I do know my country's history.  And I would say that quote is the most ridiculous thing that I have ever heard.

That sounded like some kind of misinformation used to demonise China. Do you even know the sacrifice we made, from both Communist force and the National force back at that time. Do you know how disrespect your statement sound? And how irresponsible it is when you know (I dare to say) nothing about my country.

I would ask you to change your statement.

 

 

Go watch movies like "Back to 1942". One of my grandparent was one of the people who were amount those who fleet that is described in the movie.

 

 

 

In this game we don't have a chance to play on the side of good guys, or even less evil. We have a choise between very bad and very bad.

 

Regardless what Stalin may have done, play as a Russia who defend their country is bad??

So what is a good side? Play as Finland to help Germany to slaughter innocent Russia? That would be good?

Edited April 16, 2014 by HarbingerFlanker1985

[Nil]

Nazism, Communism, Fascism and socialism all stink!.. there now that question was dealt with! Stay on topic.. or lock the thread

[Bearcat]

I'm down with that...