Take Note : Boom 'n Zoom is not allowed... you have to dogfight!

[von_Tom]

Vertical means up or down, and you can kinda do that at 50m if you want. A rolling scissors involves a vertical element as does a turn fight with a high or low yo-yo like element.

 

Depending on the merge, any kind of low down fight against a Yak can be difficult assuming equal skill. Increasing the numbers per side improves your chances of course unless your opponents are better coordinated.

 

2 v 5 with the result leaving 1 v 2 is a good result. I have to wonder at the 5 though - I'm presuming they got in each other's way or lost SA as to who was friend or foe. Lack of communication probably. Or they weren't very good.

 

Personally I'd still rather BnZ whatever plane I'm in. That's just my style though. Edit - it's also because I'm rusty as I don't get as much playing time now.

 

von Tom

 

 

Edit 2: Skillz are great, but not the whole point. The point is FUN and this thread is going away from that.

 

Edit 3: To the OP, ignore the chat. I also run away a lot, mainly because I'm usually low after doing a jabo run. The cloud is often my friend.

Edited August 15, 2015 by von_Tom

[Ace_Pilto]

Vertical maneuvering is something that is not limited to one direction and ESPECIALLY when you're flying a plane that climbs better than your opponents, you've heard of it, right ?

 

(seriously ?!)

 

So you're going to climb and give the other guy a firing solution on you. You're dead.

Edited August 15, 2015 by JimmyBlonde

[wellenbrecher]

 

I was on WOL last evening.  At the time, there were about 15 guys each side.  I swear to god, 10 of the Axis flyers were orbiting one airfield presumably waiting to mob the odd Soviet flyer silly enough or bored enough to have a go.  Meanwhile, the Soviets where kicking the living crap out of the targets on our side of the fence.   Wow ... 

Don't worry, a sizeable part of the USSR team does the exact same thing! Usually at the most central and/or forward airfield possible.

The folks playing the objective are the minority on both sides and always will be, Russian planes are just more versatile in that regard and thus more popular, I guess.

[Dr_Molenbeek]

-snip-

 

I feel you're trying to say that every fight at low altitude will surely, without any doubt, end by a turnfight... is that what you say ?

 

I fight russian fighters every time i'm doing Jabo, every time, they bounce me, and never EVER i had to "turnfight" because i was "out" of options.

 

Better acceleration, better climb rate, and the most important if never you're really out of options... BETTER TOP SPEED ! You run, they give up and you're going back to the furball... they're still following you..? High speed climb -> no russian fighter can follow.

So you're going to climb and give the other guy a firing solution on you. You're dead.

 

Loop, Immelmann... you know, those maneuvers where the less good climber cannot follow the better climber..? No ?

[Ace_Pilto]

 

Loop, Immelmann... you know, those maneuvers where the less good climber cannot follow the better climber..? No ?

 

All fancy names for climbing with something different happening at the top, you're still dead. 

[Dr_Molenbeek]

All fancy names for climbing with something different happening at the top, you're still dead. 

 

So you have no idea of what you're talking about, sorry for you.

 

The funny thing is that i'm doing this in Fw 190 and it works without problem at the moment you stay below 2000m (above what the plane underperforms seriously)... 109s climb even better and are less draggy, lolz guys, sorry but... lolz.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Ze_Hairy

[Maxyman]

So you have no idea of what you're talking about, sorry for you.

 

The funny thing is that i'm doing this in Fw 190 and it works without problem at the moment you stay below 2000m (above what the plane underperforms seriously)... 109s climb even better and are less draggy, lolz guys, sorry but... lolz.

How come? What about those FM threads where you whinge that Po-2 can outclimb you?

[Dr_Molenbeek]

How come? What about those FM threads where you whinge that Po-2 can outclimb you?

 

Gives a proof of what you're saying or STFU, not hard.

 

The only FM thread i've opened was exactly about what i just said in my precedent post (190 that starts to underperform above 1200m).

[Maxyman]

Gives a proof of what you're saying or STFU, not hard.

 

The only FM thread i've opened was exactly about what i just said in my precedent post (190 that starts to underperform above 1200m).

But you don't bother to prove what you're saying.

[Dr_Molenbeek]

But you don't bother to prove what you're saying.

 

About what exactly ? Don't tell me you're talking about low altitude dogfights, please ?!

[Ace_Pilto]

So you have no idea of what you're talking about, sorry for you.

 

Correct, I have no idea how you can do a loop or an Immelmann without climbing.

[Dr_Molenbeek]

Correct, I have no idea how you can do a loop or an Immelmann without climbing.

 

Maybe i should upload more videos even if i'm limited in low settings, to show you how easy it is to force a Yak-1 to stall (even with UFO flaps deployed yes) even when in a disadvantageous starting position ?

[Ace_Pilto]

Maybe i should upload more videos even if i'm limited in low settings, to show you how easy it is to force a Yak-1 to stall (even with UFO flaps deployed yes) even when in a disadvantageous starting position ?

 

Yes it is, but only one one condition. You need more energy than him.

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

Guys.... please do not get personal.

 

Ze Hairy... you make interesting claims and I have seen 1 or 2 190 vids where you show some outstanding moves to get on a reds tail but I still don't see how you stay low (<500m) doing those kind of moves without getting nailed by their teammates. I have on occasion tangled down low and got away with it, purely because a red teammate was not nearby to blow my ass out of the sky.

 

I also get what you are saying about boom n zoom..... but I must add that it is just one of the aspects of my tactics and of course it is one of many acm that we use to get an advantage and hopefully take the other pilot out.

 

When I say boom and zoom its where I stay fairly high to make sure i am above most of the reds..... if I spot one I try to check for teammates (assuming no clouds etc etc) then when I think I have a good chance I get the angle right and go into the diving swoop and hope for a shot and take it and then pull up and get as much alt to regain the E advantage. If I can still see the target a split S or a very high yoyo is executed to have a second go. What normally happens next is the red drags you lower and lower into a series of evr decreasing boom and zooms and often a teammates enters the scene and take you out.

 

Lately I have resorted to a single swoop and then try zoom up and away....ie exit the area and look to see if I can set up another swoop while at the same time also to scan to see if you have dragged in any other interested parties. Often there are a few of them! I then scarper and this is my most successful method of getting kills AND staying alive.

 

Lately I have found that the VVS pilots are hanging between the deck and about 3000m..... under these conditions anything other than a single high speed swoop and climb is going to get you damaged or killed.

 

So yes, the LW planes are very capable on the deck in a tangle with the VVS planes, but they certainly are not as forgiving and do not turn as well in the majority of people's opinions. Of course we are probably mostly doing it wrong but hell we cant all be aces. The compounding factor here is the VVS planes are mostly lower where the action and objectives are and you cannot get involved in a drawn out "turnfight" with so many yaks around because you are going to die.

 

BTW.... how do you out-perform the yaks on the deck in a 190? Are you using manual engine controls?

Edited August 15, 2015 by DendroAspis

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Do you know why it's easy for people like Lemsko or myself to "detect" these people ? Because there's a place where they ("BnZ planes" sect) reproduce very quickly, like mushrooms... War Thunder forum !

 

 

 

Actually, you gave yourself this reputation yourself, by saying what you have said in this thread and others (ololz turnfight with 109 ?!).

 

I have strained my patience in order not to insult you Hairy, but you seem intent on insulting people who in your or Lemsko's words are idiots or don't have a clue because they may not agree with what you are saying.  I am not without a clue and I would like to think I'm not an idiot. I do understand the principles of ACM's and "dog fighting." You seemed to lack the understanding that each aircraft has its strengths and weaknesses and I wish to fly aircraft to their strength, not their weakness. 

 

I marvelled at your  "War Thunder" video's of Ze_Hairy about his business but the one I found most interesting was the BoS video showing you mightily dispatching a pesky VVS fighter, as you threw your 190 gracefully about the sky......until you stalled and went into a death spin with all the grace of a wounded Hippopotamus.

 

 

Nice music...shame about the ACM.

 

 

The first casualty of war was the VVS the second was Ze_Hairy. My advice , stick to War thunder.

Edited August 15, 2015 by JG5_Custard

[Ace_Pilto]

 

BTW.... how do you out-perform the yaks on the deck in a 190? Are you using manual engine controls?

 

By staying faster than 500kph.

[[GOAT]Spoutpout]

I marvelled at your  "War Thunder" video's of Ze_Hairy about his business but the one I found most interesting was the BoS video showing you mightily dispatching a pesky VVS fighter, as you threw your 190 gracefully about the sky......until you stalled and went into a death spin with all the grace of a wounded Hippopotamus.

 

 

The first casualty of war was the VVS the second was Ze_Hairy. My advice , stick to War thunder.

You know he's just a man, right ?

He tries to improve at every fights, but he's also humble, that's why he sometimes put some of his mistakes online. And he shot down two Yak-1 without taking a hit, with a disadvantageous position. And that was 3 months ago. Now, you can be sure he doesn't get in a reverse spin so easily.

 

These videos are not for personal fame. They are here to prove that Fw-190 (or any other plane) is more than able to deal with "superior" planes if you try to surprise them with various manoeuvres.

 

Heck, there is more than 15 videos, and you take the only one he died to say "You died, you are so bad"

Edited August 15, 2015 by Spoutpout

[Dr_Molenbeek]

I have strained my patience in order not to insult you Hairy

 

Not the first time you say this... Please do, insult me if this is your only defense, don't be hypocrite.

 

I am not without a clue and I would like to think I'm not an idiot. I do understand the principles of ACM's and "dog fighting." You seemed to lack the understanding that each aircraft has its strengths and weaknesses and I wish to fly aircraft to their strength, not their weakness. 

 

"If you want to get in low level turning "dogfights" with superior turning aircraft where your advantage is gone that's up to you."

 

"Regardless of that, I would still like to be higher in a 109 and engaging them to that aircrafts advantage than flailing about in a turn fest with a Yak"

 

"If you are seriously saying that the 109 is a match for a Yak, with pilots of the same skill level in a low level turning competition,

then that is something we would never agree upon."

 

"The main point I have tried unsuccessfully to get across is to get into a turn and burn, low level fight with a superior turning aircraft that retains better energy in those turns is just bonkers. It's surely about flying to the advantage of each aircraft?"

 

"Hairy, I'm not going to resort to insulting you, but if you honestly believe that you can beat a pilot of then same skill level in a Yak and you in a 109 in an "on the deck" turn fest I wish you well."

 

Your words... you have no clue of what you're talking about.

 

I marvelled at your  "War Thunder" video's of Ze_Hairy about his business but the one I found most interesting was the BoS video showing you mightily dispatching a pesky VVS fighter, as you threw your 190 gracefully about the sky......until you stalled and went into a death spin with all the grace of a wounded Hippopotamus.

 

Have you taken the time to read the title of the video ?

 

Do it, maybe you will understand that this deathspin is something that never happened since this day and if i uploaded this video, it was also to show the spin.

 

The first casualty of war was the VVS the second was Ze_Hairy. My advice , stick to War thunder.

 

My advice: Stay in the stratosphere, stick to "BnZ" and only to "BnZ", because you showed in this thread that you cannot do anything else than diving on an enemy then climb back.

 

 

 

 

Here's a situation where i was "BnZoomed" for more than 10 minutes by a Yak-1 while i was RTB.

 

As you see, i have less than 50L of fuel remaining, i could not run away... i had to fight him, trap him, and kill him QUICKLY.

 

Funny thing, at the second i go vertical, i had less than 500km/h while he was diving on me since 15 seconds... Yeah, big energy advantage, to not even mention UFO flaps.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Ze_Hairy

[6./ZG26_Custard]

You know he's just a man, right ?

He tries to improve at every fights, but he's also humble, that's why he sometimes put some of his mistakes online. And he shot down at least one Yak-1 (severely damaged the other one) without taking a hit, with a disadvantageous position. And that was 3 months ago. Now, you can be sure he doesn't get in a reverse spin so easily.

 

These videos are not for personal fame. They are here to prove that Fw-190 (or any other plane) is more than able to deal with "superior" planes if you try to surprise them with various manoeuvres.

 

Heck, there is more than 15 videos, and you take the only one he died to say "You died, you are so bad"

Stop defending someone who calls people clueless alone with his friend who like to refer to people as idiots.

Edited August 15, 2015 by JG5_Custard

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

A. You know he's just a man, right ?

He tries to improve at every fights, but he's also humble, that's why he sometimes put some of his mistakes online. And he shot down two Yak-1 without taking a hit, with a disadvantageous position. And that was 3 months ago. Now, you can be sure he doesn't get in a reverse spin so easily.

 

B. These videos are not for personal fame. They are here to prove that Fw-190 (or any other plane) is more than able to deal with "superior" planes if you try to surprise them with various manoeuvres.

 

Heck, there is more than 15 videos, and you take the only one he died to say "You died, you are so bad"

 

A. There is nothing "humble" about Harry's behavior in this thread. Incessantly calling others names like some school-aged child is not "humble." It is... Childish...

 

B. Somebody who previously seemed somewhat reasonable has made himself out to be a completely pretentious [Edited]. Harry's participation in this thread has been for nothing more than arguing semantics - something that the average adult knows isn't a basis for a solid, objective debate.

 

Why this thread is open still, who the hell knows? Like I've said the past two days... I know a [Edited]-thread when I smell it... This is going nowhere but the direction it has continued to go in.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Bearcat
LANGUAGE

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

 

Here's a situation where i was "BnZoomed" for more than 10 minutes by a Yak-1 while i was RTB.

 

As you see, i have less than 50L of fuel remaining, i could not run away... i had to fight him, trap him, and kill him QUICKLY.

 

Funny thing, at the second i go vertical, i had less than 500km/h while he was diving on me since 15 seconds... Yeah, big energy advantage, to not even mention UFO flaps.

Please do not turn this to your defence you have been very vocal on here about how clueless people are on more than one occasion. You were even told by someone else that you had resorted to insults on another thread. 

 

You said to me earlier and I quote "you are done with me" Well I have to say Hairy,  I'm now done with you.

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Best advice is to learn your aircraft outside of combat first. Either fly in single player quick mission till your fairly confident or perhaps try our Online Training server with a friend or two. I'm not a good pilot either. Mainly because "I" have not put the time in to become better. But before you play with those that may be better at this than you, learn and know your aircraft and what it can and can not do. Read the numerous "good" tips from all these good pilots here.

 

As for those that are upset because you run away, well IF it were "real life" most of them would run like hell also. There is no shame in running when your outnumbered or outguned. And as for other pilots being upset with you, well, that's their problems and not yours.

 

Chief

[Dr_Molenbeek]

You were even told by someone else that you had resorted to insults on another thread. 

 

On BoS forum ? Got a link ?

 

You said to me earlier and I quote "you are done with me" Well I have to say Hairy,  I'm now done with you.

 

 

Look how angry BnZ players want this thread to be closed, funny.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Look how angry BnZ players want this thread to be closed, funny.

 

You seem to be the angry one, mate.

 

What did you not get about "Keep it impersonal?"

[Dr_Molenbeek]

You seem to be the angry one, mate.

 

What did you not get about "Keep it impersonal?"

 

Don't worry my dear, Bearcat will do his job.

 

I don't think he needs you.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Ze_Hairy

[[GOAT]Spoutpout]

Funny thing, Ze_Hairy seems to be the bad guy. What did he do ? He said B&Z was not a flying style or whatever, just one of many of the manoeuvres in a aerial combat. (which is right, of course)

He added that the ones using these terms of "B&Z planes" or whatever were clueless about ACM (which is right, since B&Z is still a unique manoeuvre, and it's well known that using only one or two manoeuvres makes you predictable, and you don't want that in a dogfight)

 

Then you get pissed about that.

 

I don't get it.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Don't worry my dear, Bearcat will do his job.

 

I don't think he needs you.

Nah, he's failed at that thus far... Pretty evident by the fact that you still think you've validated your views through name calling.

[FTC_Etherlight]

Calling people out for wanting to close a thread that, despite being a bit hot-headed, raises valid points about the sorry state of the current meta, thanks to hordes of non-contributing dress-up Hartmanns at 7k altitude, is not "making it personal", but an appriopriate response. If you do not want to partake in the conversation or read it, there is a very easy way to avoid it: By avoiding it. No need to scream for an end of the whole discussion for everyone, just because some people are getting a bit riled up.

 

This is a Gameforum, not tumblr.

[Bearcat]