109 Engine Sound

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

What are peoples thoughts on the new engine sound for the 109?

 

The 109G2 especially sounds much different at high rpm. I think it lacks some lumpiness and bass?

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

To me it sounds very much the same without load. With load you get some mid to high pitch noise sounding like a dynamo running on high RPM which is kind of annoying to be honest and doesn't sound oo well in my opinion.

 

At high RPM pretty much all engines ingame lack bass, so this isn't new.

[Reflected]

To be honest I think the new sound is a huge improvement. It sounds much less artificial, much more like a real airplane. It's not just the same sound at different pitch anymore, but full of nuances. I'm very happy with the update!

[LLv24_Zami]

To be honest I think the new sound is a huge improvement. It sounds much less artificial, much more like a real airplane. It's not just the same sound at different pitch anymore, but full of nuances. I'm very happy with the update!

 

After a quick test I tend to agree.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Hmm, odd. To me it doesn't sound anywhere near more powerfull or sth like that. I agree some extra noise is nice but it's not exactly how you expect an engine to sound like (not to mention lacking bass).

 

Btw. I was flying the G-2. I think it has a worse engiune sound from what I noticed using FMod, not toally sure how it's ingame though.

[NachtJaeger110]

I know this recording is not good enough, but it can give at least an idea of how it should sound, right?

 

 

it is deeper and the "rattling" (right word?) is much more pronounced..

[Potenz]

The bass thing it's quite unrealistic, as this engines has direct exaust, there's no muffler to create

any low freq sound.

[NachtJaeger110]

But shouldn't we hear it like the pilot actually did with his headphones and everything on? We do hear radio calls clearly as if they were coming from speakers at the ear. So shouldn't this create a muffler effect for the engine?

[Dakpilot]

I have never flown an ME-109, but I have been lucky enough to have  flown a number of WWII A/C, one point I notice is that similar type of youtube vids of those aircraft sound nothing like the actual experience, the human ear is not like a go-pro mike and when wearing headphones and a helmet it is different again.

also a lot of the vids have post production added, because we all like to hear a deep meaty Aero engine noise

 

I cannot say how authentic the game engine sounds are but since the update, in my opinion (for what its worth) it seems like a big improvement and much more plausible than before, while it may not seem like it there is a lot of base in the 'sound',  I don't know how the sound is mixed, but with a dedicated sub woofer there is a very decent low frequency bass present, if I turn it up I can rattle my window

with the infinite amount of possible speaker set-ups, perhaps the default is not so good, a play with windows sound and equalizer may improve the result, I am sure it is possible to save a custom setting just for BoS, a bit of pain but maybe others have more knowledge

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[NachtJaeger110]

I believe you Dakpilot.

 

If only we could somehow reverse engineer or filter the gopro sound recording to come closer to what the human ear hears...

 

But after all this theorizing (which for me is fun) I must state that I always loved the sound in BOS and that I see this new sound as an improvment.

[mb339pan]

To be honest I think the new sound is a huge improvement. It sounds much less artificial, much more like a real airplane. It's not just the same sound at different pitch anymore, but full of nuances. I'm very happy with the update!

 

+1

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I had the pleasure to record several aircraft on local airshows with my home camera. Although it is nowhere near sounding professional enought to be called a valid ressource, it does indeed capture the basic pattern of the noise quite well.

 

What that means is that the sound does indeed differ due to the lower frequency spectrum the camera captures vs the human ear, but it does capture a portion of it. Usually cameras pick up the mid to high frequency noise (= lower energy sound waves). Unfortunately professional recording equipment is too expensive and difficult to take on an aircraft of that size which is why stuff ends up getting sampled with "creative elements".

 

We also must think reversed, means what software is able to replay from the sample, which does not reflect he quality of human perception either. So after all youtube isn't nessecarily much worse than what you may hear ingame.

The bass thing it's quite unrealistic, as this engines has direct exaust, there's no muffler to create

any low freq sound.

I find this statement to be unrealistic. If you can report some real expirience flying engine propelled aircrafts you have my attention. Until than I will hold my own expirience against it instead.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[II./JG27_Rich]

Yes that's the problem we've all been in the real thing right and know exacrly what it should sound like from inside LOLOL

 

 

We better get Klaus Plaza to join up and buy BOS

 

 

Edited August 11, 2015 by II./JG27_Rich

[Dr_Molenbeek]

Engine sound that should be checked is the BMW 801D...

 

At the moment, it looks like that:

 

[Dakpilot]

The whole issue of simulated aircraft sound is quite a tricky one, if you had a totally accurate recording of the inflight sound, for it to seem correct it needs to be at the original volume, obviously this would become tiresome quite quickly (and for the neighbours  ) also you need to simulate what a pilot hears when wearing a headset and flying helmet because this is the reality , there is a good reason for most pilots of large piston engine aircraft seeking out the best noise cancelling headphones they can find  it is common practice to wear earplugs during a career to avoid deafness and lose your licence.

As for the 'Bass' issue there is not really the same deep sound heard in he cockpit as experienced when heard as a flyby, it is just a very loud mechanical noise (for want of a better description) without actually much bass content. If you take the sound and turn it down to an acceptable volume for normal consumption it would indeed be very unimpressive, I guess what I am trying to say is that it is much harder to give a satisfying aircraft sound at reasonable volume levels than one would think, much the same as if you record a live band. and listen to it at a volume that you could hold a conversation over it would lose all it impact and depth.

 

I guess it all depends what you want, and is best to adjust your sound/equalizer for each owns best personal experience from their own equipment, because if you had actual reality (especially raw cockpit noise without headset/helmet) it would not actually be a particularly rewarding or satisfying experience

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[FuriousMeow]

"Onboard audio is good enough"

 

I don't have these weak sounds some claim. I setup my audio though, adding bass because the standard bass is simply insufficient for all games. I'm also just using a headset with a buttkicker to add the physical vibrations, and the audio has bass. I can't record it, because despite what some think - whatever you hear through recording is still not what you actually hear in real life. The buttkicker simulates the in-cockpit "bass" the best, because it provides the actual reverberation through the airframe feeling, it doesn't sound like some bass driven techno beat that beats your ear drums into submission.

 

Also, you are recording stuff from x feet away outside of the cockpit with other sounds and the mic is being interrupted by various external influences like wind - and then you are playing them through another speaker system. So what you heard and what you hear in a recording are not the same even when the recording is from inside the cockpit. It always sounds wrong in recordings. Plus, what you would hear in cockpit and what you hear at an airshow is not the same.

Edited August 11, 2015 by FuriousMeow

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Yes that's the problem we've all been in the real thing right and know exacrly what it should sound like from inside LOLOL

I have some hours of powered flight and know what I heared traveling threw the headset. It was mainly mid and low frequency tones (reasonable as they have more energy than high frequency ones).

If you know how to drive a VW Golf you can surely imagine what a Porsche feels to drive, too. It's different, but not completely different things.

 

Engine sound that should be checked is the BMW 801D...

Yea, the radial engines kind of disapointed me in BoS. At idle it sounds great but above that it just rattles like a sewing machine... It's not as bad as the La-5 though.

 

I guess it all depends what you want, and is best to adjust your sound/equalizer for each owns best personal experience from their own equipment, because if you had actual reality (especially raw cockpit noise without headset/helmet) it would not actually be a particularly rewarding or satisfying experience

 

Cheers Dakpilot

I did that long ago although this is suboptimal as it will tune also other noises like wind and ambient ones. Besides you can only boost frequencies that exist. If high rev engine sounds don't posess low frequencies the equalizer won't help.

 

As for the 'Bass' issue there is not really the same deep sound heard in he cockpit as experienced when heard as a flyby, it is just a very loud mechanical noise (for want of a better description) without actually much bass content. If you take the sound and turn it down to an acceptable volume for normal consumption it would indeed be very unimpressive,

Sitting behind the engine means you constantly effected by the whole spectrum of noise. Bass is certainly one of them. I remember from my flights in even ULs and powered gliders that I could not only hear the bass but also "feel" it running threw my stomach. You can literally feel the engine running at wrong RPM setting and correct it by your own "butt feel".

 

At FM (too lazy to quote) so you confirm what I say....good enought.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[TWC_Ace]

I love the new sound in 109....thanks devs

[Livai]

The new bf-109 sounds like this here (Play loud)

BTW F-4 and G-2 looks like to sound similar?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmSfTAbJe8o

[Potenz]

I find this statement to be unrealistic. If you can report some real expirience flying engine propelled aircrafts you have my attention. Until than I will hold my own expirience against it instead.

The plane i fly is a PA-11, and actually i barely hear the engine with the headphones on, the most i hear are the most high pitch sounds, same goes when i ride my

bike, i hear all the rattling sounds and the whistling of the air pusher but no the deep muffler exhaust sound.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Fine. I have expirience with a Dimona powered glider (115 hp) and Breezer UL(120 hp). Both times with similar accustical impressions. I guess I'm not too wrong assuming that a plane with more than 10 times the hp has a stronger, more accustically deep appearance.

but no the deep muffler exhaust sound.

Thats the point of the muffler. Take it off and you'll notice a difference. Both planes I've flown in were infact fitted with mufflers.

[Dakpilot]

After a fairly long career, I can assure you that you get very attuned to engine noise especially on big 4 engine piston aircraft on 11 hour flights

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Here's a test of the new DB601 sound in FMod. Mind the strange added noise I was reffering to can be heared at 1:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oun5pxaU_us&feature=youtu.be

1. Test without load - very familiar

2. Test with load - sounds strange

3. Only the load sound

 

If load just went up to 0.6 it would sound better and not as much like a horn. Don't get me wrong, I really like the fact that sounds are being worked on. This one however is not much of an improvement to me as it is now.

[II./JG27_Rich]

Part 1

 

 

Part 2

 

 

Don't worry I just put some photos in in part 2 so it didn't seem so boring looking at the same 109. What I love is the wind in the dives 

Edited August 14, 2015 by II./JG27_Rich

[II./JG27_Rich]

Here's Klaus Plasa from inside and outside at Biggin Hill of this year.

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2015 by II./JG27_Rich

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Part 1

 

Part 2

Don't worry I just put some photos in in part 2 so it didn't seem so boring looking at the same 109. What I love is the wind in the dives 

Those are indeed high quality recordings. I've also used them (and some other free bits from YT) in my DCS sound mod for the Bf 109.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8U3aNpCsAI

This is an older video when the mod was more WIP and still included some original game sounds. Due to lack of time I couldn't record anything new in DCS and left the mod on hold as for now.

 

Not saying this is game industrie quality level of auido (even though the actual samples sound better than what is heared ingame oddly) but it's - at least in my opinion - a better representation of a 1000+ HP engine.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[gmx]

To me it sounds very much the same without load. With load you get some mid to high pitch noise sounding like a dynamo running on high RPM which is kind of annoying to be honest and doesn't sound oo well in my opinion.

 

At high RPM pretty much all engines ingame lack bass, so this isn't new.

 

I agree with you. First thing I noticed when starting the game after the update was this new irritating high pitched noise of 109 engine. I can't judge on authenticity but this high pitched humming when engine is on 2500 RPM really bothers me when playing, that I needed to lower the volume by 50%.

Edited August 15, 2015 by gmx

[Potenz]

the high pitch noise is the supercharger spinning at high revs, and that IMO is quite correct

[Dakpilot]

Funny, there were lots of complaints of the lack of supercharger noise  I guess this just reinforces the fact that aircraft sounds and preferences can be very subjective....

 

There is a very common complaint that people have in Car racing sims...what many actually want is to hear the rich 'external 'sounds they are familiar with, but inside when they are driving in 'cockpit view' it may sound nicer, but it is not accurate

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited August 15, 2015 by Dakpilot

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

If it is accurate, which I doubt (again watch my video ) judging by many other recordings of various 109 models, It is in my opinion too dominat. At max amplitude it sounds plainly bad while at like 50-60% it's not as irritating. SO maybe it can be at least tuned down a bit if not changed otherwise to imrpove the engine sound at mid to high revs.

 

Funny, there were lots of complaints of the lack of supercharger noise

I don't know how a supercharger does sound like in a high performance airplane but yet I have not seen any real live evidence it does sound like that even at TO. The sound without load infact sounds pretty close to the G-2 recoding of "Black 6" Rich has posted earlier without that strange horn noise.

[Potenz]

I don't know how a supercharger does sound like in a high performance airplane but yet I have not seen any real live evidence it does sound like that even at TO. The sound without load infact sounds pretty close to the G-2 recoding of "Black 6" Rich has posted earlier without that strange horn noise.

the distinctive whistle in the 109 that's the supercharger sound, for it spiral

shape whistle when forcing air into the engine.

[Freycinet]

I was listening to the Messerschmitt Stiftung Bf-109 G-4 (with the DB605 engine) going through its paces yesterday. Stood next to it during warm-up and taxying and saw the airshow routine from the flightline. Funnily enough the supercharger whine was almost absent during the whole show. Most other times I've heard the 109 at other shows it has been quite clear.

 

I talked with the pilot, Olaf Rehrer, at length after his routine and also commented on the absence of the supercharger whine. He said that it is very dependent on the wind, sometimes you hear it, sometimes it is carried away. And as a matter of fact there was quite a stiff breeze at the show. Weird how it can work...

 

(Also told him about the Friedrich being modelled in BoS, but he had very little interest in simming, he said. I would be the same if I flew the real thing regularly!)

[Voidhunger]

I was listening to the Messerschmitt Stiftung Bf-109 G-4 (with the DB605 engine) going through its paces yesterday. Stood next to it during warm-up and taxying and saw the airshow routine from the flightline. Funnily enough the supercharger whine was almost absent during the whole show. Most other times I've heard the 109 at other shows it has been quite clear.

 

I talked with the pilot, Olaf Rehrer, at length after his routine and also commented on the absence of the supercharger whine. He said that it is very dependent on the wind, sometimes you hear it, sometimes it is carried away. And as a matter of fact there was quite a stiff breeze at the show. Weird how it can work...

 

(Also told him about the Friedrich being modelled in BoS, but he had very little interest in simming, he said. I would be the same if I flew the real thing regularly!)

 

and is the sound for bf109 modeled good in BOS for your ears? I´ve never heard bf 109 engine live

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

the distinctive whistle in the 109 that's the supercharger sound, for it spiral

shape whistle when forcing air into the engine.

Incase you mean the famous "whistle" from the air intake it is modeled wrong as apparent in this clip: https://youtu.be/JGhMGQst4lo?t=268

 

The "whine" is very high pitch and most apparent when he accelerated. Later though when reving up to higher RPM it basicly drowns under the engine noise (probably only barely heareable in the background in reality).

 

If you watch my video again you notice the "supercharger sound" in BoS starts at 800 RPM and becomes louder all the way up to max. RPM, where it infact is most apparent vs the engine noise. It also sounds deep like a damaged horn and not like fast moving compressed air.

 

Edit: I think this one just shows well what I explained above on a more simple example: https://youtu.be/vUXWlAFbM18?t=127  You can barely hear the "supercherger sound" when hes going fast while it's more appaerent at lower revs and during acceleration.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Freycinet]

and is the sound for bf109 modeled good in BOS for your ears? I´ve never heard bf 109 engine live

Really hard to put into words. You can hear a whine and/or a whistle sometimes, and from some angles, but the whole sound 'picture' in reality is extremely rich and keeps changing all the time due to orientation, distance, wind, approaching or receding, wind, etc, etc... Also taxying past is a completely different kettle of fish, with more of a harsh smacking sound from the engine (prop blades beating the air).

 

There is literally no comparison to hearing it live. The sim is a good approximation in my ears, but has less richness. Anything else would be impossible!

 

I'll try to upload a few clips after my holidays... However, puny camera mic plus upload compression won't help giving a true impression of the actual sound.

 

BTW, the pilots' name is Rohrer, I misspelled it i my previous posting.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Freycinet

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

like some others have said i have an awful high pitch noise that makes it not fun to fly its just to annoying.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I have no idea about how realistic it is and don't really care but I defo preferred the old sounds

[II./JG27_Rich]

Here's a test of the new DB601 sound in FMod. Mind the strange added noise I was reffering to can be heared at 1:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oun5pxaU_us&feature=youtu.be

1. Test without load - very familiar

2. Test with load - sounds strange

3. Only the load sound

 

If load just went up to 0.6 it would sound better and not as much like a horn. Don't get me wrong, I really like the fact that sounds are being worked on. This one however is not much of an improvement to me as it is now.

1 sounds realistic