About the up coming BOM

[TheElf]

I don't remember him saying that, but if he did, it's nonsense. The MiG-3 had way worse sustained turn than the I-16 in all incarnations.

 

The MiG was a fairly agile aircraft (especially in the later versions) but it was not in the same leage as the I-16.

 

I have to agree.  No way it should out turn the Rata...

[[CPT]milopugdog]

Winger I recall you having similar responses to German aircraft for several years in Rise of Flight. Do you feel there is a dark conspiracy at work?

I rate him 10/10 best troll.

[BeastyBaiter]

Yes, there is a vast conspiracy. It works like this:

 

1) If your squad tag contains JG or Jasta, German planes get a performance nerf and all opponents get a boost.

2) If your squad tag contains something other than JG or Jasta, all allied planes get a performance nerf and all opponents get a boost.

3) Both 1 and 2 are true even if there are players in the match fitting both criteria. And no, the buffs/nerfs don't cancel out. German planes are always inferior to Russian while Russian planes are always inferior to German.

 

Back on topic, I think the MiG-3 remarks are referring to stall speed and G limits rather than max turn rate. He mentioned doing maneuvers at 130km/h in the MiG and that they can't be done in the I-16 at that speed. He also mentions riding the blackout in a way that can't be done with the I-16.

[Cybermat47]

I rate him 10/10 best troll.

I rate him 8/8 for gr8 b8.

[ShamrockOneFive]

It will be the MiG-3 vs. Bf 109 E-7 matchup that should be the best test of a pilot's skills. Pokryshkin shot down a fair number of Emils (and no, they were not jabos) in the summer of 1941 while flying MiGs.

 

Should be very interesting. I used to dismiss the MiG-3 but I've grown very interested in its development and combat record. It's probably because of my early dismissal that I'm finding out new and surprising things about it. Definitely not the terrible fighter that I had initially read about - it has a reputation but it's only partially well earned and the later models like the one we're getting is no slouch.

 

Winger I recall you having similar responses to German aircraft for several years in Rise of Flight. Do you feel there is a dark conspiracy at work?

It's a conspiracy. It's the same shtick from the same kinds of people year after year. A decade later and it's become predictable.

[Finkeren]

It will be the MiG-3 vs. Bf 109 E-7 matchup that should be the best test of a pilot's skills. Pokryshkin shot down a fair number of Emils (and no, they were not jabos) in the summer of 1941 while flying MiGs.

As a primarily VVS pilot, I'm not really looking for a 'fair fight' (at least not in 1941-42)

 

The Bf 109F2 will be the high performance axis fighter in BoM and the MiG-3 will be the high performance Soviet fighter, so those are the ones we should compare IMHO.

[FuriousMeow]

Winger I recall you having similar responses to German aircraft for several years in Rise of Flight. Do you feel there is a dark conspiracy at work?

 

What do you think?

 

I know you posted in that thread, he's just a broken record at this point. Unless there is absolute LuftWaffe air superiority in every facet of dogfighting with minimal effort on behalf of the pilot, zero application of basic fighter maneuvers required, and a clear lack of experience with Russian aircraft online in an Expert server environment rather than just agreeing to posts that are all bias-confirmation - then obviously, for some, there is a very clear neutering of the Axis aircraft vs the Allies.

Edited August 11, 2015 by FuriousMeow

[Feathered_IV]

Wow, I'd forgotten about that one. It does seem to be a trend.

[JG4_dingsda]

"Wer im Glashaus sitzt, sollte nicht mit Steinen werfen."

[Finkeren]

Can we keep this about the MiG and put the personal stuff to rest? That'd be great.

[Brano]

There are 2 more MiG-3s flying,restored at Novosibirsk .They also had AM-38 engine from one of them under repairs but I could not dig out any info,if the restoration was succesfull.Internet says that all 3 airworthy aircrafts have Allison V-1710 engines.

Anyone knows which version of V-1710 they operate? It is interesting to compare both Mikulin and Allison.Power output was +/- the same,but Mikulin was more of large volume/low rpm (46l,2050rpm)  comparing to Allison small volume/high rpm (28l,3200rpm).Dry weight was also very close,Allison being a bit lighter.

[Cybermat47]

Can we keep this about the MiG and put the personal stuff to rest? That'd be great.

Agreed. It would be nice if we could have threads on this forum that don't inexplicably result in nonsense.

[Danziger]

The only nitpick I can see is the exhaust stacks are too small.

[Danziger]

The only nitpick I can see is the exhaust stacks are too small.

 

 

Sorry had to figure out attachments on my mobile lol

[[RG]Flanker1985]

In that case, what about the AM-38 modification?
Sure we can unlock that as well. 

[Finkeren]

In that case, what about the AM-38 modification?

Sure we can unlock that as well.

Honestly I hope not.

 

At most it was done to around 80 aircraft at a time when the Battle of Moscow was long over.

 

Yes, I know we have several unlocks already that were either extremely rare, purely experimental or only used in combat outside the timeframe of the Stalingrad campaign (such as the big guns for the LaGG-3 and Ju 87 and the 20mm guns for the MC. 202) but two wrongs don't make a right.

[Freycinet]

Gospodin Barsuk (to refrain from ill perceived comrade) talks about MiG-3 ability to do most of things better then I-16 in general terms = It is faster,climbs and accelerates better and handles virazh better then I-16.It means that if flown properly,it will beat I-16 .He is obviously not talking about our virtual "stick to the balls" way of flying

"Virazh" means turn (French: virage). I wonder if any Russian-speakers knowledgeable also in aviation matters could truly clarify the exact meaning of his words.

 

However, Barzuk is perhaps the only person alive with recent first-hand experience of flying both the MiG-3 and the I-16. Surely his words must carry tremendous weight when he compares the two.

[[RG]Flanker1985]

Honestly I hope not.

 

At most it was done to around 80 aircraft at a time when the Battle of Moscow was long over.

 

Yes, I know we have several unlocks already that were either extremely rare, purely experimental or only used in combat outside the timeframe of the Stalingrad campaign (such as the big guns for the LaGG-3 and Ju 87 and the 20mm guns for the MC. 202) but two wrongs don't make a right.

I can see your point. However I think it will be better if we have the AM-38 modification. Think about it, it may be true that this modification didn't get to see action at the time for the battle for Moscow. However, it did see action in the later battle such as the Crimea and Kuban. So what would happen if the dev decide to introduce those battle after the BOM? It won't make any sense if they just introduce a new modification unlock to an already-existed plane. So I think it would be good to have this now, so we won't have trouble for later.

Edited August 23, 2015 by HarbingerFlanker1985

[Finkeren]

I can see your point. However I think it will be better if we have the AM-38 modification. Think about it, it may be true that this modification didn't get to see action at the time for the battle for Moscow. However, it did see action in the later battle such as the Crimea and Kuban. So what would happen if the dev decide to introduce those battle after the BOM? It won't make any sense if they just introduce a new modification unlock to an already-existed plane. So I think it would be good to have this now, so we won't have trouble for later.

In the case of the MiG-3 retrofitted with an AM-38 engine as a field mod, it's doubtful whether it even happened - there is no conclusive evidence that it was ever really done and to what extent. It's posible that the one source we have for it is right about the approx. 80 planes being converted, but even if that is completely true, we know absolutely nothing about how those MiGs performed.

 

We know a great deal about the very positive results with the two MiGs that we actually know were factory fitted with AM-38s for combat testing purposes (Those two aircraft actually participated in combat during the Moscow Battle and shot down enemy aircraft) but those two aircraft required extensive redesign of the cooling system to operate the AM-38 at full power. It's very unlikely, that the same rebuilding was posible with the MiGs that were supposedly retrofitted with AM-38 in the field, and therefore we really don't have the first idea what their performance was like (and it likely would have varied considerably from plane to plane) if they existed at all.

 

You could make a case, that the AM-38 MiG could be included in BoM to represent the 2 experimental aircraft, but really: Do we want more experimental aircraft represented in this sim? Just because the LaGG-3 S. 29 with NS-37 cannon was purely experimental (as was the Ju 87 D-3 with gondola BK-37 and the MC. 202 with 20mm gun pods) I don't think that justifies including such an entirely differently performing aircraft as an unlockable. 

Edited August 23, 2015 by Finkeren

[[RG]Flanker1985]

I see. Well, as long as they give us the twin ShVAK, I will be contented.
I just love the MiG-3 with ShVAK. I won't trade it for any plane until the bubbled cockpit version of the La-5F come out.  

[Finkeren]

2xUBS and 2xShVAK should definately be there. Both saw quite a bit of service, especially the UBS armed version of which over 300 were factory made (not counting those that were retrofitted in the field)

Edited August 23, 2015 by Finkeren

[Finkeren]

Just to be clear: I love the MiG-3(AM-38) in IL2 1946, and I honestly don't mind it being included there. The original IL2 had the 'luxury' of being much simpler and overall less historically accurate, so it was easy to create tons of planes without worrying too much about whether or not the modelling was very accurate.

 

In BoS the individual planes take much longer to model, are far more detailed and (presumably) closer to reality. BoS/BoM is better off staying away from the really obscure stuff that's next to imposible to model accurately.