Do you guys get flak for disengaging from a hairy situation?

[Xenunjeon88]

So in a full realism battle, i was in my fw190 at about 3000m and at I get surprised by a yak that bounces me from dead 6. I roll out of his line of fire and try to initiate a high/low scissors. I he manages to retain the initiative and I struggle to maintain situational awareness, losing track of him in all the disorienting maneuvers. After about 20-or so seconds in, I completely lose sight of him. So I slam on the WEP and charge for home. Sure enough, tracers burnout in front of me and I turn to see the yak about 1km away trying to snipe me. I roll to make myself a harder target and I get away free.

 

I can't turn fight this guy and I get disoriented quickly in defensive scissors so I play it safe and run, telling the guys at base I'm bringing them a present.

 

Then he breaks off a then goes on a tirade about how I'm a coward, that I should be able to kill him easily in my "superior" German plane and that only someone truly base and inept would run from a fight.

 

Is it just me or does this bull only happen to me? He'll I've seen plenty of German planes disengage and bail when I botch a bounce or I gain the upper hand in a dogfight and it's frustrating but I don't complain about it. And if they run from me they must disengage from other pilots besides me.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Xenunjeon88

[Potenz]

Thats what German planes does, dictates the encounter, and that produce frustration on some players. A good.fighter is the one that keeps its pilot alive

[Xenunjeon88]

Thats what German planes does, dictates the encounter, and that produce frustration on some players. A good.fighter is the one that keeps its pilot alive

Well then, it looks like someone owes someone else an apologetic tirade.

[Guest deleted@50488]

I use that technique quite often at the WINGS OF LIBERTY server :-)

[LukeFF]

There's a good reason for the phrase "live to fight another day."

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

Was his name "macro1" by any chance.? 

 

Also happened to me last night on WoL. I managed to zoom in on a VVS plane and get him smoking, and I luckily saw another LA5 drop in, hard on my tail. After much dodging and engine overheating I managed to get a decent distance and proceeded into a long spiral climb. I took the fight vertical and took a couple of swoops at him which he managed to evade. Next thing we were at 5k and he was on the same level as me. I don't like fighting that high because I don't like the thin air and the drop in performance so I went into a shallow dive to get him back down to just above 3k where I can build an advantage. So Macro1 starts going nuts telling me to "turn and burn" with him, calling me a coward,  and how good the 109 plane is at running etc etc. I told him I can't turn and burn at his own game and he reckoned he had lots of pilots turn and burn and shoot him down. I am just not one of those pilots.

 

I know all too well that once you get into a protracted turnfight with the VVS planes, you lose speed and and a lot of situational awareness. You are now a hanging grape waiting to be plucked by a red. No thanks.

 

He then dove his plane into the ground saying he had no fuel left and it was more fun to commit suicide than fight with me.

 

Don't stress Xenon, its just a but of the pimpled WarThunder crowd coming through.

Edited August 9, 2015 by DendroAspis

[LLv24_Zami]

That was a funny story . What is he, 10 year old?

I don`t think you should take guy like that seriously.

[TP_Jacko]

In fact if the enemy gets annoyed you won the encounter ). Maybe the Yak driver should ask why he missed on the first pass and put his energy into correcting that.

[Leaf]

Black Mamba is another prime candidate for such dickery. You can't please people like that.

 

If you egress from a situation they'll call you a coward, if you continue manoeuvring* they'll call you stupid.              

 

Get outta there, re-assess and re-engage.

[Ace_Pilto]

Thats what German planes does, dictates the encounter, and that produce frustration on some players. A good.fighter is the one that keeps its pilot alive

 

^^This^^

 

I got a similar snide comment when I shot out a Yak from under some poor nub after luring him into a vertical battle. He complained that I wouldn't "Dogfight" with him. Don't take it to heart Xenu, you made the right choice. Nobody learns anything from losing all the time.

 

To quote the Elder Scrolls lore

 

"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors."

 

-Gaiden Shinji

[Dr_Molenbeek]

So, you're a coward because you refused to let him capable to use his UFO flaps against you, and you preferred to play the "safe game".

 

Lovely.

[SR-F_Winger]

So in a full realism battle, i was in my fw190 at about 3000m and at I get surprised by a yak that bounces me from dead 6. I roll out of his line of fire and try to initiate a high/low scissors. I he manages to retain the initiative and I struggle to maintain situational awareness, losing track of him in all the disorienting maneuvers. After about 20-or so seconds in, I completely lose sight of him. So I slam on the WEP and charge for home. Sure enough, tracers burnout in front of me and I turn to see the yak about 1km away trying to snipe me. I roll to make myself a harder target and I get away free.

 

I can't turn fight this guy and I get disoriented quickly in defensive scissors so I play it safe and run, telling the guys at base I'm bringing them a present.

 

Then he breaks off a then goes on a tirade about how I'm a coward, that I should be able to kill him easily in my "superior" German plane and that only someone truly base and inept would run from a fight.

 

Is it just me or does this bull only happen to me? He'll I've seen plenty of German planes disengage and bail when I botch a bounce or I gain the upper hand in a dogfight and it's frustrating but I don't complain about it. And if they run from me they must disengage from other pilots besides me.

If you get surprised there is nothing you can do but dive away flat with WEP, doing small maneuvers to make yourself a worse target and HOPE that the pursuer is a crappy enough shot that he cant kill you during the 10 minutes it will take you to gain enough distance so hes out oif gunrange.

In a 190 you either have a huge energyadvantage or you run. No point in trying anything else. Scissors are BS since A. the rollrate is not better that the one of the russian planes and B. Scissors dont help anyways if your pursiuer knows what hes doing. And as soon as youre at low speed youll probably fall out of the sky since the low speed behavior of the 190 is legandary crappy.

Edited August 9, 2015 by JG4_Winger

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

 

 

Is it just me or does this bull only happen to me?

 

No it happens occassionally. Fly your plane to its strengths, not to theirs.

Some people are after different styles of gameplay. Unfortunately for that guy, you chose to fly to survive vs throwing your virtual life away and that obviously didn't cater to his different play style.

 

Remember the players name, and enjoy the excitement of your next encounter as there will probably be more ego on the line.  =)

 

 

 

 

I managed to get a decent distance and proceeded into a long spiral climb. I took the fight vertical and took a couple of swoops at him which he managed to evade.

 

Its very rewarding when they don't manage to evade and fall to the earth in a burning wreck after putting in the work to set them up like that. Especially when it happens after the comments about running away are made.

[Cybermat47]

Sounds to me like these people have serious issues

[Scarecrow]

Thats what German planes does, dictates the encounter, and that produce frustration on some players. A good.fighter is the one that keeps its pilot alive

 

Very true, a good pilot sneaks up behind his opponent when they are not looking and clubs them over the head. It's war not dueling pistols at dawn.

[FTC_Etherlight]

Okay, let's clean this up:

 

1. That was me.

 

2. I did not call you a coward, I do not insult people. I specifically said that "I will not follow your superior plane anymore" after chasing your for minutes while you called for help in allchat and that "I will return to base and you should call me when you actually want to fight." It might make no difference for the receiving side this time, but there is a notable difference in tone.

 

So why did I say that? We spent the evening playing Russians in full awareness of their fighter inferiority and that is fine in and of itself, but one thing gets aggravating after a while: Germans dodging fights where there is even the slightest of chances of loosing a fight: i.e. not having 2 KM altitude advantage. Germans can disengage a fight at will, be it by diving away and being uncatchable for most pursuers or be it by using their vastly superior climb and climb away at will, getting an even bigger advantage, because their performance suffers so much less up high. I don't mind it when people use that climb or dive to collect some energy to reengage or shift the tides of a fight. What gets me going is the avoidance of any kind of meaningful dogfight (careful here, do not read turnfight) or engagement at any cost for ages so they can glue a virtual knight's cross to their chest, cause they did not die.

I do not expect people to dive into a Russian furball and turn around in it or keep on fighting if one is damaged or at a severe energy disadvantage but out of about 4 hours of gameplay, I roughly spent 2 hours watching Germans flying away, even with numbers on their side, because they did not have a ridiculous energy advantage (which they do not necessarily need, btw. I win quite a lot of close engagements with Russians in my F4).

 

And then there was you. First of all, If what you are writing is actually what you perceived, I am quite amazed, because our "engagement" began with a headon situation with you actually having a bit more energy than me. Before we met, you turned your tail towards me (which I interpreted as an attempt to run away, because I did not even consider that you did not see me, since we were actually going headon ) and I had an awkward angle for a shot after closing everything that resembles a radiator. What followed was not a scissors but you going into a shallow dive towards your airfield after one evasive maneuver, pleading for help, after about 5 seconds of actual fight.

 

I have no problems admitting that I was pretty fed up with the round even before we met, because whatever we did, there were almost no meaningful engagements to be had. Flying at 3k alt? Germans being at 5, pure boom and zoom, okay let's change things up. Germans at the same altitude see you? Turning around, climbing away or diving towards the airfield. Flying at 6k alt? Germans surprised by that strange being with mediocre engine power at that altitude, diving away towards the airfield. It was ludicrous.

 

Maybe It was just a bad day or maybe I have misconceptions about the purpose of this hobby, but a huge part of the evening was an extraordinary boring waste of time due to the stout refusal of the enemy to perform anything resembling ACM. If your side of the story is actually what you perceived then this is probably more of a case of "whoopsie daisy, situational awareness was down the drain this time, let's gtfo" in a Focke-Wulf, which I am totally fine with since it is a far more challenging aircraft then the 109, and not a case of "Oh damn, this fight might actually be on equal terms and loosable, let's not do that!" which admittedly makes me bad guy in this story (which I am also fine with btw. ^^). Since I am an optimistic person, I will believe that to be the case and say: Sorry dude, you probably got flak from me that you personally did not deserve. I shall retrospectively redirect the shells.

 

But aside from me being a butt from time to time, there is a grain of wisdom to be had in this: I fly both sides and I've seen different kinds of engagements from both sides as well. This is for my fellow 109 pilots (I love flying the 109 myself): Do not be afraid to take fights that you did not 100% choose and and do not have to absolute advantage in! Your plane is more than capable of engaging Russians on equal terms by generating energy out of thin air (heh, literally) and by being quite a good turner itself. It is much more satisfying and enjoyable for both sides to win a fight because of superior maneuvers, aim and tactics than by booming unaware enemies only or flying away if that fails. If you never get into the situations where actual maneuvers are necessary then you will never learn how to actually perform them in case you are at a disadvantage and need to reverse the situation. I see a quite a few of 109s that keep flying straight, hoping they can somehow run away even when I am in firing distance and shooting at them, dying a very unheroic death because of it (which is also extraordinary boring for the "winner" I might add).

 

Just my 2 cents.

[wellenbrecher]

So in a full realism battle, i was in my fw190 at about 3000m and at I get surprised by a yak that bounces me from dead 6. I roll out of his line of fire and try to initiate a high/low scissors. I he manages to retain the initiative and I struggle to maintain situational awareness, losing track of him in all the disorienting maneuvers. After about 20-or so seconds in, I completely lose sight of him. So I slam on the WEP and charge for home. Sure enough, tracers burnout in front of me and I turn to see the yak about 1km away trying to snipe me. I roll to make myself a harder target and I get away free.

 

I can't turn fight this guy and I get disoriented quickly in defensive scissors so I play it safe and run, telling the guys at base I'm bringing them a present.

 

Then he breaks off a then goes on a tirade about how I'm a coward, that I should be able to kill him easily in my "superior" German plane and that only someone truly base and inept would run from a fight.

 

Is it just me or does this bull only happen to me? He'll I've seen plenty of German planes disengage and bail when I botch a bounce or I gain the upper hand in a dogfight and it's frustrating but I don't complain about it. And if they run from me they must disengage from other pilots besides me.

It happens to everyone at some point..

And unless it has not happened to you at least once - can be substituted with allegations of cheating of course! - you have been doing it wrong up to that point anyhow.

As such, welcome to the club. o7

[Finkeren]

If your opponent is furious, it means that you were doing something right.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I have had people say that Im a coward many time and I just laugh. They are basicaly saying why did you not come and loose the fight, how could you do that :-)

[Dr_Molenbeek]

-snip-

 

OP is talking about Fw 190.

 

Fw 190A-3 is broken in winter BoS and does not climbs better than Yak-1 above ~2500m even at full power.

 

"If your opponent is furious, it means that you were doing something right."

 

Or something UFO.

[SR-F_Winger]

OP is talking about Fw 190.

 

Fw 190A-3 is broken in winter BoS and does not climbs better than Yak-1 above ~2500m even at full power.

 

"If your opponent is furious, it means that you were doing something right."

 

Or something UFO.

Is there any response meanwhile by the DEVs on the evidence you delivered on this one Hairy?

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

This thread reminds me of the following:

 

"If you are in a fair fight, you didn't plan it properly." - Nick Lappos, Chief R&D Pilot, Sikorsky Aircraft

[Ace_Pilto]

Maybe It was just a bad day or maybe I have misconceptions about the purpose of this hobby, but a huge part of the evening was an extraordinary boring waste of time due to the stout refusal of the enemy to perform anything resembling ACM.

 

Hi Etherlight,

 

You're not going to get a lot of smart opponents engaging with you in what you call ACM (By which I assume you mean a competition to see who turns in the smallest circle without stalling) because this is really for the movies. A lot of people on here know the advantages of their aircraft and how to use them. While it is helpful to know how to fight from a disadvantage or under conditions you wouldn't choose it's not something any worthwhile opponent will deliberately incur upon themselves when fighting in earnest. If you find the tactics that the Luftwaffe fliers to be boring then you need to worry less about them not playing how you want and more about how to sucker them into fighting on your terms. There are quite a few tricks you can use to lure even a good opponent into a fight that favours you so maybe give that some thought, I assure you that it can be done.

 

The key is to remember that you're fighting a man as well as a machine.