Really?

[Jade_Monkey]

And just for the hell of it here is another translated fighter tactics from a 1943 article, not totally relevant but anyway

 

 ...

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

Thanks for sharing!  nice reading!

[JtD]

This thread should be moved.

We have no "pointless whining" subforum.

[Finkeren]

Oh, but we do...

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/94-fm-discussion/

[JG4_dingsda]

 

 

Vertical-maneuver fighting with the FW-190 is usually of short duration [...], and because the Germans are unable to withstand tense battles of any length.

This of course poses a problem, since it is probably not modeled in the game. This means you could meet a FW-190 that is not flown by a german but instead by an american, an australian or -- god forbid -- even by a russian, thus giving the blue side an unfair (and unhistorical) advantage. To add insult to injury that very same german pilot could even jump into a russian plane, weakening the red side even more!     

[JtD]

Oh, but we do...

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/94-fm-discussion/

Some of the stupid and the uneducated may think it is and some trolls want it to be that, but it is not.

[Trident_109]

Only kidding Winger 

You made me spit coffee. I usually hate wasting coffee but that was worth it.

 

 

 

[Jaws2002]

Also, adding to that. A heavier plane will accelerate slower in a dive because of the thrust to weight ratio especially in a steep dive.

 

Hehehe. It's exactly the opposite.

 While a heavy plane, with lower thrust to weight ratio, will accelerate slower in level flight, when they go in dive, things change rapidly, because the vertical component of the weight vector adds to the engine thrust and the thrust to drag ratio changes dramatically. If two planes with similar drag go in a dive, the heavier plane will accelerate faster and attain higher terminal velocity. The stepper the dive angle, the more excess thrust coming from the weight of the plane.

 

     Basic grade nine physics.

 

Edited July 31, 2015 by Jaws2002

[=LG/F=Kathon]

Really? What about F=m*a => a=F/m the heavier plane is the slower its accelerate.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aRhkQTQxm4w

[unreasonable]

The acceleration due to the thrust of the engine will accelerate a lighter plane more, assuming two aircraft only differing in weight. But the drag of the atmosphere will decelerate a lighter plane more as well for the same reason.

 

Which one will accelerate faster will depend on which of these two forces is greater at the time.

 

So if the two planes are in level flight at cruise power and both increase to full power, the lighter one will get ahead at first.

 

Suppose you unload to zero lift and enter a ballistic dive: the lighter plane will accelerate faster as long as the engine is capable of accelerating the planes. If you start at maximum top speed, you are at the point where the engine can no longer accelerate the planes, but gravity continues to do so, with air resistance (Drag) pushing in the opposite direction.

 

At this point the heavier plane will accelerate faster as the deceleration due to drag is less: both planes have to push the same mass of air out of the way, so the plane with more mass will be slowed down less. The acceleration due to gravity is of course the same for each plane.

 

With a bit of luck someone will be along soon to point out what is wrong with this and I will learn something!

[216th_Jordan]

I did some calculations with a force of drag equal for two planes with different acceleration and weight. 

 

Lets say Plane one is a Fw190 with 3m/s² acceleration and 4000kg weight and Plane two is a Yak-1 with 2800kg weight and an acceleration of 5m/s². At 250 km/h they have a drag-force of 4000 N (I found that to be believable).

In a vertical dive it would need more than 500 km/h for both planes to have the same acceleration and the Fw190 getting the upper hand. Mind you 500 km/h is roughly 140m/s vertically downwards.

 

 

PS: don't know why it turns to landscape format on my pc its in portrait.

PPS: Please read those number only to illustrate the dimensions we are talking about.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Jordan

[III/JG2Gustav05]

Really? What about F=m*a => a=F/m the heavier plane is the slower its accelerate.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aRhkQTQxm4w

You can not think about it by just using this simple formula, list down all input conditions, drag gravity, engine thrust and the sum of them divided by M, you will get the idea how it should be.

[wtornado]

Your gaming calculations are all wrong.

 

This is a game right?

 

This is dead wrong-------------> F=m*a => a=F/m 

 

Here is the real gaming formula.

 

F=Maddox* a=a(777 studios)=F/Maddox*

[Jaws2002]

Really? What about F=m*a => a=F/m the heavier plane is the slower its accelerate.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aRhkQTQxm4w

 

 

That's a stupid video. That formula is for objects in vacuum. In atmosphere, that silly little thing called drag ruins that simple math.   Another thing. At that short flight distance, none of the two objects can reach terminal velocity. Do that with a balloon and the medical ball and you'll see a difference even in that short fall.

 

The BS they just said in it, doesn't apply to airplanes, where the drag is significantly higher, due to the high speed. 

  Think about it. The FW-190 needs some 1800HP to get it hold around 650km/h in level flight.

  The engine can only propel the aircraft up to that speed. From there and up to the maximum speed it can achieve in dive, it's all done by the weight.

The La5, gets to about the same speed in level flight, with less engine power, but in dive, because it has less weight, it can't reach the same terminal velocity.

   Initially the lighter plane should accelerate quicker, but the heavier plane should quickly pass it, because it has excess thrust.

 Everything that happens above the maximum level flight speed, it's a direct result of drag and weight, and at high speed, with this ww2 planes, the engine/propeller combo generates less thrust.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Jaws2002

[216th_Jordan]

The engine can only propel the aircraft up to that speed. From there and up to the maximum speed it can achieve in dive, it's all done by the weight.

The La5, gets to about the same speed in level flight, with less engine power, but in dive, because it has less weight, it can't reach the same terminal velocity.

Initially the lighter plane should accelerate quicker, but the heavier plane should quickly pass it, because it has excess thrust.

Everything that happens above the maximum level flight speed, it's a direct result of drag and weight, and at high speed, with this ww2 planes, the engine/propeller combo generates less thrust.

Sure it's true what you are saying, but take a look a what i calculated. The rate at which you are losing height in a steep dive is so great that you will not win a lot by that, keep in mind that you will also need to level out in the end plus having played off all your altitude advantage.