Red vs Blue Madness

[SharpeXB]

Server Admins:

Please decide once and for all time which side is Red and which is Blue

I vote the VVS gets to be Red... rather an obvious choice really...

[SharpeXB]

Hmmm RoF is exactly the same way, but I never found it confusing there. Maybe it's the big Red star?

Edited July 28, 2015 by SharpeXB

[Willy__]

IIRC the blue side means "Friendly" and red means "enemy", it will switch colors if you switch teams. Personally I never had any problems with that.

Edited July 28, 2015 by istruba

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I'm on my phone but I thought team colors were a selectable option in the GUI.

[LukeFF]

IIRC the blue side means "Friendly" and red means "enemy", it will switch colors if you switch teams. Personally I never had any problems with that.

 

 

I'm on my phone but I thought team colors were a selectable option in the GUI.

 

Correct, it's whatever the player chooses it to be. 

[SharpeXB]

The difference between BoS and RoF is you can choose which color you want friends or enemies to be. Otherwise RoF is the same way. The Germans (Central) are blue icons but red squadrons. So the blue ground targets belong to the red enemy.

Edited July 28, 2015 by SharpeXB

[von_Tom]

The game is fantastic albeit, like most things in life, with small minor niggles.  This red and blue thing is a BIG niggle for me and I'm with Sharpe on this - red for VVS, blue for LW.

 

I do like the word niggle.  Niggle niggle niggle niggle niggle.

 

Niggle niggle niggle.

 

Niggle.

 

von Tom

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

i agree on this it would also be easier for new people .

[wellenbrecher]

i agree on this it would also be easier for new people .

Are you seriously suggesting that "enemy == red, friendly == blue" is a difficult concept for people to understand? That stuff has been part of "Western" thinking, let alone game culture, for decades now. For obvious reasons.

If anything people with no background knowledge at all of flight sims would be confused why their own team is "red" and the enemy "blue" when playing Russian planes.

 

 

Besides, point of the thread is moot as Sharpe didn't look at the options.

As said by Luke:

 

Correct, it's whatever the player chooses it to be. 

Edited July 28, 2015 by wellenbrecher

[SharpeXB]

RoF is different after all. It must be a server setting, but here everyone is either red or blue, front line, ground targets and airfields, it switches when you

change sides

Edited July 28, 2015 by SharpeXB

[Maxyman]

RoF is different after all. It must be a server setting, but here everyone is either red or blue, front line, ground targets and airfields, it switches when youchange sides

That's because WW1 is different to WW2. Why is it a problem if it's a configurable option?

[SharpeXB]

That's because WW1 is different to WW2. Why is it a problem if it's a configurable option?

RoF uses the same game engine so I'm using it as an example.

True WWI is more static so I suppose there's no confusion when there's blue targets in red territory.

Those RoF screenshots are from the same server so maybe it's a mission design option.

IIRC the blue side means "Friendly" and red means "enemy", it will switch colors if you switch teams. Personally I never had any problems with that.

The target icons aren't switching colors when you switch sides.

Are you seriously suggesting that "enemy == red, friendly == blue" is a difficult concept for people to understand?

 

In Russia "red" are friendlies ;-) I'm sure that's why the option is in the menu. In any case all that's needed is for all the icons to change color like in RoF. Although sometimes that's not how it works there either so now I am confused. Look at the new RoF examples and they're different from the first one I posted and they're from the same server at different times. Edited July 28, 2015 by SharpeXB

[Maxyman]

In WW1 the enemy is red for every country involved - no ambiguity. In post-1917 Russia the enemy is blue in military topography.

[unreasonable]

My recollection is that 1980s NATO conventions dictated that NATO forces were Blue and the Warsaw Pact were Orange! 

 

Apparently naming the WP as Red was considered too provocative. Unlike, say, basing neutron bomb bearing intermediate range missiles in Europe.

[Matt]

It has to be set in the mission, if icons should switch colors when you switch side. Nothing the server admin or the devs can do about it (unless the server admin makes the missions).

Edited July 28, 2015 by Matt

[von_Greiff]

Red is enemy! I switch as well!

 

yours

v.Greiff

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

It is selectable in the GUI. I'm not sure why this is much of a problem. Once a color has been selected it shouldn't take more than a day to get used to the concept. I'm finding it really hard to not post something snarky here.

[SharpeXB]

 

It is selectable in the GUI. I'm not sure why this is much of a problem. Once a color has been selected it shouldn't take more than a day to get used to the concept. I'm finding it really hard to not post something snarky here.

No, that's not the issue. Check out the maps above. Apparently the mission design can have the objective icons switch with the sides color or remain fixed. So you can have red friendly icons when you're on the blue team. And the setting changes with every mission.

Seems like the obvious solution is to just have them switch so all the icons on one side are the same color. Whichever that is.

I've played RoF for like 5 years and only noticed this now there and on BoS...

[JtD]

We're used to Axis=Blue and Allied=Red for more than a decade, guess it didn't work as good as everyone playing Il-2 thought.

[=AVG=Zombie]

German side should be a rainbow swatch....

[J4SCrisZeri]

I'm on my phone but I thought team colors were a selectable option in the GUI.

yes thanks god they are, I've been used to blue enemies for years, and the default red=enemy was driving me insane

[Jade_Monkey]

Like some people said, the issue is not with the team colors, but with the icons on the maps (trains, factories etc).

I guess it's up to the mission builders to either code them properly to switch according to the side you choose, or to reach a consensus and be consistent.

[=FI=Blue2]

 

 

I do like the word niggle.

Well, it does rhyme with wiggle, jiggle and giggle, so what's not to like? 

 

Yeah, I've noticed this and don't consider it a big deal.  But I agree that it's hard to conceive a good reason for the object icons to be opposite color from everything else.

[SharpeXB]

For today's live fire excercise, all you guys who normally have blue arm bands will wear red ones. Don't worry. Everything will be fine...

[6./ZG26_Emil]

[Bearcat]

In IL2 red is allies blue is axis. For me that is just how it is.

[LLv24_Zami]

In IL2 red is allies blue is axis. For me that is just how it is.

That's the way it is.

[MadisonV44]

To simplify let's forget "Friendly" or "Ennemy" planes. "Axe" or "Allied" is a clear way to identify the sides and adequate in most of cases. For more than 10 years 80% of people there have been flying IL-2 where they used to associate Axe with Blue and Allied with Red. Where's the problem guys ?  

 

Anyway it's not a problem since you can configure in in your setup. 

[FuriousMeow]

I actually see what Sharpe is talking about, the rest of you are missing it or too caught up in either keeping things the same for some reason even though each game developer has their own approach - or thinking he wants it to go back to that way even though that is not what he's saying.

 

He's saying that in some missions, I've only noticed it online, the ground targets that you should be covering up show up as the enemy's color and the enemy's target shows up as the friendly assigned color. This is a problem in some missions because that indeed is confusing, how are the enemy's ground vehicles on my side of the lines and my ground vehicles/factories are on the enemy's side of the lines? It's a problem with the mission assigning incorrect colors to ground targets. It's all ground targets too, not just one or two.

Edited August 3, 2015 by FuriousMeow

[coconut]

There is not much to agree on. From a mission designer's perspective, there is the correct way of doing things, which is the way the devs have implemented, and the incorrect way, which is closer to what many people prefer, but can't be made to work in all situations. Let me explain that:

 

In the mission editor, you get to pick the icon type and the background color (used for the label and the lines). You cannot pick the foreground color. Instead, the icon type encodes whether the icon means "attack an enemy asset", or "defend a friendly asset". The game will then show the first kind using the enemy color (red by default) and the second kind using the friendly color (blue by default).

 

If the player does not change the default color settings, a mission designer can use the knowledge that friendly = blue and enemy = red to show Russian assets as red and German assets as blue. That doesn't work perfectly though, because airfields and planes on the map cannot be changed by the mission designer. This leads to the confusing inconsistency that OP reports. 

[Brano]

Red Army (RKKA) and its airforce (VVS) should be red,as the name suggests,eh?    

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsspiel_(wargame)

 

its up to game master

[SharpeXB]

It must be possible to change this setting in the ME, look at the screenshots below

 

IMO this is much easier to understand, you can just set for yourself whether you want Red or Blue to be the enemy (I am set for Red = enemy) . But here all the icons for each side are the same color.

Edited August 4, 2015 by SharpeXB