What can we expect with the MC.202?

[simplyjames]

Of all planes in il2 and maybe ww2 aircraft in general. I know the least about the MC .202. 

What can we expect when this plane comes out? How will it handle relative to the other planes in BoM and BoS? I see a lot of people excited for it but I don't know why since I know so little about it.

[Willy__]

Some say its the poor man's 109... 

[Finkeren]

At first you'll think it's incredibly underpowered....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

....then you'll discover, that Italian planes have their throttle control reversed.

[Finkeren]

Seriously though: The similarities to the 109 are obvious, and therefore it's propably makes sense to analyze how it differs from the 109:

 

Performance-wise it'll propably be somewhere between the E-7 and F-2 in BoM which would malebog significantly inferior to the F-4 we know from BoS in all but climb rate.

 

The climb rate is quite high, so very much like the Bf 109 G2 in BoS, the answer to almost any situation will be to climb. Especially when going up against sluggish climbers like the P-40.

 

It'll propably be more temperamental in handling. It lacks automatic slats, and I imagine that the asymetrical wings will propably give it fairly weird roll characteristics.

 

It will be poorly armed, especially if fitted only with the standard armament of two Breda-Safat 12.7mm in the cowling. Two HMGs might not sound so bad compared to other lightly armed fighters in BoM like the MiG-3 and Bf 109 F2, but the Italian guns were for some reason poorly synchronised, meaning they had a rate of fire of only around 550 rounds/minute (the Soviet UBS manages nearly double that rate)

 

The really interesting thing for me, is to see how the gunsight is going to be positioned. As we saw in todays pics, the reflector plate itself is raised up on some thin rods. Maybe we'll actaully be able to have direct line of sight to targets under the sight, making deflection shooting much, much easier.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Finkeren

[unreasonable]

It will come with a selection of stylish but rather flashy skins.

 

It will refuse to fly at all between 1 and 4 pm.

 

Personally I am rather looking forward to something different!

[clayman]

She'll fly like a date with Sophia Loren.

[ShamrockOneFive]

It's a pretty interesting aircraft. Shares an engine with the earlier Bf109s, has some fairly beautiful lines and a hand crafted appeal, a slightly unusual asymmetric wing design (to counter torque), the airframe is extremely solid, and supposedly the handling is considered very good although it won't win a turn fight and the firepower is decidedly terrible.

 

There's a pretty good discussion of the MC.202s flying from the developers right here: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?p=247004

 

I think the only reason this won't be a favourite online for many is the firepower. It'll take some serious effort to bring down an enemy plane. In IL-2 1946 I'd rather the single UBS on the front of a Yak than the twin Breda SAFAT 12.7mm. The muzzle velocity is low, the fire rate is terrible, and the hitting power is equally terrible. On the upside... IL-2 BoS/BoM has fewer DM quirks than IL-2 of old so it might not be quite as bad.

[[CPT]milopugdog]

It's a pretty interesting aircraft. Shares an engine with the earlier Bf109s, has some fairly beautiful lines and a hand crafted appeal, a slightly unusual asymmetric wing design (to counter torque), the airframe is extremely solid, and supposedly the handling is considered very good although it won't win a turn fight and the firepower is decidedly terrible.

 

There's a pretty good discussion of the MC.202s flying from the developers right here: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?p=247004

 

I think the only reason this won't be a favourite online for many is the firepower. It'll take some serious effort to bring down an enemy plane. In IL-2 1946 I'd rather the single UBS on the front of a Yak than the twin Breda SAFAT 12.7mm. The muzzle velocity is low, the fire rate is terrible, and the hitting power is equally terrible. On the upside... IL-2 BoS/BoM has fewer DM quirks than IL-2 of old so it might not be quite as bad.

 

You might have had problems because only Italians can use the pasta fighters to their maximum efficiency. It also depends on the guns, will they shoot meatballs, or sausages?

[Willy__]

Something tells me that the italians guns will be at least mediocre. MG's in BoS seems a lot more effective compared to other sims... at least thats the impression that I get 

[mattebubben]

am i the only one that feels that the Mc.202 feels kinda off at the battle of Moscow =P.

 

First saw service on the eastern front untill August may 1942.

And even then it was no where close to moscow.

 

It did see service at the Battle of stalingrad though.

 

Personally id rather theyd have added the IAR 80 (or the 81)

 

=>

 

First of all its an aircraft that served on the easternfront from day one of Operation Barbarossa while it did not see action in the battle of moscow (as they where stationed farther south) its plausible (much more so then Mc.202s since those where not on the eastern fron untill may 42 as stated =P )

The IAR also served over stalingrad.

 

Its also a very interesting aircraft that would have plenty of upgrade options.

 

But then Again none of the "Bonus" aircraft for Stalingrad or Moscow fit in perfectly for the battles.

[Finkeren]

Actually the La-5 Series 8 fits perfectly for the Battle of Stalingrad, but otherwise you're right. The Premium aircraft are just aircraft which the devs really want to do, even though they do have to roughly fit the rest of the planeset and timeframe. In the case of the BoM premiums both happen to fit BoS rather nicely, but both have relatively low performance, which will put them at a severe disadvantage against the BoS planeset, which is why I think they're put in with the BoM planes     

[4thFG_Cap_D_Gentile]

The 202's gave Spit 5's a hard time in the Mediterranean (pilot accounts), so I guess it should fare quite well against the Russian planes in bos. Nozzle velocity of their guns were nothing to write home about though.

[Finkeren]

The 202's gave Spit 5's a hard time in the Mediterranean (pilot accounts), so I guess it should fare quite well against the Russian planes in bos.

Well, it doesn't change the fact that both the Macchi and the Spit Mk. V are early/mid 1941 fighters and we're comparing them to late 1942 fighters.

 

The Spit Mk. V wasn't really that impressive to begin with. In performance it was clearly inferior to even the early Bf 109 Fs with the old DB 601N engine.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Pretty much spot on. If we're looking at performance levels than the P-40E and MC.202 fit extremely well into the BoM planeset. They are both East front fighters... So they fit the flavour but the MC.202 didn't see Moscow service. Both we can use at Stalingrad although they won't have the performance to keep up really. I think it makes sense when you think about things from the perspective of performance levels compared to the aircraft that ship in the Normal edition as well as overall interest. The IAR80/81 is interesting but far less known and its not what I'd call a high performance fighter (BTW: I know the IAR well... favouring it to all of the 109s I could pick from just because I like to fly something different ).

 

The late model Spitfire V with the +16lb is not too bad but really by mid 1942 its not competitive in the speed arena. They rushed the Spitfire IX into production when it was determined that the Mark VIII and its refinements were taking too long to get to production and that was quite a bit more competitive with the mid to late 1942 set that we see at Stalingrad.

[LukeFF]

am i the only one that feels that the Mc.202 feels kinda off at the battle of Moscow =P

 

Jason has stated the reason for aircraft like the C.202 is that they are interesting aircraft that may or may not have taken part in the campaign being depicted. As others have already said, the La-5 fits the bill of a plane that actually was at Stalingrad. 

Edited July 19, 2015 by LukeFF

[TWC_Ace]

Funny...I didnt know around 30 of them were used by NDH forces...only country using them apart from Italy/Germany...hope this skin will make into the sim

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Edited July 20, 2015 by blackram_

[Weegie]

Oh yes yes yes I do like that skin as well. That would be brilliant

[Finkeren]

Funny...I didnt know around 30 of them were used by NDH forces...only country using them apart from Italy/Germany...hope this skin will make into the sim

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Only used them once the Legion returned home from their service with JG 52 though. AFAIK the Croats never flew them on the Eastern Front.

[TWC_Ace]

Oh they did

https://www.ww2incolor.com/other/MC202-CROAT-3.html

 

Btw devs already stated plane skins which never saw eastern front are welcome too....for some reason skin suggestion topic was closed too soon....

Edited July 20, 2015 by blackram_

[Finkeren]

I don't see anything in the link to suggest that the Croatian MC 202s were ever on the Eastern Front. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere, that the Croatian Air Legion only recieved Macchis after their return home from service with JG 52.

 

But you're right about non-Eastern Front skins being fine for BoS, no problem there.

[Ballermann]

https://defenceoftherealm.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/supermarine-spitfire-vb-vs-macchi-c-202-folgore/

[EAF19_Marsh]

 

The late model Spitfire V with the +16lb is not too bad but really by mid 1942 its not competitive in the speed arena. They rushed the Spitfire IX into production when it was determined that the Mark VIII and its refinements were taking too long to get to production and that was quite a bit more competitive with the mid to late 1942 set that we see at Stalingrad.

 

The later Spit Vs were good to 10,000 ft and then dropped off somewhat compared to the Merlin 60 variants, but even so 1,400hp is not bad - it would have been very competitive against the 1942-43 VVS.

 

The 202 needs a nice sunny map

[TWC_Ace]

I don't see anything in the link to suggest that the Croatian MC 202s were ever on the Eastern Front. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere, that the Croatian Air Legion only recieved Macchis after their return home from service with JG 52.

 

But you're right about non-Eastern Front skins being fine for BoS, no problem there.

Second sentence in the article....

I don't see anything in the link to suggest that the Croatian MC 202s were ever on the Eastern Front. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere, that the Croatian Air Legion only recieved Macchis after their return home from service with JG 52.

 

But you're right about non-Eastern Front skins being fine for BoS, no problem there.

You are right..black one 202 wasnt used in the eastern front but was flown by eastern front cro ace....sry for confusion

[Ace_Pilto]

It was always a good match-up with the P-40 in old Il-2. I'd say you can expect a competent all round fighter for 1941, if a little under-gunned.

[150GCT_Veltro]

We can expect a very tough aircraft with a very good climb rate, but a poor armament. However, italian 12,7 did provide explosive rounds. We should also have a very high structural tolerance (max speed) during the diving escape. This has been reported by several pilots (Macchi 202 and 205).

 

We couldn't fly it against IL2 for sure.

[BeastyBaiter]

I don't think the armament will be a major issue in BoS/BoM. Unlike other CFS's that make heavy use of HP based systems, BoS makes it so that it's more a matter of what you hit rather than how hard you hit the plane overall. In the hands of a good marksman, the 202 will be shooting out engines and killing pilots just fine. As for flight performance, it may not be as overpowering as a 109 or 190 is compared to the Russian planes but it isn't going to be an underdog either. It's still going to be fairly nimble and a good climber. My guess is it will be a favorite among those who want to fly axis but also want to be a bit more sporting about the whole thing in MP. Right now you have to be pretty bad to do poorly in a 109 or 190. The 202 may offer good axis pilots an option for a more evenly matched fight. The 109E will do the same as well. I agree the 202 will fall short vs IL2's and Pe-2's though.

[Saurer]

How is the high altitude performance of the Mc 202 compared to the 109's and the Mig?

[SR-F_Winger]

overpowering as a 109 or 190 is compared to the Russian planes

Yeah, youre kidding - right?

 

EDIT: If thats truly youre opinion play something diffrent than normal mode dude.

In expert mode the russian planes (at least LA-5 and YAK-1) are such awesome performers. Saying theyre underperforming is just nuts.

Edited July 21, 2015 by JG4_Winger

[Finkeren]

Winger: I think he meant that the Bf 109s and to a lesser degree the Fw 190 have a comfortable advantage in general performance.

[Voidhunger]

I don't think the armament will be a major issue in BoS/BoM. Unlike other CFS's that make heavy use of HP based systems, BoS makes it so that it's more a matter of what you hit rather than how hard you hit the plane overall. In the hands of a good marksman, the 202 will be shooting out engines and killing pilots just fine. As for flight performance, it may not be as overpowering as a 109 or 190 is compared to the Russian planes but it isn't going to be an underdog either. It's still going to be fairly nimble and a good climber. My guess is it will be a favorite among those who want to fly axis but also want to be a bit more sporting about the whole thing in MP. Right now you have to be pretty bad to do poorly in a 109 or 190. The 202 may offer good axis pilots an option for a more evenly matched fight. The 109E will do the same as well. I agree the 202 will fall short vs IL2's and Pe-2's though.

Yeah, its better to have rata with mg's rather than cannons. Same for the 202. P40 will be true butcher bird Edited July 21, 2015 by Voidhunger

[jeanba]

 

 

We couldn't fly it against IL2 for sure.

I remember that in "1946", IA MC202 liked to make head on attacks againts Il2

[BeastyBaiter]

Yeah, youre kidding - right?

 

EDIT: If thats truly youre opinion play something diffrent than normal mode dude.

In expert mode the russian planes (at least LA-5 and YAK-1) are such awesome performers. Saying theyre underperforming is just nuts.

 

Both the 109 and 190 can out run, out climb and out dive them. Those are the attributes that matter if you know what you're doing. Their advantage increases as altitude increases as well. That's not to say good Yak and La pilots can't do well, they certainly can. But that doesn't change the fact that all three German fighters are clearly superior overall to anything currently on the Russian side. And I do play both sides in MP in both normal and expert. Typically I fly for which ever team has fewer players. My K/D ratio is around 8 to 1 flying a 190, it's 1 to 1 in a Yak. Oddly enough I find the I-16 more survivable and have a better K/D ratio with it. Hurrah for turn fighting 109's.

Edited July 21, 2015 by King_Hrothgar

[150GCT_Veltro]

How is the high altitude performance of the Mc 202 compared to the 109's and the Mig?

 

Edited July 21, 2015 by 150GCT_Veltro

[Willy__]

Not bad at all! The climbing performance surprised me 

[Matt]

Surprises me too, considering that it takes an F-4 longer to 6000 meters altitude, while having a more powerful engine and weighting about the same. Any more info on how those climb times were achieved (weight for instance)?

[150GCT_Veltro]

Surprises me too, considering that it takes an F-4 longer to 6000 meters altitude, while having a more powerful engine and weighting about the same. Any more info on how those climb times were achieved (weight for instance)?

 

2.930 Kg as reported above.

[150GCT_Veltro]

Engine pressure ecc. ecc.

 

Decollo - Take Off

Salita - Climb

Velocità orizzontale - Level

 

Normale - Normal

Eccezionale - Combat

Eccezionalissima - Emergency

 

Senza limiti - No limits

Edited July 22, 2015 by 150GCT_Veltro

[Finkeren]

Great find Veltro.

 

Wow, those are some pretty harsh restrictions.

[SR-F_Winger]

nice thread. thanks guys fo putting up all that info!

Rella looking forward to flying that stallion.

[=CFC=Conky]

Hello all,

 

I'll have to wait until the 202 arrives but it should be able to down IL2's, just don't shoot them where they're armoured, i.e., the wings. Not sure about BoS, but in the 'old' il2 sim, the outer wings were relatively fragile and you could wreck them quite easily with lightly armed kites.