Snow map discussion and questions

[AcesHigh]

It seems to me most of the questions posted in the developer questions section don't get responded to so I'm taking the one I have the greatest concern about and posting here to get others feedback.  Is anyone else concerned about the longevity of AO being a snow map?  From the videos all looks good and interesting but I wonder just how diverse and how long that area will keep our attention while flying.  Will it all begin to look the same after a while.     Based on what I could find I don't know if community retexturing for tiles is in or out? 

 

What the thoughts on the snow map throughout this community? 

 

 

 

[ThudThunder]

Yes, looking at flat snowy planes for hours on end will be boring.  I assume they are making a summer one as well.

[FuriousMeow]

If there is someone willing and capable enough, they could create a map for all to use. There's a user created map in RoF right now. There's also an online only map that is created solely for online servers in RoF.

 

Yes, all white might get boring - but site-seeing is a MSFS venture, WWII air combat over Stalingrad is this title's focus.

[J2_Trupobaw]

Yes, by my experience in RoF the winter maps are wonderful at first (especially if there's summer IRL), then they become tiring and depressing without you noticing it. In all my RoF careers that made it through the winter stage I was losing interest, starting to think that this career is getting boring and I should drop it... then spring hits, scenery changes and career is fun to play again. So yes, little concerned.

[AcesHigh]

Yes, looking at flat snowy planes for hours on end will be boring.  I assume they are making a summer one as well.

Actually I don't think they are at first, may come later if the game is successful (leads me to believe dlc?).   That came from one of the devs I believe, which also lead me to believe they would not allow modification of the tiles.  Again not official, just what I recall hearing somewhere.

 

I do think the map looks great with the tree's and bump map applied on the snow.   We've yet to really see a lot of buildings but the sparse populated areas I've seen in videos looks great.   I'm just concerned but hope I'm wrong about it getting old fast.

Edited October 22, 2013 by AcesHigh

[FuriousMeow]

Seriously it's Battle of Stalingrad in the middle of winter. It'd be like having a Mediterranean map and deciding the sand in north africa gets boring, so suddenly it's a Pacific Island chain.

[AcesHigh]

Seriously it's Battle of Stalingrad in the middle of winter. It'd be like having a Mediterranean map and deciding the sand in north africa gets boring, so suddenly it's a Pacific Island chain.

You're right, just wondering what others thought about it and if they had concerns or to hear what rumors they were hearing.   My original question in the dev question thread though was will the environment be dynamic in any way with changing snow levels, drifts, ice, water, objects other than cars.   Will they allow the player to mod the tiles.   I agree with you about the snow I just hope it's unique enough around the map it does not all start to blend together. 

[FuriousMeow]

In RoF there is a "mods" option. Unfortunately it's either all mods or none, so you could have people with invisible skins in the mods on option but the terrain can be modified or even a new one created - works online and offline (the server just has to operate in mods on mode).

 

If the terrain is acceptable enough (performance/completeness/etc wise) then it could probably be turned into an official map such as the Inspiration Island in RoF.

 

So I wouldn't worry too much about it, there might even be a non-historical map (as is in RoF) that has summer, autumn, and winter textures. We've already seen that they've created non-winter camo for these planes (could just be a future proofing for non-winter maps) so perhaps they plan on a green Stalingrad map.

 

They also typically answer the "Questions to devs" forum questions in the friday updates, not usually in the forum itself unless it's readily known/available information.

Edited October 22, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[LordNeuro*Srb*]

Well i hope there will be dirty snow and burnouts in snow and roads so it wont be all sterile white. And just like in rof i hope there will be same sesons maps changing. It would help a carier to for imersion.

Somthing like thise

http://drjohnejones.com/West%20Parks%20Web%2009/Volga%20River/P1070762.JPG

 

http://www.cs.trinity.edu/~dwimsatt/images/sovietinfantrydefendsfactory.jpg

 

But out side the stalingrad it self i guess all is like thise

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Soviet_Offensive_Moscow_December_1941.jpg

 

Picture is from moscow offensive but the point is the same.

[FuriousMeow]

Well, there won't be seasons changing during the release product as it covers battles that were during the winter. There was nothing other than snow.

 

Now having dirty snow, that will certainly break up the landscape - and make it more Battle of Stalingrad than pristine white snow everywhere.

 

Also, I hope conifers are introduced. There are only deciduous in RoF, but conifers need to be added in as they were certainly present.

Edited October 22, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[LordNeuro*Srb*]

Well battle for Stalingrad whent from avgust 1942 to februar 1943 so there should be same seson change for it, sumer , autumn and winter.

And from bos page

"The largest and most detailed recreation of the Battle of Stalingrad theatre ever modeled in a flight simulation with unique structures, buildings and landscapes"

"Historically correct reconstruction of all key operations of the Stalingrad battle"

So i think there will be a sesons maps for final relise of the game.

 

Just as i hope there will be a start of the battle for Stalingrad and bombings , destructubal bildings. Would be gr8 to start operation and the city is undemaged and u need to care the bombing missions to destroy factories and strategic points, as well as defenders.

Edited October 23, 2013 by LordNeuro*Srb*

[FuriousMeow]

There won't be, it doesn't cover all of the battle of Stalingrad - just a few operations - all winter.

 

The "largest" is in refernce to the size of the map. It is by far the largest map of that area.

 

It's in the dev diary:

 

Missions represent 5 main phases of the Battle of Stalingrad (the list and the names of the phases are not final).

 

1) Phase 1 - On the eve of the counter-offensive

2) Phase 2 - Operation "Uranus"

3) Phase 3 - Fight against air bridge

4) Phase 4 - Operation "Winter storm"

5) Phase 5 - Operation "Ring"

Edited October 23, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[ShamrockOneFive]

I do wonder how long it would be before we might see a summer map to encompass some of the earlier operations. The actual dimension of the map and the areas its covering work very well for both the summer and winter stages. The set pieces of the map would have to be altered... the Stalingrad Tractor Factory wouldn't have been busted up for example.

[Volkoff]

It seems to me most of the questions posted in the developer questions section don't get responded to so I'm taking the one I have the greatest concern about and posting here to get others feedback.  Is anyone else concerned about the longevity of AO being a snow map?  From the videos all looks good and interesting but I wonder just how diverse and how long that area will keep our attention while flying.  Will it all begin to look the same after a while.     Based on what I could find I don't know if community retexturing for tiles is in or out? 

 

What the thoughts on the snow map throughout this community? 

 

Personally, from what I have seen of the terrain, in terms of line, shape, form, color, and texture, the terrain is already highly captivating looking. I think that the final presentation of the map will be quite gratifying and that the closer I look at the map, the more I learn about the landscape, the greater my sensitivity to the unique and varied features of the map, the more I will enjoy the map. I believe that I will be able to use the map for many years, without getting bored. MJ

Edited October 23, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[Tone71]

Personally, from what I have seen of the terrain, in terms of line, shape, form, color, and texture, the terrain is already highly captivating looking. I think that the final presentation of the map will be quite gratifying and that the closer I look at the map, the more I learn about the landscape, the greater my sensitivity to the unique and varied features of the map, the more I will enjoy the map. I believe that I will be able to use the map for many years, without getting bored. MJ

 

Exactly. And personally I will be too busy flying my plane, managing my engine, shooting the enemy and getting shot at, to even start to get bored. No concerns here over the landscape.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Tone71

[J4SCrisZeri]

my point from the beginning. I'm not a snow scenarios lover at all, I fear I may get bored/visually unsatisfied very very soon...

[Dakpilot]

Quite possible, but they are releasing a flight sim based on the winter operations of Stalingrad  When in spring of next year it is working correctly at release (we can all hope)

 

Then I will impatiently be waiting for news of the next scenario, hopefully a summer one 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[FlyingNutcase]

The map as we've seen it is so much more immersive than previously that I can't see it getting dull for a long while. And the roads have natural curves. Phew - gotta love it! Depressing might be having to actually fly in that frozen landscape day after day, exhausted, stressed and knowing that if you get shot down you'll probably freeze to death.

 

But I'm sure we'll all find a non-winter map refreshing when it comes. ~

[6S.Manu]

Exactly. And personally I will be too busy flying my plane, managing my engine, shooting the enemy and getting shot at, to even start to get bored. No concerns here over the landscape.

 

 

Really I don't understand your concerns about the map: you have a mission to accomplish, as fighter or bomber... 

Edited October 23, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[6S.Manu]

Seriously it's Battle of Stalingrad in the middle of winter. It'd be like having a Mediterranean map and deciding the sand in north africa gets boring, so suddenly it's a Pacific Island chain.

 

But PTO is sooo boring... water, water everywhere. 

Edited October 23, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

You don't go to war and then ask your officer for a transfer because you got bored. You have a duty and have to fight wherever it is and how long it is necessary until final victory or complete defeat.

 

You guys should see this game as a unique chance of immersion in the russian front. To be bored is a situation that every soldier has to face and overcome in any war. You got to be alert or will be bounced when you least expect. Many died on real life this way I am sure.

[J4SCrisZeri]

 

Really I don't understand your concerns about the map: you have a mission to accomplish, as fighter or bomber... 

A mission, ok. But have you ever experienced the pleasure of flying around, doin' some free roaming in the skies, watching the landscape and the way it is nicely rendered by the graphic engine?

A flight sim is not just dogfhighting and bombing in my opinion.

[I/JG27_Rollo]

I personally wouldn't worry too much about that.

We'll have the entire city of Stalingrad to fly over, dozens if not hundreds of smaller towns or villages, fields, forests, frozen rivers and lakes etc.

Plenty of stuff to go sightseeing imo.

 

It's not Hoth after all...

(EDIT although there are some nice mountains as I just remembered...)

Edited October 23, 2013 by I/JG27_Rollo

[Matt]

I'm pretty sure you could just use the autumn and summer landscape graphics from RoF and port it over to BoS. Atleast that would work as a stand-in and for singleplayer.

 

And i see no reason why the devs wouldn't include an autumn or summer map/textures, if a some modder would release that (see the complete fantasy island map they added officially in RoF).

 

Of coures the frozen lakes/rivers could be a problem. I'm not sure if that would be possible to mod easily.

 

But we'll probably have a non-winter map, until everyone will be fed up with snow.

[Uufflakke]

I hope texture size will be 2048x2048 instead of the regular 1024x1024.

[6S.Manu]

A mission, ok. But have you ever experienced the pleasure of flying around, doin' some free roaming in the skies, watching the landscape and the way it is nicely rendered by the graphic engine?

A flight sim is not just dogfhighting and bombing in my opinion.

 

Never in a warbird.

In a "combat" flight simulators as IL2, RoF, Falcon or DCS, if I start up my plane it's because I have a mission to accomplish.   

 

Almost everybody can fly in RL, it's just about paying the bill and the immersion is something that a PC simulator will never provide.

 

But only few people can have a realistic fight in a warplane: I'm looking for that, being part of a great air battle.   

 

 

Edited October 23, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[Tone71]

A mission, ok. But have you ever experienced the pleasure of flying around, doin' some free roaming in the skies, watching the landscape and the way it is nicely rendered by the graphic engine?

A flight sim is not just dogfhighting and bombing in my opinion.

Sure, I do this all the time in the flight sims I play, I love flying whether on a mission or just sight seeing. I honestly believe you'll be able to do this in BoS and still think the landscape looks beautiful. Don't pine for green, embrace the snow!

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

You don't go to war and then ask your officer for a transfer because you got bored.

 

...

 

To be bored is a situation that every soldier has to face and overcome in any war. You got to be alert or will be bounced when you least expect. Many died on real life this way I am sure.

 

You are right, and the map itself looks absolutely wonderful. I have seen the real thing (from above too, even flying low), and the landscape seems very well done.

 

Having said all that, I personally enjoy flying over summer maps more. It has to do with enjoyment and immersing myself in the life of little pixel me in the cockpit. Jumping out of a plane or crawling from a belly landing in the dead of the Russian winter will most often be the start of a slow, agonizing death. There is no relief in reaching the ground safely, just the start of a very unpleasant mission to find somewhere to survive the night.

 

I spent my army days in the very North of Norway, in what is effectively the continuation of the Russians steps. I know winter.

 

By the same reason I do not enjoy flying on the Pacific maps in IL2, at least those where you are mostly far from land. I suppose I am a landlubber at heart.

 

I have no problem with the first map being a winter map, and the missions being winter missions. From what the devs have shown, the terrain is extremely well done. I do look forward to seeing a summer map though. So much nicer to fly over.

[rolikiraly]

I guess (I've never been there) Russian winter steppe is not the most 'exciting' landscape to look at from above. But i think the devs are doing rather well at making the map believable. 

 

Another question is Stalingrad itself. A huge, destroyed city with fortifications, ruins, wrecks, many iconic buildings should be quite epic to look at if it's made with plenty of details. Maybe huge smoke clouds from burning oil tanks (something like in the trailer)?  But i guess the city will probably be built with compromises because of lack of time and also performance issues?

[Crow]

I think the winter Stalingrad map offered the developers the best bang for the buck. It has historical significance, is centered around a battle popularized in modern media, and is relatively easy to create a highly accurate depiction of the area due to lots of very uncomplicated terrain over the majority of the area. This is what they needed in their initial release. I think eventually I'll get bored of Stalingrad, but it will take awhile and be very much dependent on the gameplay and community missions/mods. When this game has a successful launch hopefully they will look at a more complicated terrain and/or some other seasons.

[SYN_Bandy]

Don't want to be perceived as being a sh!t disturber, but after paying the BoS 'founder' price, I'll be pretty pissed if I have to then pay for a green map as part of an expansion.  I don't think that will happen, but stranger things have happened in the gaming industry.

 

While I doubt anyone wanted to start BoS in the winter, since the battle actually started at the end of the summer 1942, with the development schedule they set for themselves it of course makes sense.

I would eventually love to see Stalingrad in pristine shape in September gradually disintegrate with the Luftwaffe onslaught released as part of the campaign next year.  A lot of work to make a city crumble?  I would imagine, but wow!  Bragging rights there as a combat flight sim...

 

I have high hopes for this release, and time will time.

Edited October 24, 2013 by SYN_Bandy

[Tone71]

I would say, prepare to be pissed; I can't imagine they would create a summer map for free. Looking at the screens of the winter map, it seems like it'll be more work than just a few textures.

Personally, I wouldn't mind paying for a summer version, depending of course on the price!

[rolikiraly]

I don't even expect a summer version of the same area (1942 summer). I think they will simply make a summer map of the Kuban front and sell it (new season, new area) maybe together with a new pack of planes? It's just speculation of course, but it could help them avoid complaints like 'i already paid for this map'

[Fifi]

A mission, ok. But have you ever experienced the pleasure of flying around, doin' some free roaming in the skies, watching the landscape and the way it is nicely rendered by the graphic engine?

A flight sim is not just dogfhighting and bombing in my opinion.

 

I agree with what you said.

In all sims, it's a pleasure to take off just for the nice rendering, the fun of flying, the flying feeling...if the sim is well done of course. Furthermore among different seasons!

All this white everywhere all the time, on flat landscape, could be for sure boring very fast once we'll get all the planes handling IMO.

I really hope to see other seasons and maps very soon. 

[Heywooood]

complaints will come no matter what - we see that already on these boards....

 

What would be a nice feature is taking off from a strip that has no snow on the ground just as a light snowfall begins and landing an hour or two later at the same base now covered in snow

 

Next generation probably...dynamic snow accumulation modeling lol

[SCG_Neun]

You don't go to war and then ask your officer for a transfer because you got bored. You have a duty and have to fight wherever it is and how long it is necessary until final victory or complete defeat.

You guys should see this game as a unique chance of immersion in the russian front. To be bored is a situation that every soldier has to face and overcome in any war. You got to be alert or will be bounced when you least expect. Many died on real life this way I am sure.

I understand the bleakness of the map, but I have to agree with you, it just happens to go hand in hand with the historical facts of this particular season of the battle. I am anxious to see the summer map as well....