I seem to have finally come to terms with BOS... some thoughts

[Mmaruda]

Where to begin? Perhaps a disclaimer.

 

First and foremost, IL2 BOS has been a huge disappointment for me around release time. I believed in the project, it seemed impossible to screw up - just make ROF with WWII planes and we are good. As many people here might know, it was not like that at all. There was a lot of discussion, hate, anger and all that, but all in all, I think people (me included) expected a better and more modern IL2 1946 and that is not what BOS is. A lot of time have passed, I was discouraged, didn't play the game and was sure it's not for me and there is no point in playing it, so I didn't.

 

At some point this week, after a discussion with my Falcon squad mates about DCS and Steam keys (or lack of them, you know what I mean), I was curious to see how other companies handle this, so I came here and found that it's actually possible to get a Steam version of BOS and so I did. And once I had it, I figured I might as well play the damn thing, not expecting much, just to see what is going on and leave back to playing Falcon and DCS.

 

For some inexplicable reason I clocked 5 hours on it now and still intend to play more.

 

Here is the deal. The campaign and single-player aspect aside, it's actually a damn good sim. The graphics and sound make for an unparalleled immersive experience and that was what I always objectively stated and it's a fact. What is more interesting is the physics, and those are impressive as well. The FMs seem far better to me now, than a couple of months ago, a lot of things got ironed out and improved, landing are a bit tricky still, but once you know how, it's challenging but logical and very... hmmm... intuitive.

 

I would compare it to DCS WWII aircraft and to some point (clicky pits and advanced plane operation asside) it seems better, or at least more logical. In DCS, unless you do things exactly by the book, you will crash. IL2 is not easy, but lets you figure it out in a logical way and still allows you to correct mistakes. If anyone is familiar with driving sims, it's like iRacing and rFactor 2. In iRacing once you pass the point where you lose all grip, there is no way to save the car and physics have nothing to say here. That is how DCS works - screw up on take-off or landing and you can't really correct the error. IL2 on the other hand let's you feel what is happening better, same goes to stalls and spins. Not sure if that is more realistic, but definitely more plausible. I mean someone had to test fly those machines when they were first built and there was no manual yet, right? Anyone, not sayin better, more realistic just more... intuitive and in result more fun.

 

Now here comes the real kicker as to why anyone should play BOS - combat! You have the setting, the map, the planes, a good FM, very accurate visuals and what is more best damn damage model ever made. This really is THAT important. DCS seems to feel more realistic, more proper at first, more detailed, but it all goes to hell when you shoot at someone. I blast a Mustang with all the hate and devastation a D9 can deliver and see... it's full of those little holes like from a 9mm pistol and still flying. Scripted HP based damage model - completely killing the fun of WWII dogfighting. 1946 had it better than that and BOS is just king of the field when it comes damage modelling. Debris from a shot up plane can actually damage you craft when they hit you, how awesome is that? To me that makes all the difference - aiming guns at weak spots of the enemy is what really delivers kills in WWII aircraft sims. Apart from the old 1946 IL2, nothing comes close to BOS and it's a whole different ball game here.

 

Weather is another cool factor. You would think that taking of and landing the DCS 109 K4 with crosswind is an epic feat. Try to do that in BOS and... it's a bigger challenge. Seriously, you are all over the place, but somehow you still feel what is going on with the plane.

 

So these are the things a like and like very much. The devs have created the base for the best WWII sim ever made... potentially. The campaign is still a major let down. I don't even care about the lack of pilot career and all, I somehow struggled through the horrible, terrible, painfully arcade 'tutorial' missions and went on with it. It's acceptable I guess. Expert mode, full mission length, take off, navigate, find the enemy, kill them and get back home. I don't hate it. It's ok. Just wish it could be better, more unpredictable, more fun. Multiplayer... It's ok as well. And here I think lies the biggest problem. It's airquake. Unless there are some squadrons on a server and the people there plan a mission and try to execute it, it's not much beyond the dogfight (though as mentioned before, dogfights in BOS are great and online they are a brilliant adrenaline rush).

 

I seem to have come to terms with BOS. I lowered my expectations and was able to find aspects of the game that still surprised and impressed me (hey, check out the start up and shutdown sequence, stuff is animated and tech chat says what the steps are!). I begin to like BOS now. It has grown on me (and made me some sweet Steam money from those quite expensive cards lol).

 

However, I am still far from even considering throwing money at the monitor for BOM. I know Jason is working with someone to get a sort of DGEN into BOS and I am looking forward to that. I know there are some good missions made by community members and I plan to try them out once I have time on the weekend. One thing actually bothers me and that is the multiplayer aspect. If BOS could do away with the dogfight mode in MP and replace it with objective focused gameplay, that would be a game changer. I was actually wondering, since the SP mission generator is capable of making those simple missions in the campaign, would it be possible to put it to works in MP mode? Because that would be awesome. Nothing too fancy, just objectives like destroy this site to win or prevent this site from being destroyed, instead of kill X amount enemies to win. Think Counter Strike with planes.

 

Anyway, just to sum up, I am done with my dislike towards the game. There are things here, underappreciated things that really make it shine. It can be very enjoyable, provided you don't expect it to be something else (like Falcon BMS with WWII planes lol). It just needs one little spark to ascend into greatness and I would assume this probably should be to the MP aspect since it seems easie to do. Not sure what the devs would say to that, but I am very curious.

 

PS I would just like to say, it's very liberating to ditch the avionics and procedures and get into a sim that is more about flying and dogfighting. It still saddens me that BOS is not what I expected it to be, but at the moments where it really shines, like getting you first kill online in fair dogdight with a superior plane is something... Oh hell, here is a rare Pepe to depict how it feels: http://i.imgur.com/1aPsvlr.png

 

 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Plenty of stuff we all want but as a sim it's brilliant

 

Dont get me started on HL or co-ops lol

[Mmaruda]

Well as for co-ops, I think it is quite possible to do this and make it be great. Some time ago, my Falcon squad and I were invited by 1PL to do flight in ROF on the syndicate server. The guys planned a mission, we went in at a given time, made a bomber formation plus escort of almost 20 people and it was a blast that ended in a successful run and the kicker was that Lucas from 1PL shot down Requiem as he got greedy and attacked our whole bomber formation when we attempted to land. Trully epic it was. My humble MP experience in BOS shows no reason why such a thing could not be repeaded in BOS. However, it would be great if the game had some sort of mechanism to incentivise random players to team up and cooperate online.

 

Perhaps a Battlefield mechanics, where you have to join a squad, you respawna together, maybe do a vote on who is lead and then fly together, get points for assists etc. I know it sounds arcade, but I feel something like that could provide the mechanics that would allow a better online experience for those who are not part of organised squadrons and in turn make the overal experience better for anyone, including noobs who could learn to fly WITH people that way.

[Freycinet]

Multiplayer... It's ok as well. And here I think lies the biggest problem. It's airquake. Unless there are some squadrons on a server and the people there plan a mission and try to execute it, it's not much beyond the dogfight (though as mentioned before, dogfights in BOS are great and online they are a brilliant adrenaline rush).

 

...

 

If BOS could do away with the dogfight mode in MP and replace it with objective focused gameplay, that would be a game changer. I was actually wondering, since the SP mission generator is capable of making those simple missions in the campaign, would it be possible to put it to works in MP mode? Because that would be awesome. Nothing too fancy, just objectives like destroy this site to win or prevent this site from being destroyed, instead of kill X amount enemies to win. Think Counter Strike with planes.

 

Good post.

 

I think you replied to your own question (above): it is guys like you in squads like yours that will make Multiplayer shine. The devs can deliver a lot but it takes players to make MP come alive and squads to make MP more than airquake. The ball is in your half of the field now.

 

Same goes with the MP game modes. I think it is possible to make great objective-based missions as it is now, but flight sims always have been and always will be sandbox games: it takes dedicated fans to use the instruments at hand (mission builder) to make online play shine in all the modes possible.

 

I think and hope this sim will begin to really gather players and squads so we can reach the critical mass where high-quality content percolates up all by itself from the user base, just the way it happened with il-2 Classic.

 

Maybe leaving winter behind and getting sunny weather and green fields will herald a new era for Il-2: It may "move forward into broad, sunlit uplands".... :-)        I hope so!  

[Finkeren]

Very nice write-up

 

You seem to have grasped most of the points that make BoS brilliant in my book - as well as the few major shortcomings.

 

As for the negative points that still endure: Yes, they are lamentable, but if the months since release has proven anything it is, that the devs are comitted to this project and determined to make it better still, and that they are actually listening to the players and doing their best to deliver on requests. Even in terms of SP experience I believe we'll get there eventually.

 

From the start development has been solid with milestones hit at an impressive rate and few and short delays (much unlike most DCS development, unfortunately) With BoM well underways I believe we'll see the sim expand in scope to something resembling even IL-2 1946 in the coming years.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Finkeren

[Y-29.Silky]

The campaign and single-player aspect aside, it's actually a damn good sim. The graphics and sound make for an unparalleled immersive experience and that was what I always objectively stated and it's a fact... is the physics, and those are impressive as well.

 

I would compare it to DCS WWII aircraft and to some point (clicky pits and advanced plane operation asside) it seems better, or at least more logical.  

 

Now here comes the real kicker as to why anyone should play BOS - combat! You have the setting, the map, the planes, a good FM, very accurate visuals and what is more best damn damage model ever made. 

 

These were my points even back in the beta days. It is literally unparalleled in graphics, immersiveness, feel of flight, and especially damage models. But the forum [Edited] who only played BoS for 2 hours kept spewing their "Clod is way better", "This game is terrible." bs without really flying it. The aspects mentioned above far out weigh the shortcomings of this game and always have.

 

Glad you gave it a second chance!

Edited July 14, 2015 by Bearcat

[ENDLESSS]

These were my points even back in the beta days. It is literally unparalleled in graphics, immersiveness, feel of flight, and especially damage models. But the forum trolls who only played BoS for 2 hours kept spewing their "Clod is way better", "This game is terrible." bs without really flying it. The aspects mentioned above far out weigh the shortcomings of this game and always have.

 

Glad you gave it a second chance!

I have flown both CLOD and BOS and I have to say I love them both I don't understand how some as you mentioned don't want to expand on their sim experience and pin one against each other when in fact they are two completely different Sims different fms completely different plane sets

[Scarecrow]

Good write up. All three titles do stuff well and some stuff not so well. Mostly single player aspects not so well   jk

[LLv24_Zami]

Good post, you state pros and cons of the current BoS very well.

 

When the SP and especially campaign gets to the right level this is the king of WWII sims. And I believe it will get there, just hope it won't take too much time.

[USAF77]

I bought the game for $50 and must say its a nice looking sim. The tech issues i was having were solved by reinstalling the game. Strangly I kinda like the missions you have to accomplish before the unlocks, probably because there is good immersion. The lack of MP action is a disappointment however.

 

I have no regrets. Its really a "pretty" game just to look at and quite immersive. But I wouldnt pay $100 for an IL2 title.

[Bearcat]

Good post Mmaruda

 

These were my points even back in the beta days. It is literally unparalleled in graphics, immersiveness, feel of flight, and especially damage models. But the forum [Edited] who only played BoS for 2 hours kept spewing their "Clod is way better", "This game is terrible." bs without really flying it. The aspects mentioned above far out weigh the shortcomings of this game and always have.

Glad you gave it a second chance!

 

That has been my sentiment all along as well because while there were improvements to BoS along the way.. much of what he is describing was there almost from day one.

 

I have flown both CLOD and BOS and I have to say I love them both I don't understand how some as you mentioned don't want to expand on their sim experience and pin one against each other when in fact they are two completely different Sims different fms completely different plane sets

 

Better late than never..

[Guest deleted@50488]

Very nice analysis of what BoS really is, and pretty much what I think ( btw I'm also jcomm at DCS, and at the server where you sometimes are :-) ).

 

I believe you captured exactly my (and those of many of us... ) feelings regarding this sim.

 

Coming to combat sims mostly because of my endless search for the most realistic flight dynamics, I found in il2 probably the most believable, overall, flight and physics dynamics I ever found in any sim.

[StickMan]

I always said at release it had all the basic elements of a great sim. It just needed to get content and have time to mature. Too many guys decided it wasn't a 10 yr old 1946 with updated graphics and the same amount of content. They all then decided to hit the review sites spamming them with negativity. Hopefully more guys will give this game a second chance and come back with an open mind. They will see how good it really is. Really, who needs a cliky pit? You know I really thought it was cool the first few times I started up a 109 or a spit in cliffs. Then it got tedious. I thought "I wish I had a hot key for this and could just watch the sequence happen." and in BOS, I can. However I am fearful the damage is done. We will never get the amount of new blood we need because of some doom and gloom reviewers. I hope I am wrong. The OP's post did give me a glimmer of that hope.

Edited July 14, 2015 by GeneralZod

[Mmaruda]

I always said at release it had all the basic elements of a great sim. It just needed to get content and have time to mature. Too many guys decided it wasn't a 10 yr old 1946 with updated graphics and the same amount of content. They all then decided to hit the review sites spamming them with negativity. Hopefully more guys will give this game a second chance and come back with an open mind. They will see how good it really is. Really, who needs a cliky pit? You know I really thought it was cool the first few times I started up a 109 or a spit in cliffs. Then it got tedious. I thought "I wish I had a hot key for this and could just watch the sequence happen." and in BOS, I can. However I am fearful the damage is done. We will never get the amount of new blood we need because of some doom and gloom reviewers. I hope I am wrong. The OP's post did give me a glimmer of that hope.

 

There are aspects of click-able pits that add to the game very much beside the start up - stuff like switching fuel tanks in the P-51 every five minutes to keep the plane balanced etc. To me it never gets old since it gives me a feeling of learning about how those vintage birds worked, but I do not mind not having that in BOS really, as long as the engine does not just magically start and I can see all those valves, pumps and levers move and tech chat telling me what is what, I get my dose of knowledge and remain happy.

 

As for the reviews and "new blood" influx... Sorry, but here I cannot agree and have to be critical hre. For one, the Metacritic reviews the devs were raging about are a joke. No one in their right mind treats Metacritic seriously. If anything, Metacritic is an indicator of some trends like bad customer dissatisfaction and bad customer approach, and that is actually what has happened here a few months back and that approach of deleting posts, propaganda thread (oh name 10 things you like about BOS so we could feel better about ourselves and ban people for off-topic) - that happened, cannot be denied and that caused the Metacritic trend and various discussions on other forums. If you don't treat your paying customers with respect and openness, this is what you get in the age of Internet - even big companies such as EA begin to understand that. It's 2015 and even Steam offers refunds, because that is something totally obvious when it comes to fair and respectful customer treatment. Now with the flight sim community, there is so few people playing these types of games, that one simply cannot afford bad relations with the community, because it's a small community and you end up with no customers and bankrupt. So during the whole "no campaign and forced unlocks" discussion people who paid like 80 bucks back when BOS was just a promise, people who trusted the devs with their hard earned cash get an answer that they are not entitled to anything and the game would have been funded even if no one paid a dime for early access. That was slap in the face for me an many others and the reaction came as expected - many people devoted their time and effort to pay 1CGS back and many others like me, decided they do not want anything to do with 1CGS and BOS anymore.

 

Thus Battle of Stalingrad was and is a great sim, that suffered due to poor customer approach and some emotional reactions from the devs (yeah I get it, you get emotional when someone craps all over your hard work, but it's very unprofessional).

 

For two... there is no influx of "new blood", because there is no influx of sim players at all. Those who are interested in flying games, go play War Thunder - it's free, has a larger player base, does unlocks better and has more content, not to mention being easier.

 

I still stand by what I said about the game in my first post, but a large part of the blame on how it was received falls rightfully on 1CGS for not being honest from day one about what will NOT be in the game and for very poor handling of the crisis that ensued when people were disappointed and raged about it. The good things about BOS have been buried under the drama.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I don't know if you are aware of this but many publishers tie bonus's for devs to metacritic reviews so they do take them seriously. Unfortunately in the 'age of the internet' a relatively small but vocal number of people can trash a game's reputation and in the case of BOS some of the people giving ridiculous scores had an agenda and wanted BOS to fail. The devs might not have been able to please everyone but they have done a brilliant job of keeping us informed with constant updates, releasing patches on time (every time) and provided us additional content and maps in a very timely fashion.

 

I personally think we're a very hard group of people to please and if you think about it, it much be pretty demoralizing to see your work trashed on a daily basis. I think they've got more right that they got wrong and I expect they've probably had very strict budgets and time constraints imposed on them by the publisher who must feel burned after CLOD. 

p.s I don't think it is unprofessional to get p**sed off when people unfairly attack your work at all. 

[Mmaruda]

Really?! They do that? That is just retarded - as you said, someone with an agenda can trash the score easily. Bonuses should be based solely on sales numbers.

 

Basically all drama with dissatisfied customers can always be avoided in a simple way - refunds! It's just a fair business policy and the law of most countries guaranties them. Battling your community members on forums is just... well bad and pointless and a lot of work... Pointless work also. Take a look at the Project CARS - Ian Bell is currently hated by Nintendo fans, people who do not like the game, AMD owners and even people who like the game. Guess how well that is going to influence crowdfunding of CARS 2?

[Dakpilot]

But there is no crowdfunding in Pcars 2, just goes to show what a small group can do to spin public perception of a non issue with mis-information, and this is what definitely happened to BoS.

 

Refunds would not have helped as most never even purchased the game, a rash of refunds would only have fuelled the potential or more mis-information.

 

Regardless, it is great that you are now enjoying BoS for what it is  (and pretty much was all along) and not pre-conceived ideas fomented by drama  the future is only looking brighter (and sunnier  )

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[LLv24_Zami]

Regardless, it is great that you are now enjoying BoS for what it is  (and pretty much was all along) and not pre-conceived ideas fomented by drama  the future is only looking brighter (and sunnier  )

 

+1

 

I think it would be best for everyone to stop looking back to those days of drama and start looking ahead. A lot has happened since and the future of BoS look`s indeed brighter.

[Freycinet]

I'll never understand the hater bandwagon that greeted Il-2: BoS... So many people with so much pent-up negativity... - Sad for them.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Well as for co-ops, I think it is quite possible to do this and make it be great. Some time ago, my Falcon squad and I were invited by 1PL to do flight in ROF on the syndicate server. The guys planned a mission, we went in at a given time, made a bomber formation plus escort of almost 20 people and it was a blast that ended in a successful run and the kicker was that Lucas from 1PL shot down Requiem as he got greedy and attacked our whole bomber formation when we attempted to land. Trully epic it was. My humble MP experience in BOS shows no reason why such a thing could not be repeaded in BOS. However, it would be great if the game had some sort of mechanism to incentivise random players to team up and cooperate online.

 

Perhaps a Battlefield mechanics, where you have to join a squad, you respawna together, maybe do a vote on who is lead and then fly together, get points for assists etc. I know it sounds arcade, but I feel something like that could provide the mechanics that would allow a better online experience for those who are not part of organised squadrons and in turn make the overal experience better for anyone, including noobs who could learn to fly WITH people that way.

 

By the way I strongly suggest you pop over to the esports & events section of the forum and check out some of the cool co-op stuff that has been going on in the last couple of months thanks to some very awesome and dedicated members.

 

We have flown in almost all of the DBS Co-Ops and they've been loads of fun. The Tangmere Pilots have also run one or two iirc and Syndicate did one a couple of months ago. If people enjoy this stuff then there is no reason we can't run more of them. 

 

If you want to see what they are like pop over to the video section, my youtube channel has videos of the co-ops and some of the French guys put videos up as well. Also The Tangmere guys posted a video or two of theirs.

 

Emil

[Mmaruda]

But there is no crowdfunding in Pcars 2, just goes to show what a small group can do to spin public perception of a non issue with mis-information, and this is what definitely happened to BoS.

 

Refunds would not have helped as most never even purchased the game, a rash of refunds would only have fuelled the potential or more mis-information.

 

Regardless, it is great that you are now enjoying BoS for what it is  (and pretty much was all along) and not pre-conceived ideas fomented by drama  the future is only looking brighter (and sunnier  )

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

Hate to break it to you, but there totally is crowdfunding in CARS 2, just no investment. http://www.wmdportal.com/projectnews/announcing-project-cars-2-sign-up-now/

 

As for refunds, it does not matter if it would 'help' or not, it would have been an honest thing to do and would definitely put the developers in good light. It's too late now and the damage is done. The game is pretty decent, but has a bad opinion because in wide circles 1CGS is considered the Ubisoft of flight sims.

 

By the way I strongly suggest you pop over to the esports & events section of the forum and check out some of the cool co-op stuff that has been going on in the last couple of months thanks to some very awesome and dedicated members.

 

We have flown in almost all of the DBS Co-Ops and they've been loads of fun. The Tangmere Pilots have also run one or two iirc and Syndicate did one a couple of months ago. If people enjoy this stuff then there is no reason we can't run more of them. 

 

If you want to see what they are like pop over to the video section, my youtube channel has videos of the co-ops and some of the French guys put videos up as well. Also The Tangmere guys posted a video or two of theirs.

 

Emil

 

I checked that section already and totally plan on joining to see how it is. My only concern is, that I probably won't be able to talk any of my mates to give BOS another shot and I don't want to end up being a 'lone wolf' somewhere in the middle of a fight. Do you guys use the official TS?

[System87]

Last few days Im back to playing BoS and i was amazed to see that people on Wings of Liberty actually fly to win the mission, there has been a lot of coop. This wasnt the case when i stoped playing 3-4 months ago, it was only dogfighting above airfields. NOW all this game needs is for people to start comming to TS (using chat for coop and teamwork is not good enough) and maybe we could move to other servers with good missions and no GPS like Syndicate or TWB Eagles Nest. Dogfighting is fun but teaming up with a few people and doing a bomb raid with fighter escorte is uncomparebly better then collecting frags.

[Georgio]

Good points and pretty much how I feel.

 

Personally I think you can't beat the 'good old days' of hyperlobby and the truly superb co-ops with objective based play as opposed to the quake-fest we have now.

Considering how long ago this was, it's more than surprising that we don't have better in this most modern and capable of sims.

[Dakpilot]

"Hate to break it to you, but there totally is crowdfunding in CARS 2, just no investment"

 

There is early access, and joining fee for WMD during development, but it totally is not crowdfunding in anyway that Pcars 1 was

 

Q: Do you really have to crowd-fund another title?

A: It's less about funding the title and more about allowing the community the opportunity to help, in a significant way, with the development of the game.
 

Originally Posted by Ian Bell

We don't need the money!! We are allowing those who are interested to join a full development process from scratch, to alter the direction and design of a AAA game. The fees are simply to ensure we don't have to keep answering questions like this...

 

Originally Posted by Ian Bell

The intention was always to allow a limited group to join in the development with us. We have no expectations of the members contributing more than about 10% of the development total.

 

Q: But isn't 50 for just a basic membership a little steep for a game?

A: The price points are set where they are to help prevent trolls and other people who aren't actually serious about helping from being a big problem. You have to want to help if you're willing to shell out serious money to be a WMD member.

 

Sorry for off topic but it is always better to let facts get in the way of general opinions,

 

Much in the same way that 1CGS have only released BoS/BoM, the decisions about other games were from an entirely different team/time period, comparing this team to UBI is again uninformed and very general opinion/spin

 

really not trying to be argumentative but there is always SO much opinion around on the internet that filtering the real facts is always not so easy

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[6./ZG26_Emil]

 

I checked that section already and totally plan on joining to see how it is. My only concern is, that I probably won't be able to talk any of my mates to give BOS another shot and I don't want to end up being a 'lone wolf' somewhere in the middle of a fight. Do you guys use the official TS?

 

It depends who is hosting the co-op. On the DBS ones we do use the official TS. The Tangmere guys, I'm not sure if they're running their co-ops every week and which TS but I know the mission/missions they ran were human versus AI.

 

There's plenty to love about BOS but it requires people to be a little more proactive compared to the old HL days of IL2....not really a big ask for the amount of fun you can have.

[Mac_Messer]

 

Same goes with the MP game modes. I think it is possible to make great objective-based missions as it is now, but flight sims always have been and always will be sandbox games: it takes dedicated fans to use the instruments at hand (mission builder) to make online play shine in all the modes possible.

Yes, I can play coop in CS:G0 aswell, I play coop in Depth aswell. Takes me 1 minute to setup and there are thousands of people online every day. I don`t need $100 game + $200 hardware to do that. I don`t need TS or a mic. And it is more fun than any sim made since 1946.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Mac_Messer

[SCG_Neun]

It's obvious that the Dev's are continuing to work on the game, and  I have to agree with Emil....it just takes a proactive approach to have some fun in this game.  There's just so much to do in here....when I divide my game time with the hours of enjoyment I've had flying BOS...well it's been a very good investment.  Breaking down things in terms of tasks for instance....navigational flying, target recognition, combat techniques and now with the Rata....yikes.....extend...extend....extend.  Movie  making.....messing with the mission builder, skins, bombers...well...not my cup of tea....but it's all there.  All packaged in a graphically immersive experience.  CLOD and BOS...two different great CFS/s each with their own strengths and limitations.  And like Zami said....time to move on......let the past.....be the past and let's look forward to all the progress planned for this game....

[Mac_Messer]

Really?! They do that? That is just retarded - as you said, someone with an agenda can trash the score easily. Bonuses should be based solely on sales numbers.

 

Basically all drama with dissatisfied customers can always be avoided in a simple way - refunds! It's just a fair business policy and the law of most countries guaranties them. Battling your community members on forums is just... well bad and pointless and a lot of work... Pointless work also. Take a look at the Project CARS - Ian Bell is currently hated by Nintendo fans, people who do not like the game, AMD owners and even people who like the game. Guess how well that is going to influence crowdfunding of CARS 2?

CARS devs pretty much lied about the AMD support. They did so much as 0 since SHIFT series to bring AMD users a better gameplay experience. Besides, the game fell short on MANY promises. And yes, CARS2 funding seems to bring more hate because of that. Another wet dream that will not become true.

 

Refunds in case of games activated through codes (ie. Steam) are not possible in some EU countries (statutory law).

Edited July 14, 2015 by Mac_Messer

[Mac_Messer]

 

"Hate to break it to you, but there totally is crowdfunding in CARS 2, just no investment"

 

There is early access, and joining fee for WMD during development, but it totally is not crowdfunding in anyway that Pcars 1 was

Yes, early access whic means that people who want to get in early have now to pay a minimum of 50 pounds instead of €10 with the same factual influence on the game which is illusive at best. A rip off.

[Ace_Pilto]

I'm in the same boat as OP, my first impressions weren't very good but I enjoy BoS more and more with each patch. looking forward to BoM and hopefully some Western front action, didn't Jason express some desire to make a P-47 sim at one stage long ago?

 

I'd be all over that like white on rice.

 

"As real as it gets." QFT

[KoN_]

There has been some " silly mistakes made by the Developers "  you cant blame the public for negative Reviews , this sim was doing fine until two weeks before release . Not even going there with this , i am still rallying the people in . I actally fly this sim and enjoy it . Yes it needs more content , It needs historic input , millions died in this conflict . lets not brush it under the carpet and forget .

[9./JG52Gruber]

I too have been flying BoS more after accepting it for what it is. There is a great potential there but the developers have to remove some barriers that they created. The unlocks have to go ASAP. Just last night myself and a few others tried to do some ground pounding at a time when multiplayer was completely dead. However, since they have standard edition and haven't played campaign it was one hurdle after another about who could fly what with which bombs. In the end they gave up and logged off. Whatever the devs thought they were accomplishing with the unlocks has backfired completely. For the record I have completed the campaign and unlocked everything and it was a tedious, miserable experience. Max 2X time compression was salt in the wound.

[Bearcat]

Really?! They do that? That is just retarded - as you said, someone with an agenda can trash the score easily. Bonuses should be based solely on sales numbers.

 

Basically all drama with dissatisfied customers can always be avoided in a simple way - refunds! It's just a fair business policy and the law of most countries guaranties them. Battling your community members on forums is just... well bad and pointless and a lot of work... Pointless work also. Take a look at the Project CARS - Ian Bell is currently hated by Nintendo fans, people who do not like the game, AMD owners and even people who like the game. Guess how well that is going to influence crowdfunding of CARS 2?

 

I don't think refunds were the answer either.. I think the devs did the right thing.. they stayed the course and here we are...

 

Refunds would not have helped as most never even purchased the game, a rash of refunds would only have fuelled the potential or more mis-information.

Regardless, it is great that you are now enjoying BoS for what it is  (and pretty much was all along) and not pre-conceived ideas fomented by drama  the future is only looking brighter (and sunnier  )

Cheers Dakpilot

 

+1 all around... the bottom line is folks are beginning to see BoS for what it is....

[Mmaruda]

I don't think refunds were the answer either.. I think the devs did the right thing.. they stayed the course and here we are...

 

Sorry but the way they "stayed the course" was kind of insulting to many people who paid them hard earned money... and here we are. Rufunds are the anwser, because regardless of what a given countries law requires, it's just a fair business policy and a sort of basis of fair trade and capitalism - if a customer is not satisfied with the product they can return it and get their money back within a given period of time.

 

The problem with BOS now is that many respectful virtual pilots who could contribute a great deal to the online aspect of the game and help it become a far better experience (which it has all the potential to become), simply stopped playing and left the to play something else, becasue they did not like how the devs handled the situation. It may be an unpopular opinion but it is a fact.

 

Looking from a perspective of time, many people ignored the good parts of the game, simply becasue they were enraged by the situation and the whole PR mess on these forums (deleting posts, banning people, saying that unless the Metacritic score goes up development will stop and such things). Hell, I was determined not to even touch BOS with a long stick covered in rags and barbed wire after that not to mention buying anything from 1CGS ever again. It took me this long since release to try it again and play without any bias and try to make an objective opinion about the sim. I know a great deal of people who have BOS and don't play it because they they still feel wronged no matter how good the game is. It's kind of sad, since as I stated before, this is a damn good sim at it's core, but it is what it is.

[KoN_]

I said many months back " becareful the internet now is a very powerfull tool . " it can make or break you . Some kid in his bedroom eating pizza can blog your game to its knees .  i did put some thing else but removed because of PC trap . lol

Edited July 14, 2015 by II./JG77_Con

[TheElf]

I always said at release it had all the basic elements of a great sim. It just needed to get content and have time to mature. Too many guys decided it wasn't a 10 yr old 1946 with updated graphics and the same amount of content. They all then decided to hit the review sites spamming them with negativity. Hopefully more guys will give this game a second chance and come back with an open mind. They will see how good it really is. Really, who needs a cliky pit? You know I really thought it was cool the first few times I started up a 109 or a spit in cliffs. Then it got tedious. I thought "I wish I had a hot key for this and could just watch the sequence happen." and in BOS, I can. However I am fearful the damage is done. We will never get the amount of new blood we need because of some doom and gloom reviewers. I hope I am wrong. The OP's post did give me a glimmer of that hope.

 

Welcome to my world.  I fly for a living and the LAST thing I want to do is spend hours reading a manual of how to start a fully clickable Sim Plane.  BoS gives me the right amount of immersion and engine management.

[[CPT]milopugdog]

I feel that many people who come to IL-2 from games like WT have a little struggle at the beginning of their career. When I first came to BoS, I knew what I was getting into, but I wasn't quite aware of the scale of it. Eventually, pressured by my WT squadron, I put Bos in a corner, slightly ignored until the Ju-52 was added. With this, I bought both premium planes, and unlocked all of the mods. This made me become more interested in the game, as I no longer had none of the mods for any plane excluding the LaGG and F-4. 

 

In short, the jump from War Thunder to IL-2 is quite large. I've had two people in COG who were interested in IL-2 lose interest because of it. Part of it may have been was the game wasn't quite as they were expecting it to be, as all they went by as a reference is what I said about the game, and another could be that the game doesn't baby you like WT. Several people I talk to want the game, but their computers are just to potato to play, as WT does too good of a job with allowing lower end computers to play... So much it damages game play quality... 

 

Anyway, I'm glad to have you back on board . 

[Mmaruda]

Well it is a big let down that the game was released without a manual or any kind of tutorial. RoF at least had some basic training missions to help you learn to fl the plane and understand how it works in general, not to mention there was detailed operating procedures for all planes in the manual. It's been like almost a year since release and the manual still isn't there. Sure there is a lot of tutorials online, but expecting players to search the web on their own for not always good quality information is a bit much, especially with a complex sim that BOS is. Not having any sort of guidance out of the box will put many people off.

[[CPT]milopugdog]

Well it is a big let down that the game was released without a manual or any kind of tutorial. RoF at least had some basic training missions to help you learn to fl the plane and understand how it works in general, not to mention there was detailed operating procedures for all planes in the manual. It's been like almost a year since release and the manual still isn't there. Sure there is a lot of tutorials online, but expecting players to search the web on their own for not always good quality information is a bit much, especially with a complex sim that BOS is. Not having any sort of guidance out of the box will put many people off.

Well, there is this http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/16752-il-2bos-user-manual-released-first-edition-english/. I haven't gone through and read all of it myself, but I saw sections on each aircraft when I skimmed through the pages. 

[Jantzen]

I have only the community to thank for detailed guides and explanation on every plane. Given the rather small playerbase, this is outstanding.

 

I am just bareley learning the ropes, throwing myself against the AI, but I get there and it is great. I was thinking of joining folks online, but maybe not quite yet, I still have lots to improve (aiming/landings).

Anyway, I am enjoying this game a lot!