Do you ever feel guilty?

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I apologize if this appears to be plugging a video that is posted twice in the forum already but every time I watch my last one I can't help feeling like a bit of a git.

 

I am a big proponent of leaving damaged aircraft because they are generally no (or less of a) threat and concentrating on higher or faster bandits but when I had the chance at an un-escorted IL2 I got this guy smoking and was about to turn for base but then decided to turn back to finish him off. Two more attacks later and he was finished with his engine pouring smoke, gunner dead and massive holes all over his fuselage.

 

My blood was up and I went for that 'last attack' and hit him right in the cockpit killing the pilot and now every time I watch it I can't help feeling a bit guilty lol

 

Is it just me?

 

Skip to 23:00 or 25:30 for the final blow....It looks very harsh

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vIHLcJu0ZU

[SCG_Neun]

Heartless......

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Heartless......

 

Thanks for that...now I'm depressed 

[Finkeren]

Waste of ammo...

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Waste of ammo...

 

We had 15 minutes to get back to base before the mission ended or we would be counted as killed.

 

This was a very quick flight and we knew it, maybe why we were so aggressive. IIRC I was turning back to base and then had this gut feeling that I would lose the kill so went back to finish him off :D

[SYN_Vorlander]

Thing of beauty 

[=CFC=Conky]

Beast

[LukeFF]

I just want to know how you fly that far back in the seat and with that wide of a viewing angle. 

[Original_Uwe]

Heartless......

Mercy is for the weak, and wasted on the bolshevik.

[Edited].  Higher emotions, like mercy, are foreign to them and thus it is inappropriate to display it to them.

 

Even in jest posts like this are unacceptable.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Bearcat

[Jupp]

~S~ Emil,

 

I make killing "smokers" or "venters" a priority, since the particle effects are a larger drain on resources than most anything else.

 

Also, side note, people who are not using push to talk on COMS, same thing there, constant xmission and reception of hot mics = -.

 

Still, I feel your pain, in that it's a huge thrill to get a crippled aircraft home and stick the landing. So you're right in feeling a little down.

 

It's the nature of the beast, war is hell, and ultimately no one "wins". There is no such thing as an "uninjured participant", of what we recreate.

 

Great flying by the way, it shows that you've been around the block in your airframe handling, it is almost painful to watch your sweeps.

 

Best to you and yours,

 

!S -Jupp-

Edited June 28, 2015 by Jupp

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I just want to know how you fly that far back in the seat and with that wide of a viewing angle. 

 

It's the only way :D

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Sometimes after making my ground pounding attack and on RTB, I almost wish someone would finish me off so I wouldn't have to fly all the way back to base.      (Unlike some I see on-line, I don't disconnect after hitting the target and then reconnect a minute later to respawn.)

[Freycinet]

Mercy is for the weak, and wasted on the bolshevik.

[Edited] Higher emotions, like mercy, are foreign to them and thus it is inappropriate to display it to them.

 

Maybe time for you to remember that it is a game.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Bearcat

[Rjel]

The best part of playing games to me, no matter what the genre, is doing things I couldn't possibly do in real life. I have no qualms about finishing off a prey in whatever brutal fashion presents itself. While some (not aimed at the OP) might not be able to separate fantasy from reality, I've never been able to be so fully immersed in a game that I'm able to lose myself in it. It's always just a game to me.  

[BlitzPig_EL]

I've been shot down too many times by aircraft that came back to attack after taking what I thought was critical damage.

 

Now they hit the ground in flames before I leave the scene.

[Soarfeat]

                                                        

                             

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKqGXeX9LhQ

[[DBS]Tx_Tip]

Nice Vid Emil. Definitely one tough hombre up there. 

I particularly enjoyed the fleeting glimpse of those smoking StG hulks before you two showed up and spoiled the party.

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

Nice vid.... like Jupp said the approach was almost painful to watch.

[Wulf]

Maybe time for you to remember that it is a game.

 

 

Ummmm ...  think he was just being 'dark' so, I think you can put down the phone.  No need to call the hate speech police just yet.

 

As for you Emil; I suggest you seek professional help.  It'll be someones's wife and kids next or worse.  Hmmmmm ... or maybe some young girl walking lost and alone in a forbidding looking wood just on dark.........hmmmm...

 

Yeah, well you know, that sort of thing    

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Nice Vid Emil. Definitely one tough hombre up there. 

I particularly enjoyed the fleeting glimpse of those smoking StG hulks before you two showed up and spoiled the party.

 

I was only when I reviewed the track that I even saw your IL2s blowing up all our tanks in the first attack. Those Yaks did a great job of keeping us occupied

[SR-F_Winger]

After passing a crippeled plane to wafe farewell and good landing, showing what people call "chivalry" and having this exact same dude then pull up to shoot me i let it go. The fight is over once either the kill counts or the plane is crashed.

So what you did is totally legit. And you shouldnt expect to be trated any diffrent by the enemy.

Edited June 29, 2015 by VSG1_Winger

[novicebutdeadly]

For me personally I break it down into 2 circumstance both of which are in the context of the enemy plane being undamaged/ in a fighting condition before we meet in combat/ they didn't just take down my friend/ bomb my base.

Against AI planes:

The only time that I do not go down and finish the job (if the plane is not in a "going down" state) is if I'm doing QMB and I know that another enemy will spawn/ I'm out of ammo, and so to waste altitude/ tactical position would be unwise and a waste of ammo.


Against human:

I tend to judge it on each individual situation, but I tend to be cautious (when I'm flying disciplined) to avoid losing situational awareness and being bounced and fighting for your life. It is better to live to fight another day, then to join your enemy in their grave.

In terms of chivalry it is kind of hard as some have posted, in il2 1946 by playing on the same server you could gauge what the enemy is going to do (by remembering their name) when their aircraft is munted. But as a general rule unless I am on team speak with them I do tend to go down to finish the job, never to "wave".

The reason is fairly simple as a fighter pilot your job is to rid the sky of the enemy, until your plane or their plane impacts the ground this is your job.

Of course you can be "nice" about it but that could be simply posting a chat message saying "bail and their name" as a warning that if they don't you will go down and finish them off so that someone doesn't come along and steal your points.

In saying that it is not just about the points, but rather what they represent. They represent YOUR victory over the enemy, whether it was an easy boom and zoom bounce, or a half an hour turn and burn fight.



If I see a plane in a barely flying condition and I was not responsible for it, unless they have just attacked my base/ shot down a friend, I leave them alone in the game (if it was real life I would shoot them down, as they would just come back tomorrow in a brand new plane and potentially kill my friends).



 

Edited June 29, 2015 by novicebutdeadly

[6./ZG26_Emil]

After passing a crippeled plane to wafe farewell and good landing, showing what people call "chivalry" and having this exact same dude then pull up to shoot me i let it go. The fight is over once either the kill counts or the plane is crashed.

So what you did is totally legit. And you shouldnt expect to be trated any diffrent by the enemy.

 

Yeh agreed I think that IL2 was already finished and wouldn't have made it back to base but if he'd crash landed instead of been PK'd I wouldn't have been bothered. As far as enemy fighters go there is a definite satisfaction from getting a PK and seeing the plane spinning out of control looks cool as hell. 

 

Within our squad we run a Dead is Dead type system where we record our sorties and kills etc so being PKed really hurts.

 

p.s I just find it funny when you watch yourself flying afterwards and see the mistakes and odd choices you sometimes make in the heat of the moment.

Edited June 29, 2015 by JG5_Emil

[KoN_]

Dont feel guilty Emil , its either You or Him .

Who knows he might of belly landed , escaped and fought another day .later  Kills some of you fellow pilots , then you would feel guilty for not finishing him off .

[unreasonable]

Best to think of it as a purely tactical cost/benefit question: does the additional probability of achieving your goal (destroy the enemy aircraft and its aircrew) outweigh the risk to your own ship and self of following a damaged enemy down.

 

If you do not have top cover and/or you are over enemy lines I would think the answer is usually no.

 

Just out of prudence, not any moral qualms. Big boy's rules.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Best to think of it as a purely tactical cost/benefit question: does the additional probability of achieving your goal (destroy the enemy aircraft and its aircrew) outweigh the risk to your own ship and self of following a damaged enemy down.

 

If you do not have top cover and/or you are over enemy lines I would think the answer is usually no.

 

Just out of prudence, not any moral qualms. Big boy's rules.

 

Yeh that's why I rarely find myself in these situations we are quite strict about chasing stuff or going low and putting our virtual lives at risk and on a DF server I would almost never do it. On this mission we had a good idea we would be safe and checked the area first and were sure the two bombers were alone but you raise the more important point that a smoking aircraft or tracer can attract people very quickly and when they're on comms, which they were, even more risky.

 

People who know us will probably find it amusing we were so low :D

[Y-29.Silky]

I was just going to post a video of something like this after work today. Over the weekend I was flying my He-111, at 2500 meters, both of my engines were dead and smoking, the kill was already credited towards the enemy player, I put my nav lights on for mercy, yet two La-5's insisted on shooting at me until I was falling down in flames. The only word I can think of is.. 


... Asshole. 


For those who do it, I only hope karma hits them in a face when they encounter an enemy aircraft while RTB, yet are out of ammo.

 

 

.. I call it the War Thunder Syndrome.

 

 

Once I see that I got credit for the kill, I leave the enemy alone and move onto the next. There's no real benefit to attack an aircraft that's combat ineffective, absolutely none.

Edited June 29, 2015 by [Y-29]Silky

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

Silky' timestamp='1435597255' post='269183'] both of my engines were dead and smoking, the kill was already credited towards the enemy player

 

I had the same thing the other day, I took some hits, overcooked my engine and killed it. Smoke was belching out the kill had been credited and I was gliding down canopy open. That wasn't enough, I was followed all the way down taking hit after hit from some "charming" individual who wasn't happy with a just kill credit.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I had the same thing the other day, I took some hits, overcooked my engine and killed it. Smoke was belching out the kill had been credited and I was gliding down canopy open. That wasn't enough, I was followed all the way down taking hit after hit from some "charming" individual who wasn't happy with a just kill credit.

 

and that's why I hate DF servers....kill stealers

 

but I digress :D

[Original_Uwe]

Maybe time for you to remember that it is a game.

Im guessing you didn't take my post in jest as it was intended.

Cant add smilies from mobile.

Edited June 29, 2015 by forsale

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Im guessing you didn't take my post in jest as it was intended.

 

Everyone else saw it for what it was meant to be though

 

Just fun

[Y-29.Silky]

Dont feel guilty Emil , its either You or Him .

Who knows he might of belly landed , escaped and fought another day .later  Kills some of you fellow pilots , then you would feel guilty for not finishing him off .

Not really in the situation of a 109 vs IL-2, and the fact that'll he'll just respawn anyways as it's a video game. If he belly landed, Emil would have got the kill, even if the IL-2 made it back to base and crash landed, Emil still would have received credit.

 

Story Time (again) - Same game as my previous He-111 incident this time in 109's, my wingman jumped a Yak at 7000m and got his oil tank pretty good. I told my wingman to leave him be, even though the Yak was still trying to catch up to us, I knew he wasn't going to make it home. Moments later, 2 more Yaks show up at 7000m. We shot them down, my wingman was shot down but 2-3 minutes later, he got credit for the initial Yak he jumped (Told ya so). But if we made those oh so easy, 'suck my d you commie bastard' finishers on the initial Yak to make him go down in flames.. we would have been severely screwed by the other 2 Yaks.

 

--------------------

 

Side Note: I see so many players complain about German UFO's and will climb to +5000m in their Russian fighters leaving these poor, unescorted IL-2's on the deck :D

Edited June 29, 2015 by [Y-29]Silky

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Not really in the situation of a 109 vs IL-2, and the fact that'll he'll just respawn anyways as it's a video game. If he belly landed, Emil would have got the kill, even if the IL-2 made it back to base and crash landed, Emil still would have received credit.

 

 

I agree but this was a coop so they wouldn't respawn which does mean you are put in a situation where you can have to be merciless at times. I have no issues with all my attacks but the last one made me a little sad since it was a PK, if he'd ditched in the snow I would have been happy as Larry.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I will always make sure a bomber pilot bails or crashes if they are near a target because bombs don't care if the engines are running

[unreasonable]

when i learnt of the emotional vampirism that this game online implies i often dont shoot my foe anymore but form on his 6

 

when you feel good shooting other is becqause the other feels bad being shot down

 

emotional energy is not created nor destroyed just transformed and transferred

 

Not necessarily raaaid, feeling good and feeling bad are not opposite signs of a quantity, they are different manifestations of excitement.

 

Ask any sado-masochistic couple: they are both creating emotional energy out of leather and chains.

 

Now if you were actually fighting to the death in RL it would be a zero sum game.