Conversion to DX12 - whya not crowdfund it?

[SR-F_Winger]

I was asking myself why dont 777/1C simply start a crowdfundingcampaign to finance a proper conversion to DX12.

This would not only make the sim far more performant, it would also open the possibility to add VR functionality and god knows what benefits else.

I for my part would definately put out 50 bucks to crowdfund such an undertaking, maybe even more. This could be combined with the addition of a new scenario with a ceratin set of planes. I mean just look at Star citizen. They are getting RICH with their funding.
I dont know how much exactly would be needed to finance such a task but maybe we can show the devs that there is actually HUGE interest in having the sim more futureproove.

So many other comanys do crowdfund their undertakings. I dont see why WWII simdevelopment shouldnt try and maybe hugely benefit from crowdfunding.

After all even if it fails noone is hurt. Fundinggoal not reached, noone pays.

Edited June 23, 2015 by VSG1_Winger

[Juri_JS]

My technical knowledge is very limited, so my question is, what performance advantages would a conversion to DX12 offer in BoS.

Wouldn't a change from 32bit to 64bit be more important and allow a much larger performance increase?

[JG4_Sputnik]

And while we're at it, lets also fund clickpits and a more up to date game engine 

[Finkeren]

My technical knowledge is very limited, so my question is, what performance advantages would a conversion to DX12 offer in BoS.

 

Wouldn't a change from 32bit to 64bit be more important and allow a much larger performance increase?

 

Yeah, I wonder that too.

[SR-F_Winger]

My technical knowledge is very limited, so my question is, what performance advantages would a conversion to DX12 offer in BoS.

 

Wouldn't a change from 32bit to 64bit be more important and allow a much larger performance increase?

Mine is limited as well. But AFAIK the conversion to DX12 removes CPU overhead, making the calculations FAR more efficient. And also AFAIK a sim like this is VERY CPU intense. So increasing CPU efficiency would benefit the game.

From all i read i get the impression that the higher the DX version the higher the performance. Maybe someone with less limited knowledge could chime in?

There must be a reason other than looks that DCS for example switches to a higher DX version. And in their last newsletter they said that the conversion permanently opens up now oportunities to increase performance. Also DX12 is included in Windows 10 and Windows 10 brings native support for virtual reality. So the one and only move would be to make it right once and for all.

Why work with old technology when new one is already available?

And while we're at it, lets also fund clickpits and a more up to date game engine 

Updating to DX12 would make the engine "up to date".

Clickpits are not in question right here. But i dont see why featureadditions like that should not be part of another crowdfundingattempt.

[IRRE_Belmont]

BOS + BOM (Normal) = 100 Dollards

BOS + BOM (Premium)= 160 Dollards

 

 

Sorry, but for the curent content, i'd say we pay more than enough for the game,

 

Plus DX12 isn't gonna do miracles

[Juri_JS]

Mine is limited as well. But AFAIK the conversion to DX12 removes CPU overhead, making the calculations FAR more efficient. And also AFAIK a sim like this is VERY CPU intense. So increasing CPU efficiency would benefit the game.

From all i read i get the impression that the higher the DX version the higher the performance. Maybe someone with less limited knowledge could chime in?

There must be a reason other than looks that DCS for example switches to a higher DX version. And in their last newsletter they said that the conversion permanently opens up now oportunities to increase performance. Also DX12 is included in Windows 10 and Windows 10 brings native support for virtual reality. So the one and only move would be to make it right once and for all.

Why work with old technology when new one is already available?

Updating to DX12 would make the engine "up to date".

Clickpits are not in question right here. But i dont see why featureadditions like that should not be part of another crowdfundingattempt.

But isn't DCS a 64 bit application? Would it really make sense to use DX12 in a 32bit application like BoS?

[Feathered_IV]

There are a number of things in BoS I'd crowd fund if I had the chance.

[SR-F_Winger]

But isn't DCS a 64 bit application? Would it really make sense to use DX12 in a 32bit application like BoS?

Conversion to DX12 doesnt exclude a conversion to 64 bit - right?

[Juri_JS]

Conversion to DX12 doesnt exclude a conversion to 64 bit - right?

My guess is that a change to 64bit would be a requirement for a DX12 conversion. It would be interesting to know how complicated such a change to 64 bit would be for an application like BoS.

[Dakpilot]

Some useful info here

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/15485-operations-server-mission-building-instructions/?p=252869

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[nirvi]

I'm no expert, but wouldn't a "conversion" of the engine from DX9 to DX12 mean 2 or more years of work? What would be a realistic timeframe for such a big change?

[JG13_opcode]

My technical knowledge is very limited, so my question is, what performance advantages would a conversion to DX12 offer in BoS.

 

Wouldn't a change from 32bit to 64bit be more important and allow a much larger performance increase?

DX12 has a slew of fancy rendering and geometry generation techniques that allow a larger degree of parallelism, and also lets the game engine do more work on the GPU.  Since the GPU is not a general-purpose processor like your CPU, it is more efficient and significantly faster at a certain set of tasks.

 

The jump from 32-bit to 64-bit doesn't really make things much faster.

As has been said elsewhere, though, this game is heavily CPU-bound so it's not likely that DX12 would bring in a huge jump in performance unless you could do some of the physics calcs on the GPU.

[taffy2jeffmorgan]

There are a number of things in BoS I'd crowd fund if I had the chance.

I certainly would agree to that.

[BraveSirRobin]

The poll is broken.  I tried to vote no but it's still forcing me to vote on the 2nd question.

[SharpeXB]

Somebody go look at the Steam hardware survey to see how many people have DX12 capable systems. That might answer a lot of your questions.

[Albino]

Thanks for that link Dakpilot

 

Caryatid's comments are informative. The only thing he didn't address which might be relevant is whether the physics simulations could be accelerated by using DirectCompute (not Nvidia's PhysX). My understanding is that DX 11 was the first generation of the API to allow GPGPU compute using DirectCompute. If BOS used this method perhaps the aircraft count could be increased?

 

If Cary is right about the network being the bottleneck then this of course would only help in SinglePlayer.

 

Regards

Albino 

[Skoop]

I would love to see both 64bit and directx12, but why crowd fund ?  They should add this with future installments to the game as a selling point to get the latest maps, planes, and theater.  Feature improvement is a great dlc selling point, far more than new maps and planes.  You have to do both together.  So for example, IL2 Battle of Kursk, we get new planes, new maps, and 64bit direct x12 upgrade.  That'll influence people to buy an 80.00 EA dlc.  

[Capt_Stubing]

Changing from 32 to 64 bit is not as big of a deal as going to DX12.  I haven't looked at what the game uses in terms of memory but having access to more memory does help with performance over all.  I don't know what this engine is capable of in terms of objects AI and map size.  I don't think we are seeing that limit pushed as of yet.  I don't really care about the performance you get with DX12 what I do care about is support for Oculus Rift.

[Jade_Monkey]

Fix the poll.

 

If you answer No on the first it still forces you to answer #2.

 

Also #2 does not cover less than $10, so you are not covering all the options.

 

Edit: Also, while you are at it, don't include 20 and 30 in more than one option.

 

change to 10-19, 20-29... etc

Edited June 24, 2015 by CBZ323

[szuszu]

why dont make it like in DCS  where modules can be upgraded with existings keys ?

[FuriousMeow]

Money isn't the issue. Resources are. Someone with knowledge of the current engine would have to take it to DX12, and it's not an overnight process. Look how long it's taking DCS to upgrade their engine.

 

Throwing money at it will not get a change to a DX12 engine, it will require a) everyone to have DX12 cards, b) a real reason to go to DX12, and c) a financial need to go DX12.

 

In order to go to DX12, with a team this small, it will have stoppage of development on the current engine until the new one is released. So 3 years of no further graphical development? As has been said many times, the devs haven't hit the limit with what they can do with the current engine. Additionally, while DX12 will be compatible with the previous generation of nVidia cards (Kepler) - the major performance advantages to it won't be evident without the card's architecture being designed for it which only those with 960/970/980 cards have. If you have performance problems with the current DX using an older card, or a mid-range card, DX12 will not be your saving.

Edited June 26, 2015 by FuriousMeow

[L3Pl4K]

@ FuriousMeow

 

 

it will require a) everyone to have DX12 cards

AMD Cards with CGN(HD 7xxx and higher) architecture support DX12, with Nvidia you need min. Fermi(GTX 400)

 

 

b) a real reason to go to DX12,

more cpu time for rendering..more fps..smooth gameplay without highend cpu

 

 

c) a financial need to go DX12

kickstarter

Edited June 27, 2015 by Leplak

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

Somebody go look at the Steam hardware survey to see how many people have DX12 capable systems. That might answer a lot of your questions.

Can't really say that's fair, considering Windows 10 is not released yet. And DX12 is only supported on W10.