3 BoS Aircraft that could work in BoM too (in earlier variants o/c)

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

All these Aircraft can be adapted to BoM with only a small number of changes in Visual Flight Model. The Basis for all these ahs been laid out already in BoS.

 

LaGG-3 series 1-8

This is the early 5 or 4 gun series.

The main differences are:

1. VK105P/PA instad of PF. Different supercharger Setups with 1020hp T/O, 1100hp at 2000m and 1050 at 4000m. (PF is 1210 at T/O and 1260 at 700m)

Engines are generally tuned for medium altitude combat, unlike later machines.

2. Gun arrangement. -In Blisters on Cowling 2x7.62 Shkas Machineguns with 325 rounds each (650 rounds total)

                                  -In Cowling 1 or 2 12.7 UBS. Starboard gun optional. 220 rounds each

                                  -Through Propeller Hub: Either 12.7 (220) UBK or ShvaK (120)

3. Different profiles of Water Cooler and Oil Cooler. Differ between 1-8 series.

4. Weight: All these are heavier than series 29. Between 3350 and 3280 depending on wether tailwheel is retractable and gun arrangenment.

5. Tailwheel: Early models were retractable. (498kph at SL, 575kph at altitude) but heavier with worse turn.

                     Non Retractable Tailwheel 4-8 series: (475 kph at SL and 550 at altitude)

6. Rudder: Different or no balancing at all. Uncut fin. Balancing if available is external.

 

Rates of climb vary between 750m and 600m/minute depending on engine. apparently early models 1-3 outclimbed the later 4-8 series mainly due to installement of the 20 or 23mm cannon and other changes.

 

Should be a very good counterpart to Bf109E

 

 

 

Yak-1

Similar to later model except for engine

It's a VK-105P, It has inferior Top Speed at SL (470, 570 at altitude) but better rate of climb. 5.7 min to 5000m against 6 minutes of later model. Engine is tuned for medium altitudes.

 

Ju-87D-1

Same as D-3, just less armor.

B-models also served in Operation Barbarossa. It was in fact one of the most important Aircraft of this Operation

B- models differ mainly in lower Bombload (500kg), less powerful JuMo 211D of 1200hp, weaker defensive armament of 1x MG17, Different Canopy Design.

 

 

Sources and Pictures

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/lagg3drawings/lagg3drawings.html

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Modeling/LaGG/LaGG-3/Vector/Preview/index.php

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Modeling/LaGG/LaGG-3/Vector/Preview/vector_lagg_parts02.jpg

http://wio.ru/tacftr/lag.htm

http://ram-home.com/ram-old/eng_vk-105.html

http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rkka.es%2Faviones%2Faviones_index.htm

http://wio.ru/tacftr/yak.htm

http://www.warbirdsforum.com/topic/5967-lagg-3-performance/

 

 

[jeanba]

The Yak-1 is much inferior to the Yak-1PF, same order of magnitude of differences as between a Spît I and a Spit V for instance

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

The Yak-1 is much inferior to the Yak-1PF, same order of magnitude of differences as between a Spît I and a Spit V for instance

More like F Mk.IX and LF Mk.IX. The later Yaks simply had different Supercharger gearing for lower altitudes.

[Juri_JS]

The Battle of Moscow without the Yak, LaGG and Stuka would be strange indeed, but I doubt the developers will add additional flyable aircraft for free.

[jeanba]

More like F Mk.IX and LF Mk.IX. The later Yaks simply had different Supercharger gearing for lower altitudes.

"simply" but for the pilots, it changed a lot of things

[JG13_opcode]

More like F Mk.IX and LF Mk.IX. The later Yaks simply had different Supercharger gearing for lower altitudes.

They changed the engines and fuselage details also, but it's complicated by the fact that the VVS was a little bit lax with its designations.

 

While the Luftwaffe might employ designations like Bf-109G-6 75R14, the VVS tended to just say "Yak-1 with aerodynamic improvements", etc.  They not only changed the engine but also the armament (ShKAS -> Berezin), the canopy, the construction materials, etc.

 

IIRC what we rigidly call the Yak-1b was a designation applied in retrospect to the Yak-1 with the aerodynamic improvements, the bubble canopy, and 1xShVAK + 1xUBS 12.7mm.  But some of these aircraft hit the skies with the M-105PA, not the PF.  Bear in mind it was an incredibly transitional time for Soviet industry what with the relocation from the Donets basin and beyond into the Urals and Siberia.

[Danziger]

Yeah I could see them making add on aircraft packs available.

[LukeFF]

 

 

Ju-87D-1 Same as D-3, just less armor. B-models also served in Operation Barbarossa. It was in fact one of the most important Aircraft of this Operation B- models differ mainly in lower Bombload (500kg), less powerful JuMo 211D of 1200hp, weaker defensive armament of 1x MG17, Different Canopy Design.

 

The D-series Ju 87 did not enter service until 1942. 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

The D-series Ju 87 did not enter service until 1942. 

Yeah, wasn't quite sure wether to have the D, R or B model.

 

Edit: according to the wiki production of the D-1 was from mid 1941 to mid 1942.

Edited June 19, 2015 by myfabi94

[ShamrockOneFive]

I'd love it if these types showed up. Not sure what the devs are going to do about these if anything.

[csThor]

Ju 87 R is essentially a Berta with additional fuel lines in the wings to allow for drop tanks to be carried there. R in this case meant "Reichweite" (range). But as Luke said the correct Ju 87 for BoM would be the Ju 87 B-2 (or R-2 - either would be correct).

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Ju 87 R is essentially a Berta with additional fuel lines in the wings to allow for drop tanks to be carried there. R in this case meant "Reichweite" (range). But as Luke said the correct Ju 87 for BoM would be the Ju 87 B-2 (or R-2 - either would be correct).

The B-series went out of Production in late 1940, BoM is the fall and winter 1941-1942. The R-2 was in production until late 1941, and is therefore the more appropiate of the two.

[Sim]

A Ju 87 B-series would be sweet addition.. It was still used even during the battle of Stalingrad (II./StG 1 for example).

Edited June 19, 2015 by Sim

[Finkeren]

Once BoM is released the devs should really consider making a small 'package' including an early series Yak-1 and LaGG-3, Ju 87 R-2 and perhaps a He 111 H-2.

 

This could be sold at the price you'd normally pay for the two Premium planes, to reflect the lower production costs.

[Y-29.Silky]

I-153 would be a more relevant aircraft for both Battle of Moscow and Battle of Stalingrad.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I-153 would be a more relevant aircraft for both Battle of Moscow and Battle of Stalingrad.

Do you have any worthwhile data for it? I would love it too. Should climb better than 109s up to 1000m.

http://wio.ru/tacftr/polikarp.htm

This seems conflicting since the BS armed one with inferior engine seems to be better?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Waht kind of starter does it use?

[Finkeren]

 

I-153 would be a more relevant aircraft for both Battle of Moscow and Battle of Stalingrad.

Which air regiments flew I-153 during the Stalingrad campaign? I thought the remaining Chaikas were largely deployed in the Baltic area in late 1942.

[andyw248]

They changed the engines and fuselage details also, but it's complicated by the fact that the VVS was a little bit lax with its designations.

 

While the Luftwaffe might employ designations like Bf-109G-6 75R14, the VVS tended to just say "Yak-1 with aerodynamic improvements", etc.  They not only changed the engine but also the armament (ShKAS -> Berezin), the canopy, the construction materials, etc.

 

IIRC what we rigidly call the Yak-1b was a designation applied in retrospect to the Yak-1 with the aerodynamic improvements, the bubble canopy, and 1xShVAK + 1xUBS 12.7mm.  But some of these aircraft hit the skies with the M-105PA, not the PF.  Bear in mind it was an incredibly transitional time for Soviet industry what with the relocation from the Donets basin and beyond into the Urals and Siberia.

 

Great post! Something everybody should keep in mind when talking about specs.

[Sim]

Which air regiments flew I-153 during the Stalingrad campaign? I thought the remaining Chaikas were largely deployed in the Baltic area in late 1942.

 

Oh, I love those kind of questions!

 

Chaikas were operated mostly by some 102 IAD/PVO air defense units in the early months of the battle (July/August):

 

926 IAP - arrived mid-July with full inventory of Chaikas. Disbanded by the end of August and left for reformation.

651 IAP - had 10+ I-15bis and I-153 in July/August. Left Stalingrad combat zone early September for reformation.

652 IAP - had a squadron of I-15bis.

572 IAP and 629 IAP - took over some remaining Chaikas from other 102 IAD/PVO units that left for reformation and had them in inventory during winter (probably not serviceable/operational).

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Which air regiments flew I-153 during the Stalingrad campaign? I thought the remaining Chaikas were largely deployed in the Baltic area in late 1942.

This Thread is relevant for BoM mainly.

[Finkeren]

This Thread is relevant for BoM mainly.

I understand that. I asked merely because Silky said that the Chaika would fit the Stalingrad scenario.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I really could not care less for types that are so similar. Im a little frustrated we are getting a F-2 when we have the F-4??? I would much rather have one totally new AC such as an P39 instead of 5 others with simular type

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I really could not care less for types that are so similar. Im a little frustrated we are getting a F-2 when we have the F-4??? I would much rather have one totally new AC such as an P39 instead of 5 others with simular type

The Point really is that these could carry over with only a couple of changes, requiering only very little work to import into BoM. The P-39 would be completely new Modelling wise.

And jsut try to imagine BoM without a Stuka!

[Finkeren]

 

I really could not care less for types that are so similar. Im a little frustrated we are getting a F-2 when we have the F-4??? I would much rather have one totally new AC such as an P39 instead of 5 others with simular type

In terms of performance and armament options the F-2 is more different from the F-4 than the F-4 is from the G-2.

 

Just saying.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Yeah true but I will have a stuka :-)

Edited June 26, 2015 by [TBC]AeroACE

[Finkeren]

The F-2 was the LW main fighter during BoM, it would've been strange to skip it.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Although I know this is more work than just changing a few things up... Yak-7! :D

 

Fairly major type to fight during BoM and BoS timeframes with upgraded engines available during the summer and fall of the Stalingrad campaign.

[Finkeren]

It was always something of a surprise to me, that the devs went with the Yak-1 over the Yak-7 for BoS. Propably wanted a plane that would be more competible in a dogfight.

[ShamrockOneFive]

It was always something of a surprise to me, that the devs went with the Yak-1 over the Yak-7 for BoS. Propably wanted a plane that would be more competible in a dogfight.

 

I've thought about it and yeah.. between the two the Yak-7 may have been more relevant but then again the Yak-1 Series 69 is a hotter Yak and it looks a little less awkward than the Yak-7 - which has that kind of workhorse/stopgap design feel to it. I'm kind of hoping they put one into the series sometime.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

yak 9 please!!!

[Danziger]

Yes Yak-9 would be nice

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

But then Bf109G-6 and Fw190A-5 too, and Me-410A

[ShamrockOneFive]

Ok now we're off topic. The Yak-7 is a stretch but let's not get carried away. Talking about aircraft we already have that we can get earlier versions of.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Ignore the 109, it was a faulty model, but the LaGG-3 isn't that bad in 1941.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2015 by -FDFHQ-Klaus_Mann

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Lagg-3

Old Cockpit

 

 

Younger Versions

 

 

Photo of early Cockpit:

[Finkeren]

Ignore the 109, it was a faulty model, but the LaGG-3 isn't that bad in 1941.

 

 

That performance chart has been brought up before, and it's clearly faulty. The Bf 109 E is about 30km/h too slow across the board, the MiG-3 is shown to be a good deal too fast at low altitude and the early LaGG lying so close to Yak-1 performance doesn't ring true either. Edited June 28, 2015 by Finkeren

[Matt]

This one should be a bit closer to the truth. For the Russian planes at least.

[Freycinet]

Here is another indispensable plane for the stable: http://imgur.com/a/kRUA8

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Wow them crazy Ekranoplanes :-)