Willy__ Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I can see that this might not work so well for Fw190 vs Yak, where the performance differences are more marked, but maybe for the 109 vs Yak scenario? What would be interesting would be a MP set up that had the same planes on each side - it would be fun to see if people believed that the two side's really had different FMs. Its difficult, but doable.
SYN_Vorlander Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Was the 109 and the Yak during the battle of stalingrad on equal terms with each other? Both planes have positive and negative FM and equals each one out on its own terms but was that the case? Am I wrong to think its not more historical but a balanced FM for both sides? When BOS was released we at SYN decided to fly the Russian side becuase everyone will be flying german side because the german planes are superior and nobody will fly russian. Its not the case anymore because the FM are balanced out. Edited June 18, 2015 by SYN_Vorlander
SYN_Mike77 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Historical comparisons are going to be tough to apply to the game because you run into the problem of pilot quality. The Luftwaffe 1942/early 43 had much more experience and better command and control than did the VVS at that time of the war. Sure there were ace soviet pilots but a lot of chum in the water quality as well. The same problem in reverse could be found at the end of the war. By then the VVS was hitting its stride and was a well trained, experienced fighting force while the Luftwaffe was sending up babies. Looking at the stats of the planes it should be an even battle with an edge to the 109. Are there any stats available as to the kill rates of these two planes on line, in game? There is for RoF because we saw them with the Alby D5 v Camel post patch debate. It would be very interesting to see them for Yak v 109.
=EXPEND=Dendro Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) I've got hundreds of online hours and I outclimb countless yaks and laggs.... this guy however seemed to stay with me ...... lordy knows how but he did..... he did not outclimb me but he sure as heck kept the pressure up till I ran out of ideas. I wish I could remember his name but Vessel told me after that he was an ace pilot. If I remember correctly he caught me where he had more E. He was in range and I had to jink a lot to make him miss. After a while I snuck out of range but he persisted and sat on my ass like sh*t on a wool blanket. Once the climb began he was always within 800m and I never really shook him till Vessel arrived at about 4000m. He then extended and ran with a shallow dive and the G2 could not even catch him. Do you fly online much, Brave Sir Robin? Edited June 18, 2015 by DendroAspis
BraveSirRobin Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I've got hundreds of online hours and I outclimb countless yaks and laggs.... this guy however seemed to stay with me ...... lordy knows how but he did..... he did not outclimb me but he sure as heck kept the pressure up till I ran out of ideas. I wish I could remember his name but Vessel told me after that he was an ace pilot. Do you fly online much, Brave? Not lately in BOS, but I was online a lot until MP numbers crashed.
=EXPEND=Dendro Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 When early access was on the VVS planes were always outnumbered.... now they definitely give a good show. No idea if they balanced the FMs or if the pilots just learned to use their strengths.
BraveSirRobin Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 As near as I can tell from playing quick missions, the 109 is still very much superior to the VVS aircraft.
SYN_Vorlander Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) As near as I can tell from playing quick missions, the 109 is still very much superior to the VVS aircraft. No no. Quick missions are not the samething as MP my ROF vriend and you know that. Edited June 18, 2015 by SYN_Vorlander
BraveSirRobin Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) No no. Quick missions are not the samething as MP my ROF vriend and you know that. I never said it was. But I can still kill Yaks easily in the 109, while it's more difficult to kill 109s in the Yak. Ipso fatso, the 109 is still superior. ps. yes, I know it's not fatso Edited June 18, 2015 by BraveSirRobin
=EXPEND=Dendro Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I think you should come online.... its very different to quick mission... besides there are a lot more guys and it's fun ))
Dr_Molenbeek Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Are there really folks who think in their minds that Yak-1 is superior to 109s in BoS..? Stop joking guys, 109s are ZE pampers planes in BoS.
=EXPEND=Dendro Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Low level.... same E ... ill says yes, the yak is superior.
JG13_opcode Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 Are there really folks who think in their minds that Yak-1 is superior to 109s in BoS..? Stop joking guys, 109s are ZE pampers planes in BoS. The Yak is so sexy though....
BraveSirRobin Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I think you should come online.... its very different to quick mission... besides there are a lot more guys and it's fun )) I'm well aware that mp is very different. However, during US hours mp is currently empty. But it's still possible to determine which aircraft is better in quick missions. If I can kill Yaks easily, but have more trouble killing 109s, then the 109 is probably still better. 1
1CGS LukeFF Posted June 18, 2015 1CGS Posted June 18, 2015 Am I wrong to think its not more historical but a balanced FM for both sides? Yes Its not the case anymore because the FM are balanced out. In case you might have forgotten one of this forum's rules: Claiming that FM is incorrect without the required proof and starting a flame thread based on such claim is prohibited.
mb339pan Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 When BOS was released we at SYN decided to fly the Russian side becuase everyone will be flying german side because the german planes are superior and nobody will fly russian. Its not the case anymore because the FM are balanced out. a specific question Mr. Vorlander: during development have changed FM Of Russians Planes? If yes/no for the better/worse ? S!
SYN_Vorlander Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) a specific question Mr. Vorlander: during development have changed FM Of Russians Planes? If yes/no for the better/worse ? S! I think for the better of the Russian side. Its only my opinion. Edited June 18, 2015 by SYN_Vorlander
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 They have changed. There were several adjustments being made to the Yak and german fighters, most particular one the introduction of contorll forces ("inertia") to avoid planes to move to rapidly under rapid inputs. That accounted for all existing planes but the Lagg-3 (which has even been explicticly mentioned in patchntes) and the La-5 (not mentioned at all though it unsuprisingly behaves the same as the Lagg-3). That's why the Lagg-3 and La-5 can keep up with 190s in roll manouvres without issues since they don't have the "inertia" the 190 has but roll at max speed instantaneously. There also were several flap changes for the Yak, though not all were explained in detail. The only official performance fix I know of has been applied to the Fw-190. There has not been a "complete overhaul" for the FMs asa promised threwout Alpha, than Beta at all, which is why some planes like the Ju87 still have rudimentary issues with their FMs (which have been reported for long time now). With the latest sequal of events since Oktober 2014 I would not be suprised if some "underground" FM changes were made. I doubt there's intentionally applied bias or balance but moer that there no interest and money from dev side to fix it, which is sad. I'm curious how the "If it doesnt work at the first try never mind and move on" strategy will work out after BoM release.
SR-F_Winger Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I'm curious how the "If it doesnt work at the first try never mind and move on" strategy will work out after BoM release. It doesnt. At least all people i know stopped investing until there are the needed fixes. 1
BraveSirRobin Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 It doesnt. At least all people i know stopped investing until there are the needed fixes. LOL You have a BOM tag right under your name. 1
Wulf Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Its difficult, but doable. Was that you in combat Istru? Excellent energy management and shooting bro. That Yak 'swinehund' certainly got a nasty shock .. Heh heh heh.... See you up there ...... 1
SR-F_Winger Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) LOL You have a BOM tag right under your name. and like 1 flighthour in the last 3 months. EDIT: I AM a supporter of the genre and didnt loose interest. Thats why i bought ROF planes even months after i stopped flying it. And i certainly still have hope for BOS/BOM. If i tell you that noone of my friends does fly anymore why should i lie? Edited June 18, 2015 by VSG1_Winger
BraveSirRobin Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 If i tell you that noone of my friends does fly anymore why should i lie? You didn't say "not flying", you said "not investing", which means not spending money. In any case, did you have the same "not flying until FMs are perfect" policy with the original IL2?
Willy__ Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Was that you in combat Istru? Excellent energy management and shooting bro. That Yak 'swinehund' certainly got a nasty shock .. Heh heh heh.... See you up there ...... Thanks, it was me It was a really, really long sortie, took off with full tank, everytime I reached 4k some Yak and/or La bounced me, everytime they were diving on me so I decided to climb a little bit more, to 6k and thats when I found those 3 Yaks. Too bad I was bingo on fuel by the end, otherwise I could take on the other two I guess. @topic: The Yak sure has some dubious in-game caracteristcs, but its not an uber plane, neither is the 109 or 190 or any plane. Just fly to your strenghts while forcing them doing what you want, make them waste energy when they dont need to and most important keep the situation awareness at all times. While FM changes dont come, why dont you people just enjoy the game by what it is ? Its perfectly possible to shoot down any plane flying any other plane, heck, last time in mp I shot down a Yak with the twin 37mm of the stuka! That was fun, LOL. Edited June 18, 2015 by istruba 3
303_Kwiatek Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 While FM changes dont come, why dont you people just enjoy the game by what it is ? Its perfectly possible to shoot down any plane flying any other plane, heck, last time in mp I shot down a Yak with the twin 37mm of the stuka! That was fun, LOL. Maby beacuse some want historical realism not only fun Isturba?
=FI=Rambo Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 I prefer to fly the lagg 3. The plane just does everything I want it to. I also love the 23mm on it for taking advantage of over shoots
=EXPEND=Dendro Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Excellent video, iStruba and even better dogfighting tactics. Makes me want to fly the 190 seven more now. Thanks for the inspiration.
SR-F_Winger Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 You didn't say "not flying", you said "not investing", which means not spending money. In any case, did you have the same "not flying until FMs are perfect" policy with the original IL2? counting peas? And i meant it. look up vsg1 members. NOONE bought BOM but me. Didnt play the original. Started with ROF in flightsimming.
LLv44_Mprhead Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 They have changed. There were several adjustments being made to the Yak and german fighters, most particular one the introduction of contorll forces ("inertia") to avoid planes to move to rapidly under rapid inputs. That accounted for all existing planes but the Lagg-3 (which has even been explicticly mentioned in patchntes) and the La-5 (not mentioned at all though it unsuprisingly behaves the same as the Lagg-3). That's why the Lagg-3 and La-5 can keep up with 190s in roll manouvres without issues since they don't have the "inertia" the 190 has but roll at max speed instantaneously. There also were several flap changes for the Yak, though not all were explained in detail. The only official performance fix I know of has been applied to the Fw-190. There has not been a "complete overhaul" for the FMs asa promised threwout Alpha, than Beta at all, which is why some planes like the Ju87 still have rudimentary issues with their FMs (which have been reported for long time now). With the latest sequal of events since Oktober 2014 I would not be suprised if some "underground" FM changes were made. I doubt there's intentionally applied bias or balance but moer that there no interest and money from dev side to fix it, which is sad. I'm curious how the "If it doesnt work at the first try never mind and move on" strategy will work out after BoM release. I would think that in russian part of market, there is much larger share of those who thinks that everything is just fine now, so there might be some pressure towards devs not to make changes. This is purely speculative from my part of course.
SYN_Vorlander Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 I prefer to fly the lagg 3. The plane just does everything I want it to. I also love the 23mm on it for taking advantage of over shoots He is one of the best in Lagg 3. Shooting down 109 like flies.
BraveSirRobin Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 counting peas? And i meant it. look up vsg1 members. NOONE bought BOM but me. Didnt play the original. Started with ROF in flightsimming. Started with RoF? LOL The complaining about BoS FM issues is nothing compared to RoF. If you really need perfect flight models you need to go buy yourself some restored warbirds. And even those probably won't fly exactly like the originals.
SR-F_Winger Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Started with RoF? LOL The complaining about BoS FM issues is nothing compared to RoF. If you really need perfect flight models you need to go buy yourself some restored warbirds. And even those probably won't fly exactly like the originals. Whats there to lol about? Dude i think i am done with the kinds of you:) Have a nice day.
BraveSirRobin Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 By the way, I really don't care if your squad didn't buy BoM. There is so much self destructive stupidity in this hobby that I stopped caring a long time ago whether anyone buys these games. You're not pushing the developers to make more realistic FMs, you're pushing developers towards War Thunder. Whats there to lol about? Dude i think i am done with the kinds of you:) Have a nice day. I'm LOLing about someone who plays Rise of Flight getting all upset about the flight models in BoS. There are plenty of issues with the RoF flight models. I have no idea how you can ignore them while complaining about BoS.
6./ZG26_Emil Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 There is so much self destructive stupidity in this hobby 100% accurate
SR-F_Winger Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 By the way, I really don't care if your squad didn't buy BoM. There is so much self destructive stupidity in this hobby that I stopped caring a long time ago whether anyone buys these games. You're not pushing the developers to make more realistic FMs, you're pushing developers towards War Thunder. I'm LOLing about someone who plays Rise of Flight getting all upset about the flight models in BoS. There are plenty of issues with the RoF flight models. I have no idea how you can ignore them while complaining about BoS. And i dont care what you think. Now - /ignore and have a nice life.
BraveSirRobin Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 And i dont care what you think. Now - /ignore and have a nice life. There is no chance that I'm going to ignore you now that I know one of the most persistent critics of the BoS flight models is still flying RoF. I mean, if you're going to have such high standards, you really should apply them to every game that you play. 1
BraveSirRobin Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Of course, if you're going to have such high standards you really can't play any flight sims, because they all have issues.
Wulf Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Of course, if you're going to have such high standards you really can't play any flight sims, because they all have issues. What? I thought you were arguing that the BoS FMs were correct unless (in the absence of the actual data used by the devs) you could somehow prove otherwise (and good luck with that). Now you seem to be saying they're all a load of old bollocks but for some reason (as yet unspecified) you prefer to turn a blind eye. So ... what the hell are you arguing about then??
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