Oculus Unveils Consumer Rift Headset With Xbox One Controller

[SharpeXB]

Wow

 

"This is no developer kit. Oculus today gave the world the first look at its Rift consumer virtual reality headset which will ship with a wireless Xbox One controller. It also comes with a small, table-top camera on a stand that watches a constellation of LED markers on the Rift to track your head movement."

 

http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/11/oculus-rift-consumer/#.zqegze:LswN

Edited June 11, 2015 by SharpeXB

[JG27_Chivas]

Oculus has made some very strategic partnerships with Facebook, Samsung, and Microsoft.   The Microsoft deal should give them good support with Windows 10/ DX12, and access to the console market as well as the PC market.  Not to mention Oculus is working very closely with Nvidia, and AMD for good gpu driver support.  

 

Besides the inclusion of the Xbox controller they are working on some very interesting wireless controllers, which look like they might suit a number of different scenarios.    This should work out well, as I doubt its possible to make one controller good for all scenarios.   Flight simmers don't even need controllers, as they already have a good solution in their Hotas.   As far as shooters go, IMHO the Rift input solution looks like it may be better suited than the Vive wand inputs.   IMHO there is only way one input device style would work form most scenarios.  It would have to transform into a number of different form factors, much like....well a "transformer".

[chiliwili69]

After watching this 1 hour recorded presentation (start at minute 35)

 

http://www.twitch.tv/oculus/v/6059513

 

It is clear that Oculus is going to change the way we play games. All will start to happen next year. There will not be step back.

 

It is amazing to see the number of game companies already working on Oculus platform.

 

It is a real pitty to not see 777/1C Games on that list.

 

Sirs of 777/1C Games:  

 

On what world are you going to be in 2 years?

Are you unable to see the near future?

What are doing your competitors?

Why all space shift simulators go to VR?

 

I loved to play ROF/BOS. They were the only two games installed on my PC until you abandoned the VR route.

 

Your company have the ingredients to became the number 1 combat flight simulator in VR.  You have the competitive edge: The knowledge and the team

 

Make you business plan for the next 2-4 years and there is only one direction: VR

 

Next week is the E3, please guys, visit your old friends at Oculus and see what they can show you. And have some beers together.

[JG27_Chivas]

Early reviews of the Rift CV1 say there is no screen door effect, and the blacks are much blacker, and colors are brighter.   The blacker blacks and no screen door effect may make it possible to spot distant aircraft. 

[Jason_Williams]

After watching this 1 hour recorded presentation (start at minute 35)

 

http://www.twitch.tv/oculus/v/6059513

 

It is clear that Oculus is going to change the way we play games. All will start to happen next year. There will not be step back.

 

It is amazing to see the number of game companies already working on Oculus platform.

 

It is a real pitty to not see 777/1C Games on that list.

 

Sirs of 777/1C Games:  

 

On what world are you going to be in 2 years?

Are you unable to see the near future?

What are doing your competitors?

Why all space shift simulators go to VR?

 

I loved to play ROF/BOS. They were the only two games installed on my PC until you abandoned the VR route.

 

Your company have the ingredients to became the number 1 combat flight simulator in VR.  You have the competitive edge: The knowledge and the team

 

Make you business plan for the next 2-4 years and there is only one direction: VR

 

Next week is the E3, please guys, visit your old friends at Oculus and see what they can show you. And have some beers together.

 

Guys,

 

I've explained this in detail. We did not abandon Oculus. They changed their targets and were making some crazy demands on us if they were to continue to answer our emails. We now see what their plans are and when we can, we will support it. Why don't you also send an email to Valve asking them why they did not respond to our request to take part in the Vive headset program even though we asked? We are more than willing to work with VR platforms at at E3 today I made contact with my friends at Razer and we will explore what is possible with their VR. We fully understand the importance of VR, but for the immediate future we need to take care of other issues if this train is to keep on rolling.

 

Jason

[JG27_Chivas]

I can understand Oculus, Vive, etc wanting game developers to improve their game engines software.   The last thing the new VR technology needs is people having poor experiences trying to run unoptimized software.   Todays early VR simply won't work without maximizing all aspects of VR headsets, PC systems, Operating system software, GPU drivers, and developers gaming software.   Maybe in the future, and all the others systems are optimized, DX 9 game engines might work better in VR, but until then existing game engines will have to be improved aswell.  

 

Currently Windows10, DX12, and new AMD, Nvidia gpus/drivers are being optimized for the best VR experience, which is completely understandable.   I can also understand BOS not having the resources to upgrade their game engine when there are so many other priorities, but IMHO, VR is the future, and the sims that can't be optimized for VR won't be relevant in the not so distant future.   The BOS development quickly understood that VR is the future,  but unfortunately for early VR to work properly the goal posts had to be changed, putting BOS a lot further from that goal.

[Urra]

If you had a VR set that used Gsync, you might get around frame rate issues.

[SharpeXB]

If you had a VR set that used Gsync, you might get around frame rate issues.

Eh I don't think so. If you read what the OR people say, stuff that would not bother you in 2D like lower fps or missed frames becomes nauseating in VR. It's a much higher standard than 2D games need. They say it's basically 3x as demanding as 2D 1080p Edited June 18, 2015 by SharpeXB

[VRnoorbeast]

Guys,

 

I've explained this in detail. We did not abandon Oculus. They changed their targets and were making some crazy demands on us if they were to continue to answer our emails. We now see what their plans are and when we can, we will support it. Why don't you also send an email to Valve asking them why they did not respond to our request to take part in the Vive headset program even though we asked? We are more than willing to work with VR platforms at at E3 today I made contact with my friends at Razer and we will explore what is possible with their VR. We fully understand the importance of VR, but for the immediate future we need to take care of other issues if this train is to keep on rolling.

 

Jason

Blaming the advance of technology and Oculus for 'crazy demands' when it is the BOS devs who have decided to reamain with DX9 and low FPS, is about as far as you can stick your head in the sand and point fingers at others. DX9 is 2002 tech, it is not even used by Micosoft: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14303-oculus-support-looking-iffy/page-3?do=findComment&comment=242135

 

The free Valve Vive developer kits were being dispersed based on Valve's assessment of developer track records and capacity to deliver VR content. I for one don't need to email Valve to figure out the BOS devs have consistently over promised and failed to deliver VR, and strung customers along in the process, even after BOS formally was released.

 

From the onset developers have consistently dangled the enticement of Oculus Rift support, including some demonstrations. Yet there was no opportunity for the early backers to actually test the Rift during the development period. Rift support was then anticipated as part of the formal IL-2 BOS  release. But then IL-2 BOS was released without Oculus Rift support.

 

On the 31st October 2014, several days after the official release of IL-2 Sturmovik Battle Of Stalingrad, developers claimed that – “We’ll announce it pretty soon I think. There’s some GUI works that needs to be done before we turn Oculus on for everyone.”

 

Then there was the expectation the Rift support would be activated in November. This was then followed by a developer post of the Russian IL-2 forum that suggested the issue was an Oculus API problem with 32 bit systems and, if the Google translation is correct, that somehow Oculus was not interested in supporting simulation games. That seems very strange given the Oculus Rift support released with diverse simulator titles such as Outerra, DCS, Assetto Corsa and Elite Dangerous.

 

Many would accept any developer coming to the conclusion that for their own reasons a particular technology would not be supported. However, in this case it seems IL2 BOS developers have enticed customers with the promises of Rift support, ignored releasing any testable example during development for pre-release customers who paid to be part of the development process, continued to promise Rift support after the formal IL2 BOS release, which was long after theDK2 was available, and finally withdraw from implementing Rift support blaming Oculus 'crazy demands'.

 

I for one feel I have been deliberately mislead and worst is the BOS devs still try and blame others for their own decisions.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Riftnoorbeast

[JG27_Chivas]

I don't believe for a second that the BOS development lied to people about implementing VR support.   Loft immediately seen the potential for VR and flight sims, and within weeks implemented support for an early Rift prototype good enough to show at some European show.  Its not their fault that the OR VR requirements changed during the R&D phase of VR development.   Its not OR's fault, or BOS's fault, its just where it stands today, and that could change again.   The VR tech could change to better implement DX9 sims, and/or DX9 sims could upgrade to some higher DX features required for VR.       

[71st_AH_Hooves]

look at the very bright (and highly detailed at low FPS side)  this pretty obvious sign of VR's actual arrival, and not some far fetched "wait and see" scenrario, I think will be the best possible persuasion needed to finally get the 1CGS folks to up the anti!  If not for the love of the genre, then for the pure profit motivation.

[VRnoorbeast]

I don't believe for a second that the BOS development lied to people about implementing VR support.   Loft immediately seen the potential for VR and flight sims, and within weeks implemented support for an early Rift prototype good enough to show at some European show.  Its not their fault that the OR VR requirements changed during the R&D phase of VR development.   Its not OR's fault, or BOS's fault, its just where it stands today, and that could change again.   The VR tech could change to better implement DX9 sims, and/or DX9 sims could upgrade to some higher DX features required for VR.       

Certainly the Oculus Rift, and any quality HMD like the Vive, are going to take advantage of technology advances to provide the most advanced VR experience possible.

 

However, even though Oculus has made it clear it will leave DX9 where is belongs, in the past, that does not preclude developers like those of BOS from implementing VR support. Case in point, Live For Speed is a DX9 based game that has from the onset provided Rift support and continues to do so. There was a LFS test patch just released yesterday implementing the latest Oculust 0.6.0.0 runtime and simplified Rift enabling: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/87997

 

DX9 games can provide Rift support, it is a developer choice to do that or not. It is not that 'VR tech could change to better implement DX9 sims', it is that DX9 developers need to use the already availble technology and techniques to implement Rift support, and clearly BOS devs have chosen not to.

 

I think the long trail of broken BOS dev promises to implement Rift support, at the onset, during development and even continuing after release, is deliberately misleading when in fact a DX9 games can, even today, provide Rift support. 

[JG27_Chivas]

 I have no doubt that BOS could implement Rift support with DX9,  BUT I'm not so sure they could attain the necessary frame rate to make it a comfortable experience.    It would only give more haters more ammunition.   Current VR requires even higher frame rates than first imagined to work effectively.  When people's computer systems become more powerful, and the sim is optimized enough to average 90+ frames, then I think BOS will take a close look at VR again, unless some other headset comes out that doesn't need to run at 90Hz to be effective.  

 

I'm hoping VR will reinvigorate the flight sim market enough to lure more developers into making them with DX12+.   Windows 10, and DX12 seems to have a number of optimizations that complex combat flight sims really need. 

[LLv44_Mprhead]

 I'm hoping VR will reinvigorate the flight sim market enough to lure more developers into making them with DX12+.   Windows 10, and DX12 seems to have a number of optimizations that complex combat flight sims really need. 

 

I second that

[VRnoorbeast]

DCS, Prepar3D and War Thunder are pretty safe bets for VR support.

[chiliwili69]

Guys,

 

I've explained this in detail. We did not abandon Oculus. They changed their targets and were making some crazy demands on us if they were to continue to answer our emails. We now see what their plans are and when we can, we will support it. Why don't you also send an email to Valve asking them why they did not respond to our request to take part in the Vive headset program even though we asked? We are more than willing to work with VR platforms at at E3 today I made contact with my friends at Razer and we will explore what is possible with their VR. We fully understand the importance of VR, but for the immediate future we need to take care of other issues if this train is to keep on rolling.

 

Jason

 

Thanks Jason for giving us some hope. Hope is the last thing we loose.

 

Following your indications I have post a note to Valve in their forums. It seems they are a bit overloaded:

 

http://steamcommunity.com/games/250820/announcements/detail/155718876679273412

 

It is also good to hear that your are exploring other alternatives with Razer OSVR. I hope they can deliver same quality hardware as Rift/Vive.

 

I am very interested to keep this train rolling, and because of that I think that in the near future it would be good to have a plan to support VR devices in the same way that you support HOTAS or TrackIR. 

 

Think that in a year time more than half of current BOS/BOM people will change to flight simulators with VR support.

And think in the people with a Rift/Vive in their hands and wanting to take a truly flight in a 1st/2nd WWW fighter.

If every effort is measured by the dollar rule, what other developments could be more important than support VR?  Another plane? another scenario? another landscape?

[FuriousMeow]

Most people do not have the hardware necessary to get the FPS necessary for VR.

 

This sim is highly optimized, it runs very well for what it is doing which is a lot. The FM itself has far more calculations than some others. It is also highly optimized for multiple core CPUs unlike some others. I don't understand why some continually state it is not optimized or needs more, it is incredibly optimized.

 

If you want VR, one of the things to do would be to not come here with insinuations that are quite simply extremely false - such as false statements like this game needs to be more optimized. DX12 has neat features, and there is a lot to it, MS has also stated it will work with older gen graphics cards but to get the most out of it the card needs to be designed for DX12 like nVidia's Maxwell line. All video cards are designed to run a particular DX optimally, and while previous gen video cards are going to work with DX12 - the majority of improvements will be seen by cards designed to take advantage of that architecture. It will not save cards 3 or 4 generations old.

 

Most who want VR simply do not have the systems capable of supporting them right now. Even mine is questionable if it will run VR at acceptable framerates and I have an i7 4770k @ 4.4GHz with 2x 780Tis in SLI that boost to 1150MHz when playing games.

 

OR consumer version is still, at least, 8 months away. Considering the date keeps being pushed back, I won't be surprised if it's still a year away. There are far more immediate concerns and needs to be attended to by this small but dedicated team to keep moving forward.

Edited June 27, 2015 by FuriousMeow

[JG27_Chivas]

Most people do not have the hardware necessary to get the FPS necessary for VR.

 

This sim is highly optimized, it runs very well for what it is doing which is a lot. The FM itself has far more calculations than some others. It is also highly optimized for multiple core CPUs unlike some others. I don't understand why some continually state it is not optimized or needs more, it is incredibly optimized.

 

If you want VR, one of the things to do would be to not come here with insinuations that are quite simply extremely false - such as false statements like this game needs to be more optimized. DX12 has neat features, and there is a lot to it, MS has also stated it will work with older gen graphics cards but to get the most out of it the card needs to be designed for DX12 like nVidia's Maxwell line. All video cards are designed to run a particular DX optimally, and while previous gen video cards are going to work with DX12 - the majority of improvements will be seen by cards designed to take advantage of that architecture. It will not save cards 3 or 4 generations old.

 

Most who want VR simply do not have the systems capable of supporting them right now. Even mine is questionable if it will run VR at acceptable framerates and I have an i7 4770k @ 4.4GHz with 2x 780Tis in SLI that boost to 1150MHz when playing games.

 

OR consumer version is still, at least, 8 months away. Considering the date keeps being pushed back, I won't be surprised if it's still a year away. There are far more immediate concerns and needs to be attended to by this small but dedicated team to keep moving forward.

 

When people are saying the sim requires optimizations, they are mostly referring to the optimisations required to run VR effectively.   There is no doubt that the development currently has much higher priorities, but if they want to remain relevant in the not so distant future they will have to implement VR or die.   We know that the 2D flight sim genre is small now, but it will be infinitesimal when VR flight sims take over, making it impossible for any 2D developer to survive.     If the BOS development still plans to be around longer than the original IL-2 series, they will have to adapt.

[Dakpilot]

Latest news from OR

 

"“In these early days, probably for at least two years, VR is going to be primarily for gamers and enthusiasts that are willing to invest in high-end machines,” said Palmer Luckey, the founder of Oculus VR, in an interview with Re/Code. “VR is going to become something mainstream, but it is not going to happen right away. You just do not have the horsepower to make it happen on a device, much less a cheap enough and comfortable enough device that a normal consumer is going to want to have.”

 

Also the latest news of Intel slylake next gen CPU's seem very disappointing with a 4-8% performance increase in real world terms from Haswell, not even broadwell refresh, was hoping for a lot better. AMD new super GPU is a damp squib and will result in Fury rather than being one...

 

Generally things are a bit Miff in the tech world of Desktop computing, all we need is for DX12 to be more hype than performance...oh well I guess Win10 will be here soonish

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[SharpeXB]

VR will go mainstream when Facebook starts using DCS Las Vegas for advertising space... Oh it will happen! ;-)

[FuriousMeow]

When people are saying the sim requires optimizations, they are mostly referring to the optimisations required to run VR effectively.   There is no doubt that the development currently has much higher priorities, but if they want to remain relevant in the not so distant future they will have to implement VR or die.   We know that the 2D flight sim genre is small now, but it will be infinitesimal when VR flight sims take over, making it impossible for any 2D developer to survive.     If the BOS development still plans to be around longer than the original IL-2 series, they will have to adapt.

 

They have several years to get BoS to run on VR. It will take that long for VR to gain an acceptable market share to even start focusing on.

 

VR isn't going to be adopted day 1. It will be at least two years after release of OR, and most likely longer due to many waiting to see what the BEST VR device is, before a third of the gaming market has a VR device and has the hardware capable of running it. Plus, DX12 is Windows 10. Windows 10 won't be adopted by half of the market for at least three years after release and based on all previous OS releases most likely 5 to 7 years. Very few will install Windows10 within 6 months of release, VERY few.

 

BoS doesn't have to optimize for OR, OR has to optimize for air combat sims. As of yet, the PPI isn't sufficient for air combat sims - and the systems required to run it maybe 15% of simmers have the hardware. The biggest point of contention isn't BoS, or any air combat sim, it's the VR devices. They currently don't support long range visuals. They are insufficient and not optimized for air combat sims.

 

There are so many variables for VR that to presume air combat sims rely on it, let alone any market, is premature to say the least. Yeah, it's cool, and when the tech finally drops I think the few that can run it are going to love it - but everyone has a budget and the majority will not be able to afford the VR requirements from the device itself to the hardware and OS required to run it for several years. Not to mention it's still 6 months to a year away from even the commercial debut.

 

VR flight sims are not going to be infinitesimal, they will remain limited. VR arcade flight games will be better off but they aren't going to be as great either. Still limited. VR isn't going to make air combat sims blow up, just not going to happen. Above the VR, the system upgrades, there's also the peripherals and ... nope. Just nope.

Edited July 1, 2015 by FuriousMeow

[JG27_Chivas]

They have several years to get BoS to run on VR. It will take that long for VR to gain an acceptable market share to even start focusing on.

 

VR isn't going to be adopted day 1. It will be at least two years after release of OR, and most likely longer due to many waiting to see what the BEST VR device is, before a third of the gaming market has a VR device and has the hardware capable of running it. Plus, DX12 is Windows 10. Windows 10 won't be adopted by half of the market for at least three years after release and based on all previous OS releases most likely 5 to 7 years. Very few will install Windows10 within 6 months of release, VERY few.

 

BoS doesn't have to optimize for OR, OR has to optimize for air combat sims. As of yet, the PPI isn't sufficient for air combat sims - and the systems required to run it maybe 15% of simmers have the hardware. The biggest point of contention isn't BoS, or any air combat sim, it's the VR devices. They currently don't support long range visuals. They are insufficient and not optimized for air combat sims.

 

There are so many variables for VR that to presume air combat sims rely on it, let alone any market, is premature to say the least. Yeah, it's cool, and when the tech finally drops I think the few that can run it are going to love it - but everyone has a budget and the majority will not be able to afford the VR requirements from the device itself to the hardware and OS required to run it for several years. Not to mention it's still 6 months to a year away from even the commercial debut.

 

VR flight sims are not going to be infinitesimal, they will remain limited. VR arcade flight games will be better off but they aren't going to be as great either. Still limited. VR isn't going to make air combat sims blow up, just not going to happen. Above the VR, the system upgrades, there's also the peripherals and ... nope. Just nope.

 

 

Nobody said anything about VR being adopted overnight, and the main reason that VR is currently being directed mainly at gamers, who are basically the only people with the systems, and willingness to buy the systems that early VR requires.  Flight simmers have always been willing to buy the latest systems, as that's what flight sims require for the best experience.  Not to mention that Windows 10, and DX12 will be free for most of us.

 

BOS is talking about being around for another ten plus years.  If they want to be relevant they will have to adapt to VR, and yes BOS "will" have to adapt its software to work properly in VR.  Its impossible for VR headsets to adapt to unoptimized game software.

 

VR will attract more people to flight sims.   People have always be awed by flight, and now they will be able to experience the feel of flight like never before, without actually flying, and its inherent dangers.  Exploring modern and historic time periods like never before.

 

They may not even need peripherals.  VR headsets will come with inputs.  I can see people creating cradles for the Oculus touch inputs, that could be used as stick and throttle, and the best part is the ability to removed the inputs from their cradles to adjust cockpit switches/rotaries etc.  This would be more realistic than moving our hands to the mouse and then the cockpit switch.

 

VR is here to stay.   There will still be people enjoying 2D activities, but not enough to support developers.  Most people will eventually move on to VR taking the developers with them.   

Edited July 2, 2015 by JG27_Chivas

[SharpeXB]

3D video was supposed to be big and it died. Why? Because you have to wear 3D glasses. Nobody liked wearing them.

Hopefully VR doesn't fall on its face the same way.

[JG27_Chivas]

3D video was supposed to be big and it died. Why? Because you have to wear 3D glasses. Nobody liked wearing them.

Hopefully VR doesn't fall on its face the same way.

 

This is an argument that a number of people have made.  IMHO there is no comparison between the immersion of a 3DTV and the immersion of VR/AR.   There is a HUGE difference between looking at 3D world and being "IN" a 3D world.