Are flight-Simmers goin to end up like Dinosaurs ?

[jaydee]

Hi all , I just checked out BOS multiplayer ! NO one, not one ! Tried Atag, not one there either !......Not one flightsimmer on this whole Planet Earth !

I remember when I used to have to Queue to join Skies of Valour ! I could go and get a beer, checkout the Footy and when I come back I could have a ten minute wait before a Slot became available(often I wanted to fly the "other colour"), I took that slot gladly.

What has happened ? Have we become the most Anal, Rivet Counting, Impossible (I want it "Historic "or not at all),(and I don't want to Pay )self Righteous TINY group of "Gamers". 

I think its about time anyone who has  a real Passion for flight simming needs to stand up for their Hobby.

Too often, we see the insecure people amongst us (with a "God knows" Agenda) trying to wreck every step of progress !

They "Always" have Charts an Graphs to defend themselves ! ( I Want it Right or NOT at all ).

Too often we have people that want to"Jump" on the Diffrences in COD/BoS /Dcs......Blah blah blah....one is better then the other....I

I want Jason to make Money. I want ED to make money ! I look forward to TF 5 and I want the ATAG server to do well !

This has been my passion since Commoder 64.....and I feel like its slipping away.

I really hope I am wrong ! ~S~

 

[Feathered_IV]

Dinosaurs died out because the environment deteriorated to the point where they could no longer survive. Developers, take note.

[Finkeren]

You know what happened to the dinosaurs right?

 

Not just this:

 

 

But this:

 

Dinosaurs today are a more diverse group (measured in number of species) than mammals are.

 

I think the same thing is happening right now to the flight simming world. We're not going to dominate anymore, but we're certainly gonna be there in our specialised niche, because noone can fly like we can, and there will still be sims developed to cater to our appetites.

[jeanba]

Great post Finkeren

[Finkeren]

And just to be clear: I absolutely acknowledge the problems jaydee put forward in the OP, we do need look at ourselves and work actively to keep the simming community alive and healthy and support the dedicated efforts of the few flight sim developers left.

 

Personally I'll be returning online as soon as I've gotten enough experience on flying with pedals to not completely embarrass myself.

[ST_ami7b5]

40.000 - 60.000 most of the time in War Thunder ( 41.097 ATM, including tankers, but still...)

 

Food for thought...

[sallee]

You know what happened to the dinosaurs right?

 

Not just this:

 

 

But this:

 

Dinosaurs today are a more diverse group (measured in number of species) than mammals are.

 

I think the same thing is happening right now to the flight simming world. We're not going to dominate anymore, but we're certainly gonna be there in our specialised niche, because noone can fly like we can, and there will still be sims developed to cater to our appetites.

The colour on that red-bellied woodpecker is completely wrong and sucks...and is arcadish for a hard core bird simmer like me. I refuse to buy that bird book until it's right.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I wonder what a poll on average age showed back in 2002....I'm not sure the community is so much older although I think the Il2 success brought in a lot of people who weren't hardcore simmers. I suspect the number of hardcore simmers are the same but we're now spread out over 5 or more sims.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I guess this is more like the people in IL-2.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

OT: I have a metatarsal bone from a Cretaceous crocodile :D

[Finkeren]

40.000 - 60.000 most of the time in War Thunder ( 41.097 ATM, including tankers, but still...)

 

Food for thought...

 

There are propably still more people watching 'The Bold And The Beautiful' than watch 'Game Of Thrones'. 

 

I don't know if that says anything about the series themselves, but it definately says something about cost and accessibility.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Finkeren

[BlitzPig_EL]

In essence, in the quest for ever greater fidelity in every aspect of combat flight simulation, somewhere along the way "fun" fell by the wayside.

 

So now, instead of 300 to 500 people in Hyperlobby on most days, we have 50 to 70 on a good weekend  with a like number playing Original IL2.

 

The balance between fun and uber realism has gone too far away from fun.  It's not that hard to understand.

 

For most people, micromanaging every aircraft system is not fun.  Shooting down the bad guys and blowing up their stuff on the ground is.

 

Oleg knew this.   Most devs today don't get it.

 

The squeaky wheels clamoring for more "study sim" features got what they want.  A private play ground that is economically unsustainable.

Edited June 10, 2015 by BlitzPig_EL

[150GCT_Veltro]

40.000 - 60.000 most of the time in War Thunder ( 41.097 ATM, including tankers, but still...)

 

Food for thought...

 

+1

 

And...just to know, is WT a single player game?

 

Again...food for thought...

Edited June 10, 2015 by 150GCT_Veltro

[unreasonable]

And just to be clear: I absolutely acknowledge the problems jaydee put forward in the OP, we do need look at ourselves and work actively to keep the simming community alive and healthy and support the dedicated efforts of the few flight sim developers left.

 

Personally I'll be returning online as soon as I've gotten enough experience on flying with pedals to not completely embarrass myself.

Now I am confused: which is it, simms are going to be a varied and diverse group anyway so what does it matter if they have an asteroid sized bad patch, or they are so endangered that we should all adopt an vulnerable simm to protect them from extinction?

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Too much Fneb

[Finkeren]

Now I am confused: which is it, simms are going to be a varied and diverse group anyway so what does it matter if they have an asteroid sized bad patch, or they are so endangered that we should all adopt an vulnerable simm to protect them from extinction?

 

I'd say that right now, we actually are in danger of extinction, but we have the opportunity to reinvigorate both the community and the genre, if we understand how to adapt and not get stuck in old conflicts.

[Lusekofte]

When the market looks as grim as that, maybe we should appreciate that some companies do take the chance and invest in it. But in European timezone there are about the same amount of players in cod and BOS between 40 to 70 weekdays. In weekends the numbers are in cod favors 100 + while it is 100- in BOS. US and aussie time zones are probably like the author say

[Veteran66]

the WWII combat flight sim genre is dead, only WWII combat flight shooters have a high.

[Blooddawn1942]

So we are the last of a dying breed. But maybe there is still hope, because the present situation is not too bad at all. It must not neccesearily get worse. We will see...

[Feathered_IV]

You know what happened to the dinosaurs right?

 

 

Yeah I know.  Those that didn't go extinct went on to become the yellow tailed FPSer, the ring-necked witcher player and the sulphur crested indie gamer. 

[Veteran66]

So we are the last of a dying breed. But maybe there is still hope, because the present situation is not too bad at all. It must not neccesearily get worse. We will see...

this is why we must support the WWII combat flight sim genre, it is for us not only for the Dev`s.

[Blooddawn1942]

Yes. I see it in the same way. Without the dedicated support from the community, our beloved genre will not survive in the long run.

I purchase most sims and DCS modules as soon as they are released for the full price in order to support what I love. Of cause not everybody has the spare coins to do so, and thats totally allright.

But I for myself decided to put the cash on the table so that the devs can keep rolling.

[BraveSirRobin]

Dinosaurs died out because the environment deteriorated to the point where they could no longer survive. Developers, take note.

 

The problem is not the developers.  

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Yes. I see it in the same way. Without the dedicated support from the community, our beloved genre will not survive in the long run.

I purchase most sims and DCS modules as soon as they are released for the full price in order to support what I love. Of cause not everybody has the spare coins to do so, and thats totally allright.

But I for myself decided to put the cash on the table so that the devs can keep rolling.

 

Same here, I've not even flown most of the stuff I bought although I keep telling myself I will one day

[Potenz]

Oleg knew this.   Most devs today don't get it.

 

And that's why he trashed SOW/CloD to the point of no return...

Edited June 10, 2015 by Erg./JG54_Potenz

[Blooddawn1942]

Same here, I've not even flown most of the stuff I bought although I keep telling myself I will one day

Well, I have the same problem. Time is rare. I guess for the most of us, because for I have learned, that the most simmers are grown up men with job and family dutys.

But I have my sparetime, and I love to spend it with this hobby, besides other things I like beside simming.

So I manage to fly everything I own more or less regularly.

Sure, one or another sim or DCS module may get more or less attention. This differs from time to time.

[BraveSirRobin]

It seems to be an accepted fact that a successful combat sim must have a good SP campaign.  What does the War Thunder SP campaign look like?

[Feathered_IV]

Dunno.  I uninstalled it and never paid a cent.

[BraveSirRobin]

I was hoping to hear from someone who does know.

[unreasonable]

I will fly - and buy - a sim as long as I enjoy it and no longer. I am not going to spend my limited time playing a game because "the genre" or "the community" needs support - or a subsidy.

 

If I want to be altruistic there are a million and one more important things to worry about and act on than the fate of a computer game.

 

This is a commercial entertainment product: personally right now BoS does not entertain me very much while RoF still does, and while I hope that BoS/BoM/BoWherever will entertain me in future, I see the no need to adapt to whatever Moscow's agenda happens to be if they have no intention of adapting to me. I will adapt all right - but to Witcher 3 or Fallout 4, or even Spider Solitaire if needs must. 

 

Meanwhile I just check in occasionally, more in hope than expectation, to see if anything appealing to me is in the works. Instead I see the usual comic opera.

 

The script runs like this:

 

Supporter - Buy, BoS/BoM, because it might change for the better!

 

Developers - It is already so good that it is not going to change.

 

Sceptic - The devs say it is not going to change!

 

Supporter - No, they are just kidding, anyway you are missing the point that...[insert strawman here (for an example see BSR's post above)]....orgy of wishful thinking follows...

[Blooddawn1942]

As far as I know, SP campaigns can be purchased seperatly. But I have no Idea how they look like and if they are worth the money.

I use WT only for tank battles, which is quiet entertaining.

[-Roy-Cheesy-Chops]

well said jay dee

[Sokol1]

 

 

What has happened ? Have we become the most Anal, Rivet Counting, Impossible (I want it "Historic "or not at all),(and I don't want to Pay )self Righteous TINY group of "Gamers". 

 

I think if you are "simmer" you should want all this and not less, because if you are only "gamer", the War Thunder queue goes well, and the "game" in that "sim" is lot of fun.

 

The "environment" has changed. 

Edited June 10, 2015 by Sokol1

[Bearcat]

In essence, in the quest for ever greater fidelity in every aspect of combat flight simulation, somewhere along the way "fun" fell by the wayside.

 

So now, instead of 300 to 500 people in Hyperlobby on most days, we have 50 to 70 on a good weekend  with a like number playing Original IL2.

 

The balance between fun and uber realism has gone too far away from fun.  It's not that hard to understand.

 

For most people, micromanaging every aircraft system is not fun.  Shooting down the bad guys and blowing up their stuff on the ground is.

 

Oleg knew this.   Most devs today don't get it.

 

The squeaky wheels clamoring for more "study sim" features got what they want.  A private play ground that is economically unsustainable.

 

Sometimes I wonder.. but yeah.. the fun aspect needs to be a high priority.. but then you have situations where what the developers may think is fun may not be fun to a large part of the community. 

 

So we are the last of a dying breed. But maybe there is still hope, because the present situation is not too bad at all. It must not neccesearily get worse. We will see...

 

+1

 

this is why we must support the WWII combat flight sim genre, it is for us not only for the Dev`s.

 

+1

 

The problem is not the developers.  

 

I think partly it is.. I seriously believe that any developer who does not use IL2  and what it does as a template for what works across the board and builds from there is asking for trouble.. and I have been saying that from day one... Even on the Gaijin forums during the WoP days..

 

Same here, I've not even flown most of the stuff I bought although I keep telling myself I will one day

 

+ 1 I have barely flown FC3, flew the sabre a few times.. the 190 and 109 a few times.. I still have BS and to this day I only flew it a handful of times.. In DCS I fly the P-51 90% of the time..

 

It seems to be an accepted fact that a successful combat sim must have a good SP campaign.  What does the War Thunder SP campaign look like?

 

Good question..

[BraveSirRobin]

Supporter - No, they are just kidding, anyway you are missing the point that...[insert strawman here (for an example see BSR's post above)]....orgy of wishful thinking follows...

 

What the hell are you talking about?  All I hear in here is how important a good SP career is for a flight sim.  War Thunder is the most popular flight sim on the market.  It must have a really great SP campaign.  I don't own the game, so I'm curious about the details of WT SP campaign.  Do you actually know what a strawman is?

I think partly it is.. I seriously believe that any developer who does not use IL2  and what it does as a template for what works across the board and builds from there is asking for trouble..

 

I'm pretty sure that War Thunder does not follow the IL2 template in any way, never mind "across the board", and that game is very popular.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

The day IL2 turns in to Wow Thunder I'll hang my stick and throttle up and move on to something else 

[BraveSirRobin]

I'm not saying that it should, I'm just saying that WT is very popular.  That would appear to contradict what many of the "experts" in here think is necessary for a popular flight sim.

[MiloMorai]

How is the 'rivet counting' in WT?

[BraveSirRobin]

I suspect the rivet counters are mostly ignored.

[3instein]

It seems to be an accepted fact that a successful combat sim must have a good SP campaign.  What does the War Thunder SP campaign look like?

Warthunder does what it does well, i.e: Air quake that any 10 year old can pick up and go straight in to blow stuff up, instant gratification that youngsters require these days.

 

Most, if not all that download WT already knew that it's an online MP air quake game that you can just jump straight in and have a blast with no experience or effort required, not a SP oriented game at all.

 

I would have thought with your experience with this genre that you would have understood why a SP campaign would be beneficial to this type of game.

 

Judging by the MP statistics and numerous posts here and elsewhere, BoS has unfortunately failed at grabbing the WT crowd, or if they weren't going after the WT generation something is severely wrong with the game that has obviously failed in it's bid to generate any decent MP numbers, what that is I am not sure as I very rarely play MP.  

 

Since it is evidently plain to see that most BoS owners do not play MP, I can only surmise that the biggest number of BoS owners bought the game to play offline, with a decent single player campaign. 

 

If you remember correctly, during early access the vision for this game was stated by the devs to be mainly aimed at SP and was to be built around a "robust" SP campaign, this in my opinion has failed to materialise.

 

In short, a decent SP campaign is sorely needed to inject some excitement and purpose into this game, because as it stands just now with no decent SP campaign I cannot see this game flourishing, which TBH is a real shame.

 

Mick.