Who in this community has coding experience?

[LLv24_Zami]

I really hope code Messiah will rise from somewhere. I think it is essential to get better campaign for the bright future of this series.

 

I assume most of the players are SP like me and the current campaign system just is not

enough to keep interest in long term.

[Dakpilot]

[Edited]

 

Not really  in reference to you, but sorry, a Troll is a Troll not anyone's 'freedom fighter'

 

This seems to possibly have merit as potentially a legitimate useful thread, lets try and keep on topic and leave the 'arguments' for other threads 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited May 27, 2015 by Bearcat

[=VARP=Cygann]

Pat isn't interested in doing it for money. If we paid his normal hourly wage it would be tens of thousands of dollars which is unlikely to be generated even though it seems there is interest. He took donations for his ROF work and amounted to less than one month's mortgage payment. He built it for a challenge and he loves WWI. I'm not going to speak for Pat though. He is willing to help a proper programmer get his feet wet and then hand it off. That's all I can ask of the guy.

 

And this has nothing to do with Mods On or Off. This is simply about harnessing our mission tech and wrapping a standalone GUI around building and tracking those missions that are generated.

 

Jason

 

 

 

The job to take PWCG to BOS is a very big job, but it is possible and I have been working on this solution for a while. Pat has already done some preliminary work setting up PWCG for the conversion, but he is not the one to finish it. We had someone on board who was a professional programmer, but he seems to have disappeared for whatever reason. This is the usual result of trying to collaborate with random members of the community on projects whether they be models or coding with no pay or very little. 

 

 

Sorry Jason but I simply have to ask this.

 

First you have Mr. Pat giving you source code, preparing it for easier transition for IL2, even willing to tutor new programmer into starting. This alone is huge know-how and jump start, guessing free of charge of with limited expense.

 

Secondly you said it yourself that you can't find many professionals willing to do hard work unpaid (I can see that one coming since most of us programmers usually have full time job in coding, it's hard to dig into more after work, especially unpaid, and not burn out and quit at first real life thing that demands our attention and has priority over hobby).

 

So here is what I really don't understand and ask. With all that in-house knowledge about engine and mission building and logging, with all the jump starting Mr. Pat offers, and with all the community help on design art (historical skins) and historical data mining that you would for sure get for free from enthusiasts here, why in the world don't you place single professional from your company with internal knowledge of the code to do this job?

 

I mean such person is already paid to work for you and is by far the best option to be the center of this project any have some community volunteers help him.

 

I know that you guys in 777 understand how important this project would be for future of BOS/BOM and and any other expansions. So I don't understand how is investing into developing crucial part not your priority over hope that community one day might pull it off?

 

I mean this was expected, even promised couple years ago how SP will be new IL2's main selling point. And then we got that QMB someone randomized and called campaign but it is obvious it was put together in a hurry, probably in 2-3 months work all together prior to release. It's not badly done for what it is, but it's not a campaign most if not all your customers expected after ROF.

[Almenas]

Can´t understand, why 777 isn´t doing this job of just implement ROF campaign into BOS. And speaking about improving it,

[Feathered_IV]

I don't know. There must be some wellspring of deeply dedicated casual gamers that we're not aware of.

[Bearcat]

Guys.. let's try to keep this thread in the spirit in which it is intended...

 

As to some of the other questions.. who knows.. perhaps they have a plan that they have to stick to in order to stay afloat.... Jason said himself that this endeavor will not have the involvement of Moscow... Who knows why it is not a priority based on the community's response .. In any case .. options have been floated and possibilities do exist... If I had the skills I would take it on myself.

[wtornado]

Bearcat if I had coding skills too hehehe.

 

Well I hope they find someone that will work for free and that is talented enough

to do the coding.

 

Always said it since the beginning the lack of a user friendly Mission builder, Co-oPs

and running personal servers to just play with a few guys is hurting this game already.

 

 

Anyone know how the BOM sales are going?

 

I pretty well play single player now due to the fact that  IL-2 NO LONGER offers me

what I would like so it would be really nice if you and Mr Williams could could find a REAL coder.

 

Time will tell and 777 studios and 1c would profit from this the most with sales.It is all about sales.

 

For now only one silver bar under my name.Lets see if the devs can convince me otherwise. 

[Bearcat]

I don't have anything to do with it.. I just moderate the forums..  and FWIW I agree with everything you said..  although for me at the moment I still get a great deal of enjoyment out of IL2 '46. The only reason I started this thread was just to see what was out there and from my perspective .. if we are going to speculate then speculate on the positives.. or the potential positives rather than the negatives.. There will always be negatives.. and focusing on them will not bring solutions any closer.

[LLv24_Zami]

Guys.. let's try to keep this thread in the spirit in which it is intended...

 

As to some of the other questions.. who knows.. perhaps they have a plan that they have to stick to in order to stay afloat.... Jason said himself that this endeavor will not have the involvement of Moscow... Who knows why it is not a priority based on the community's response .. In any case .. options have been floated and possibilities do exist... If I had the skills I would take it on myself.

 

I dont know either but it should be top priority for everyone in the team, including Moscow guys. They should really take this campaign issue seriously, it is most important part of the game for SP players.

 

That being said, now I am going to give room for a people who can actually code

[Comes]

 

 

 

 

Sorry Jason but I simply have to ask this.

 

...

 

This is what I keep asing myself...

[Urra]

I'm sure someone may be found someday, but it feels like finding Neo and bringing him to the Oracle.

[Jason_Williams]

 

 

 

 

Sorry Jason but I simply have to ask this.

 

First you have Mr. Pat giving you source code, preparing it for easier transition for IL2, even willing to tutor new programmer into starting. This alone is huge know-how and jump start, guessing free of charge of with limited expense.

 

Secondly you said it yourself that you can't find many professionals willing to do hard work unpaid (I can see that one coming since most of us programmers usually have full time job in coding, it's hard to dig into more after work, especially unpaid, and not burn out and quit at first real life thing that demands our attention and has priority over hobby).

 

So here is what I really don't understand and ask. With all that in-house knowledge about engine and mission building and logging, with all the jump starting Mr. Pat offers, and with all the community help on design art (historical skins) and historical data mining that you would for sure get for free from enthusiasts here, why in the world don't you place single professional from your company with internal knowledge of the code to do this job?

 

I mean such person is already paid to work for you and is by far the best option to be the center of this project any have some community volunteers help him.

 

I know that you guys in 777 understand how important this project would be for future of BOS/BOM and and any other expansions. So I don't understand how is investing into developing crucial part not your priority over hope that community one day might pull it off?

 

I mean this was expected, even promised couple years ago how SP will be new IL2's main selling point. And then we got that QMB someone randomized and called campaign but it is obvious it was put together in a hurry, probably in 2-3 months work all together prior to release. It's not badly done for what it is, but it's not a campaign most if not all your customers expected after ROF.

 

 

Very simple answer. Not my decision. And we've always done everything in a hurry no matter how big or small. I'm just trying to use Pat's tool to fill a want in the community.

 

Jason

[SharpeXB]

It's certain that everything I know about programming could be written in the dot at the end of this sentence.

But it seems to me that it just wouldn't take that much work to change the current BoS Campaign into a Career format like the RoF one.

The basics are all there already. The mission generation etc.

 

All it needs is:

Add the ability to choose a side and a pilot name

 

Add a calendar progression day by day instead of the chapters. The phases of the battle happening along a timeline. The seasonal maps are coming and those of course follow the timeline.

 

Put the squadrons and units in. Along with their skins.

 

Create a form of rank or advancement along with the points that are akready there. Keep the awards or make historical ones.

 

There needs to be some research about where these units were and move to. But elaborate details like the unit roster and such aren't needed.

 

In a nutshell. That's it. If anyone hasn't tried the RoF career that's basically what it is. It's not too far off from the BoS campaign but the addition of those features makes it much more appealing and replayable. And the Battle of Stalingrad isn't as huge as the entire Western Front from 1916-1918 as is depicted in RoF. It only lasts about 5 months. There's great work done in RoF to reasearch the national awards and their criteria and match how it changes over the course of the war. Stalingrad isn't this elaborate. There are only two nations here instead of five. And RoF even delves into complex regional and service branch differences. So does PWCG

Pat's work on his Campaign is truly incredible but a fun Career Mode for BoS doesn't need to rise to that level. Even something like the above would suffice.

So although this is work it just doesn't sound like it's overwhelmingly difficult.

Edited May 27, 2015 by SharpeXB

[ZaknafeinTV]

To be honest for me Single player in BoS looks familiar with pwcg in RoF.

 

 

But what do I know

 

S!

[SharpeXB]

To be honest for me Single player in BoS looks familiar with pwcg in RoF

 

Yes, they are actually more similar than they are different. BoS even just added a feature PWCG has which is the after action "report" that shows where you flew and what happened and where. One difference I think is really good in BoS is the Long and Short mission concept. That's a very good idea for WWII since realistically long missions aren't very feasible for most players. I like the way it gives you the option and rewards you with more points for doing so. RoF you can simply make your mission shorter by quitting in the air (over your own lines) but you aren't guven any extra credit for landing. You also can't air start. That's a good feature that can still get incorporated into a Career Mode.

[TheNotoriousFNG]

One of the challenges here seems to be getting someone onto the project who can be compensated for the time they surrender working on it. It seems that most of us here don't have the free time to work on such a project (I would assume most of us would rather spend that free time relaxing after work/studying), or even the know how to do so. I know there are a lot of great ideas and very talented writers in/coming from the community (hats off to Feathered for his BoS SP campaign ideas ) so a way to integrate these would be nice. Perhaps breaking down the project further would allow more progress to be made on it?

 

There's the idea of funding it somehow, namely through donations but I don't know if that would be over the line with respecting the product produced by 1C/777?

[6./ZG26_Emil]

One of the challenges here seems to be getting someone onto the project who can be compensated for the time they surrender working on it. It seems that most of us here don't have the free time to work on such a project (I would assume most of us would rather spend that free time relaxing after work/studying), or even the know how to do so. I know there are a lot of great ideas and very talented writers in/coming from the community (hats off to Feathered for his BoS SP campaign ideas ) so a way to integrate these would be nice. Perhaps breaking down the project further would allow more progress to be made on it?

 

There's the idea of funding it somehow, namely through donations but I don't know if that would be over the line with respecting the product produced by 1C/777?

 

Jason said they did have donations for PWCG but it didn't generate very much compared to the real cost a professional programmers time...in his words "amounted to less than one month's mortgage payment"

[Dutch2]

Pat did all the programing in Java, this piece of software is only suitable for specialized people, that seems to be limited here. right!! 

This sounds maybe like a stupid question, sorry if so, but why using Java, is there not something more simple to handle like MS-Access? I know long time ago vonTom did use a vbasic software to program his RB3d Campaign manager. 

If we have something simple then also more people could help. 

 

BTW in RoF there is also another build in Java, campaign manager:   http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/37032-new-campaign-tool-career-mission-generator/?hl=campaign%20generator

 

 

 

edit: Jason thanks for the reply in this topic.  

Edited May 27, 2015 by Dutch2

[SharpeXB]

It would be easier for 1CGS to just reformat the campaign into a career style going forward with BoM than to keep engaging or trying to engage 3rd parties. The format of the current campaign is so close to the RoF Career it just can't be that much extra work. Such extra work as it is could be done by community volunteers. Squadrons, awards, skins etc. that's the kind of thing community people can do. The programming part already seems to be there in BoS. It just needs some small adjustments.

If the worry on the part of the devs is that they'll sink a lot of work into this only to have it outdone by a third party now seems unlikely if that third party is so difficult to find.

Edited May 27, 2015 by SharpeXB

[TheNotoriousFNG]

Jason said they did have donations for PWCG but it didn't generate very much compared to the real cost a professional programmers time...in his words "amounted to less than one month's mortgage payment"

 

Yeah, I remembered seeing that post after I'd made mine. With a supposed greater interest in WWII, would there be more donations? The alternative is rather than making it free, charging money for it a la Desastersoft's campaigns for CloD.

 

 

Pat did all the programing in Java, this piece of software is only suitable for specialized people, that seems to be limited here. right!! 

This sounds maybe like a stupid question, sorry if so, but why using Java, is there not something more simple to handle like MS-Access? I know long time ago vonTom did use a vbasic software to program his RB3d Campaign manager. 

If we have something simple then also more people could help. 

 

BTW in RoF there is also another build in Java, campaign manager:   http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/37032-new-campaign-tool-career-mission-generator/?hl=campaign%20generator

 

 

 

edit: Jason thanks for the reply in this topic.  

 

That's a cool link, thanks for that!    Are there any other options for language in building a campaign generator?

 

 

It would be easier for 1CGS to just reformat the campaign into a career style going forward with BoM than to keep engaging or trying to engage 3rd parties. The format of the current campaign is so close to the RoF Career it just can't be that much extra work. Such extra work as it is could be done by community volunteers. Squadrons, skins etc. that's the kind of thing community people can do.

 

I think this may have been discussed before (and I know a lot of talented members have volunteered to do the extra work if the devs will lay the groundwork). Because the campaign was set up as a way to unlock things, I believe that's why it's so locked down/limited. If it had been persistent XP across all modes, I think the campaign could've/would've been more open.

 

I do like the videos between campaign chapters, but that's where it starts to fall apart. Having the gamey points such as having to complete an objective or series of objectives just to complete a mission is dumb...one's primary goal should be to survive. If you fail to complete objectives, you don't get XP. In a dream campaign, there would be penalties for continually failing to meet objectives, but that's for another thread all together.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Let me start by saying I am not a great coder or have the skills to do this.

 

I ask that the devs can post the all the required source code and also take the time to write a brief that contains a list of things/tasks that need 2 be completed to make such a conversion giving reference to the devs understanding of the problems based on Pat's insight that he has given.

 

The brief should give a list of the general tasks needed in a consise but detailed as much as time allows manner.

 

This way the task could be broken down and distributed through the community so not one person has to take on the entire task. Also will allow people that have knowledge in language a and not b or c ... To be able to contribute or solve a particular problem with out having to have the skills to solve the whole thing.

 

I think this "crowd knowlege" aproach could be highly beneficial and may be the only possible alternative

Edited May 27, 2015 by [TBC]AeroACE

[SharpeXB]

Because the campaign was set up as a way to unlock things, I believe that's why it's so locked down/limited. If it had been persistent XP across all modes, I think the campaign could've/would've been more open.

 

I do like the videos between campaign chapters, but that's where it starts to fall apart. Having the gamey points such as having to complete an objective or series of objectives just to complete a mission is dumb...one's primary goal should be to survive. If you fail to complete objectives, you don't get XP. In a dream campaign, there would be penalties for continually failing to meet objectives, but that's for another thread all together.

I think there could still be unlocks in a career format. "You've been given rockets for your plane"

There are still points and promotions.

And the chapter videos can still be there too when you reach certain milestones in the battle.

I can see a career format being made out of the current campaign quite easily.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I think there could still be unlocks in a career format. "You've been given rockets for your plane"

There are still points and promotions.

And the chapter videos can still be there too when you reach certain milestones in the battle.

I can see a career format being made out of the current campaign quite easily.

 

I agree about the unlocks just word it differently, for example with promotion you get your own ground crew who have access to field mods etc or something like that.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

The alternative is rather than making it free, charging money for it a la Desastersoft's campaigns for CloD.

Although they did a fantastic job on 3rd party campaigns for Clod,I believe there was little take up and for all the time and effort put is there was not much return. I don't think that they are planning any further campaigns as a direct result.   

[TheNotoriousFNG]

I think there could still be unlocks in a career format. "You've been given rockets for your plane"

There are still points and promotions.

And the chapter videos can still be there too when you reach certain milestones in the battle.

I can see a career format being made out of the current campaign quite easily.

 

I agree about the unlocks just word it differently, for example with promotion you get your own ground crew who have access to field mods etc or something like that.

 

These are both excellent points and thoughts...I imagine if they'd chosen different wording (as you've suggested), the whole unlock debacle could've been entirely avoided!

 

Although they did a fantastic job on 3rd party campaigns for Clod,I believe there was little take up and for all the time and effort put is there was not much return. I don't think that they are planning any further campaigns as a direct result.   

 

Yeah, I have no idea how popular CloD is. With the AI being as funky as it is, even post TF patches, it still detracts from the SP point of CloD. Since I have to deal with a silly bandwith cap from my ISP, I've yet to patch up CloD and take the step into multiplayer again. As most of the CloD community suggests, that's where it's at these days and the best way to learn is to jump in.

[SharpeXB]

Yeah perhaps Desastersofts results with CoD should take into account that the game was less than successful. They appear to have done well with the old Sturmovik titles. Or at least well enough to have kept at it.

[SharpeXB]

PS the reason a third party developer doesn't profit so much from making these campaigns is they they don't share (I assume) in profits from selling the game itself. In fact they probably pay royalties if they're a commercial vendor.

But such extra content is obviously a boon the sales of the game. So if the developer themselves creates the content, the "campaign making" department might show a loss or just break even but the company as a whole will have more sales. The developer needs to look at the whole picture.

How well would RoF be selling if it did not have the Career Mode that it has? Probably not as well. Recognize that 99.9999% of the players are SP, virtually nobody plays flight sims online. and ask what will they actually do with the game if there's no Career Mode? Quick Missions? That's not a very appealing way to entice them to buy more planes from the RoF store. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts in this case. Rise of Flight has been successful for 6 years now. The Career Mode is certainly a big part of that.

Edited May 28, 2015 by SharpeXB

[Letka_13/Arrow_]

PS the reason a third party developer doesn't profit so much from making these campaigns is they they don't share (I assume) in profits from selling the game itself. In fact they probably pay royalties if they're a commercial vendor.

But such extra content is obviously a boon the sales of the game. So if the developer themselves creates the content, the "campaign making" department might show a loss or just break even but the company as a whole will have more sales. The developer needs to look at the whole picture.

How well would RoF be selling if it did not have the Career Mode that it has? Probably not as well. Recognize that 99.9999% of the players are SP, virtually nobody plays flight sims online. and ask what will they actually do with the game if there's no Career Mode? Quick Missions? That's not a very appealing way to entice them to buy more planes from the RoF store. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts in this case. Rise of Flight has been successful for 6 years now. The Career Mode is certainly a big part of that.

I agree, I have also bought ROF, because of the beta career and I've bought BOS also because I thought there will be something like that added somewhere down the road. However, I haven't played the beta career in ROF yet, but will do in future, if ROF hadn't such campaign I probably would not have bought a lot of planes for it. In 777 statistics however, I am one of those that haven't played the career so it seems worthless, but in reality they sold the ROF aircraft and even BOS because of the career. In my case the beta career has generated two sales for them.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Rudolph

[[KWN]T-oddball]

Although they did a fantastic job on 3rd party campaigns for Clod,I believe there was little take up and for all the time and effort put is there was not much return. I don't think that they are planning any further campaigns as a direct result.   

 

I contacted Desastersoft and this is the response I got.

 

 

777 Studios is on the Point, Players should do it by their self’s. Desastersoft style Campaigns are not needed, they say. Community will make it.

We offered in the beginning our knowledge, but they did no more answer after 2 Mails.

 

Sorry, there will not be stuff of us for it in the near future.

[Jade_Monkey]

Let me start by saying I am not a great coder or have the skills to do this.

 

I ask that the devs can post the all the required source code and also take the time to write a brief that contains a list of things/tasks that need 2 be completed to make such a conversion giving reference to the devs understanding of the problems based on Pat's insight that he has given.

 

The brief should give a list of the general tasks needed in a consise but detailed as much as time allows manner.

 

This way the task could be broken down and distributed through the community so not one person has to take on the entire task. Also will allow people that have knowledge in language a and not b or c ... To be able to contribute or solve a particular problem with out having to have the skills to solve the whole thing.

 

I think this "crowd knowlege" aproach could be highly beneficial and may be the only possible alternative

 

 

I think that's a really good idea actually.

 

The devs should meet the community half way. If they don't want to take all the work, I understand it.

However, there is nobody more qualified than the devs to give the community some guidance on how to achieve this goal.

 

It wouldn't take very long for them to break down the project into some broad tasks and give us some suggestions on how to approach it.

 

I'm sure once that step has been taken, more people will feel confident that they can complete at least some tasks.

It would take little effort from the devs part but it would give this project a lot of momentum making it look less daunting for many who dont want the burden or dont have the skills to create the entire campaign.

[Jason_Williams]

I think that's a really good idea actually.

 

The devs should meet the community half way. If they don't want to take all the work, I understand it.

However, there is nobody more qualified than the devs to give the community some guidance on how to achieve this goal.

 

It wouldn't take very long for them to break down the project into some broad tasks and give us some suggestions on how to approach it.

 

I'm sure once that step has been taken, more people will feel confident that they can complete at least some tasks.

It would take little effort from the devs part but it would give this project a lot of momentum making it look less daunting for many who dont want the burden or dont have the skills to create the entire campaign.

 

I'm sorry but you guys aren't getting it. The "devs" as you put it, meaning the Moscow office will never do anything like this. The code Pat wrote has nothing in common with our game or GUI code. Pat simply writes mission files using his code and the missions get inserted into a folder in the game. His GUI provides the story telling, not ours. There is nothing for the team to show anyone or meet anyone half way. All the necessary technology is in our mission files and Pat's source code. not BOS. PWCG a standalone app, not something that can or should be done in cooperation with the development team.

 

The only person in the company interested in doing this is me so please don't push for Moscow to be involved. I'm all you got.

 

You need one programmer with the skills like Pat who understands our mission tech. Historical info about units, medals, ranks and order of battle that can come from interested helpers in the community. That's it. No involvement from the team needed.

 

Jason

[Original_Uwe]

Jason I'm very grateful for what your doing, and have consistently done for the SP crowd.

I have to wonder though why is it a one man show? Are they in moskau really so oblivious or do they simply go with the "we have your money we dont care about you anymore" style of capitalism?

I personally would be happy with the B career from RoF, I think it does an even better job of story telling than the PWCG.

[LLv24_Zami]

Thanks Jason for trying to solve this biggest shortcoming of otherwise good product! It is very much appreciated. Hope you succeed, it is decisive to many of us

[Juri_JS]

Jason, have you and the guys in Moscow ever thought about giving us mission builders the opportunity to create our own campaigns from missions build in FMB? I know that many people prefer dynamic campaigns, but user-made static campaigns, like those we know from Il-2 1946 and CloD, could at least partially improve the situation for people that are unhappy with the default BoS campaign.

This would require:
1. A way to combine missions done in FMB into campaigns.
2. A GUI for a 3rd party campaign menue.
3. A statistic function based on the data from the mission log files, that tracks the players stats in individual campaigns.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Juri_JS

[Urra]

I'm sorry but you guys aren't getting it. The "devs" as you put it, meaning the Moscow office will never do anything like this. The code Pat wrote has nothing in common with our game or GUI code. Pat simply writes mission files using his code and the missions get inserted into a folder in the game. His GUI provides the story telling, not ours. There is nothing for the team to show anyone or meet anyone half way. All the necessary technology is in our mission files and Pat's source code. not BOS. PWCG a standalone app, not something that can or should be done in cooperation with the development team.

 

The only person in the company interested in doing this is me so please don't push for Moscow to be involved. I'm all you got.

 

You need one programmer with the skills like Pat who understands our mission tech. Historical info about units, medals, ranks and order of battle that can come from interested helpers in the community. That's it. No involvement from the team needed.

 

Jason

I'm sure I'm oversimplifying, but it sounds like someone similar to Zeus and his helpers pulling off a new map but with a slightly different skill set.

[SharpeXB]

Something as complex as a campaign generator would be nice but it isn't essential. Perhaps it's possible to just add the ability for the Mission Editor to string together canpaigns and track stats, add pilot names etc. that's basically what Desastersoft did. Theirs isn't a generator, it's a campaign set of missions with career stats and awards. A "Career Campaign". That's not as complex as a full blown generator and maybe more suited to

depicting a single battle and specific units.

If the ME had this ability it would open up new possibilities.

Just give the community the tools within the ME to create this "career" style of campaign.

Edited May 29, 2015 by SharpeXB

[Jason_Williams]

Jason, have you and the guys in Moscow ever thought about giving us mission builders the opportunity to create our own campaigns from missions build in FMB? I know that many people prefer dynamic campaigns, but user-made static campaigns, like those we know from Il-2 1946 and CloD, could at least partially improve the situation for people that are unhappy with the default BoS campaign.

 

This would require:

1. A way to combine missions done in FMB into campaigns.

2. A GUI for a 3rd party campaign menue.

3. A statistic function based on the data from the mission log files, that tracks the players stats in individual campaigns.

 

Moscow office is not interested in this idea. This idea can be done in an outside app as well.

 

Jason

Something as complex as a campaign generator would be nice but it isn't essential. Perhaps it's possible to just add the ability for the Mission Editor to string together canpaigns and track stats, add pilot names etc. that's basically what Desastersoft did. Theirs isn't a generator, it's a campaign set of missions with career stats and awards. A "Career Campaign". That's not as complex as a full blown generator and maybe more suited to

depicting a single battle and specific units.

If the ME had this ability it would open up new possibilities.

Just give the community the tools within the ME to create this "career" style of campaign.

 

This is just a framework you are talking about. Can be built outside of the game. You just need the game to run the mission.

 

Jason

[SharpeXB]

This is just a framework you are talking about. Can be built outside of the game. You just need the game to run the mission.

So somebody in the community just needs to create a "Campaign Maker" app. Not a full random mission generator like PWCG or RoF which is much more complex. Just a tool that anyone can use to string missions together along with stats and progress etc. That seems like the first step. I could imagine Veterans missions strung together like that into a "Career" That's more achievable than trying to generate random missions for the entire map. Pat's and RoF are so much more complex because they cover years of action and dozens of squadrons. A "Career Campaign" for this single battle doesn't need to be that complex. Something as simple as above would still be really appealing.

Edited May 29, 2015 by SharpeXB

[3instein]

Maybe Moscow could take a couple of hours and explain what is needed, at least then folk wouldn't be groping around blindly, they are, after all the ones that know the code the best, surely?.

 

If they also broke it down (what is needed) into small chunks so more folk could get involved=better chance it would get done.

 

Saying that, they probably are not interested in doing this either.

 

Mick.

[Juri_JS]

Moscow office is not interested in this idea. This idea can be done in an outside app as well.

I am really having problems to understand Loft's thoughts.

 

In Il-2 1946 user-made campaigns were by far the most popular game mode, which can be seen when you look at the download numbers for Il-2 campaigns at Mission4Today, some of them have more than 10.000 downloads. The amount of work to add such an option inside the game would be relatively low, compared to other BoS/BoM features.

 

To be honest, what I read in this thread makes me pessimistic about the future of BoS/BoM. In my opinion 3rd party apps are no adequate replacement for missing content inside the game.