Re-Clod in 10 years?

[sturmkraehe]

Since 777 studios owns the Clod-engine afaik: Is there a decent chance that in the future they might take the existing Clod engine and build a new flight sim on it after-BoS?

 

Imho Clod was years ahead of its ideal time - in terms of development status and hardware capabilities. The latter has already changed and newer hardware will become ever more capable to handle the full Clod potential.

 

I ask this question because that in terms of sensation of flying a difficult and challenging fighter airplane nothing surpasses Clod (imho of course). First time that I experienced the sensation that flying actually occupies me quite a lot - something you frequently can read in pilot's anecdotes...

Edited May 23, 2015 by sturmkraehe

[Lusekofte]

777 does not own the clod engine.

 

And TF have made cod very playable , in many ways more enjoyable than BOS. But I would like to know if the codes are available. IF so that game could be a real winner

[sturmkraehe]

If the codes are available (they are not) - it will imho be the final death blow. But this discussion has been held many times before so I won't delve into it as nothing new is going to be added from either side of the discussion.

 

And no - TF is just trying to keep somehow (with emphasis on "somehow" without critisizing their effort) Clod from drowning.

 

Clod is and will always be unfinished - whatever TF may do. Simply because they don't own the code and have too little ressources to develop the game full time with a full team that consists of professionals (that simply by doing this 100% of their work time have more experience than amateur programmers and designers and therefore can progress faster) to its full potential.

 

However, if an experienced studio is taking up the development (and why not include TF work done for it) and develop it for current or hardware available in five years it would exceed by far what Clod can do now. 

[Lusekofte]

Do not get me wrong, but using both sims, I think Cod got the most determined and loyal audience. I think Cod will be like IL 2, stubbornly keep going. I hope bos will get the same spirit

[Bearcat]

I think IL2 will still be being flown.. at least 5 years from now..  even if only offline. It is dated for sure but it is still quite a bit of fun at least for me.

[LukeFF]

777 does not own the clod engine.

 

Not totally right. 1CGS, of which 777 is a part, does. 

[1./JG42Nephris]

Am sharing Bearcats opinion.

We are still fliyng Il2 1946 in a bunch of around 10 guys weekly.

For dogfight thrills we re hoping in CLodo.

 

Am unsure what BoS is missing as 80% are fairly great. Ashamly the game is not able to pick me up, however I do not want to open another topic on that.

[Lusekofte]

Yes 1 C got the right and they gave 777 studio the right for the next generation of IL2 , not the old generation. But it seems they got the models made for intended  BOM.

There is nothing wrong with BOS as per se , it just not within the ambitions that Oleg once had. 

And that disappointed a lot of people, included me. But as I said before, this game got tremendous qualities never seen before that cannot be ignored. And I think a sturdy community actually can overcome its shortcomings and make this a really good online experience 

[LukeFF]

 

 

Yes 1 C got the right and they gave 777 studio the right for the next generation of IL2 , not the old generation.

 

Unless you are privy to information I've not heard, that's an incorrect statement. 

[JG27_Chivas]

IC owns the CLOD game engine.   TF is currently making the tools to more easily add aircraft and maps, etc so I don't see any reason that COD won't be modded for many years to come, unless some other flight sim engine becomes more popular.  The current BOS, and DCS game engines aren't good enough YET to make much dent in CODs current community.   Infact I can see the release of DCS World 2, and Team Fusions V5 stealing market share away from BOS.   I'm sure BOS will improve, but not sure by how much, and don't think that the Battle for Moscow will be as popular as TF's possible Med theater, or DCS World 2 EDGE, with late model Spits, 190's, 109's, P47's. over S. England/Normandy.

[No601_Prangster]

CloD was a bug fest, is still a bug fest and will always be buggy, nothing is going to change that. The code is obviously a complete mess as two different development teams (Luther & Loft) were unable to fix it over a year after release. The decision to give up and start afresh was the sensible thing to do. 

[Cybermat47]

IMHO they should just sell the CloD engine to Team Fusion. It would be more cost effective for them to just sell it, and make more IL2 games with the current, working engine. Plus, Team Fusion could get everything they need to fix CloD.

 

Of course, that's only if they want to do anything at all with the CloD engine.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Cybermat47

[BraveSirRobin]

IMHO they should just sell the CloD engine to Team Fusion.

 

Why would they sell CoD's code to a competitor who has done nothing but trash IL2/BoS,  That makes no sense at all.

[Cybermat47]

Why would they sell CoD's code to a competitor who has done nothing but trash IL2/BoS,  That makes no sense at all.

Because if they're going to do anything with CloD's engine (which is unlikely), the most cost-efficient thing to do with it is to sell it to someone, rather than spend a load of time and money on fixing it.

 

Also, please explain to me how Mysticpuma [Edited] buying the premium edition of IL-2 BoS counts as trashing it.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Bearcat
Speculation

[BraveSirRobin]

Because if they're going to do anything with CloD's engine (which is unlikely), the most cost-efficient thing to do with it is to sell it to someone, rather than spend a load of time and money on fixing it.

 

Also, please explain to me how Mysticpuma [Edited] buying the premium edition of IL-2 BoS counts as trashing it.

 

Who said they going to do anything with CoD's engine?  They're not doing anything with that engine.  And selling it to a competitor would be moronic.

 

What does Mysticpuma buying BoS have to do with anything?  [Edited]

Edited May 25, 2015 by Bearcat

[Cybermat47]

Who said they going to do anything with CoD's engine? They're not doing anything with that engine.

Seeing as you didn't read the OP, I'll be fair and stop replying to you

[Bearcat]

Whether CoD will still be flown in 10 years or not.. or BoS for that matter remains to be seen.. However let's try to keep this discussion civil and do not bring other folks into it who are not participating in the discussion and please keep your opinions of those folks to yourself.

[BraveSirRobin]

Seeing as you didn't read the OP, I'll be fair and stop replying to you

 

No, I read every word.  So I'll ask again.  Where did you get the idea that they're going to do anything with the CoD engine?

 

As to Bearcat, I didn't post my opinion of ATAG_Bliss, I just asked Cybermat if he knew who that was.

[Cybermat47]

Whether CoD will still be flown in 10 years or not.. or BoS for that matter remains to be seen.. However let's try to keep this discussion civil and do not being o0ther folks into it who are not participating in the discussion and please keep your opinions of those folks to yourself.

Understood

[SharpeXB]

The challenge to make CoD commercially successful would mean investing $ into fixing it at tremendous cost and then the only way to recoup that would be to sell it again as a new version to everyone who had bought it already. And the new business plan would involve a realistic price, like selling each plane individually for $30-50 like DCS does. Don't know how well that would be received. But that's what it would take. A complete do over.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

The challenge to make CoD commercially successful would mean investing $ into fixing it

 

-snip-

 

Thus, I'm not sure why people go on about how it's "competition."

[Mysticpuma]

With the Source Code anything is possible? I don't see TD charging for their updates of 1946 (and they have the SC for it) so I'm not sure why TF would have to? The thing is 1C aren't interested in licensing or selling the Source Code as far as we understand it so the current progress has to take other routes. Ultimately most of the features can be fixed, the main issue is time and motivation.

 

TF also have the luxury of doing this as a hobby and so there is no need or expectation to consider selling add-ons, we just do this for fun. Once money comes into the equation there suddenly becomes an expectation that you have to deliver something and then it changes from a hobby to a business and that's whole other kettle of fish and why put ourselves under such pressure for something we regard as fun and enjoyable?

 

So as it stands, yes the Source Code would be a benefit but without it we can still create new maps, theatres, import aircraft, fix the AI and Radio commands, update and edit effects files, change dm and FM. ....so it's not so bad at the moment...?.as I said, it's just time that is the barrier.

 

But as regards the OP.....10-years should see us in the Western Front, most likely the Pacific and a whole host of other maps, features, aircraft and shipping......but that's 10-years......so for now the new theatre should give an idea of what to expect for the future quality when v5.00 is released?

 

Oh and as for buying the Premium of BoS? I came in for the ride in Early Access and enjoyed what I saw. Certain features changed and I currently just don't have time to fly CloD and BoS so I stick with what I know. But yes, I paid my dues and supported another flight Sim, but as it stands it just isn't what I am after......but who knows what qthe future holds for this and CloD? Either way the WW2 Flight Sim genre is far from dead and while there is passion about the genre, long may they both continue

 

Cheers, MP

Edited May 25, 2015 by Mysticpuma

[LukeFF]

 

 

Infact I can see the release of DCS World 2, and Team Fusions V5 stealing market share away from BOS. 

 

You mean the same DCS World that's still waiting on EDGE to be released after how many delays now? Riiiiiight 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

You mean the same DCS World that's still waiting on EDGE to be released after how many delays now? Riiiiiight

[Chuck_Owl]

You mean the same DCS World that's still waiting on EDGE to be released after how many delays now? Riiiiiight

 

Why on earth does every goddarn thread have to turn into a "my sim is better than your sim"...

[JG4_Continuo]

Why on earth does every goddarn thread have to turn into a "my sim is better than your sim"...

 

BECAUSE MINE IS BETTER!!!!

Edited May 25, 2015 by JG4_Continuo

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Why on earth does every goddarn thread have to turn into a "my sim is better than your sim"...

It headed that way almost immediately, unfortunately. 

[Cybermat47]

Why on earth does every goddarn thread have to turn into a "my sim is better than your sim"...

 

I have no idea. 

 

And most of them don't make any sense. Pretty much all the sims released recently cover different fronts, different wars, and different centuries. IMHO they're coexisting, not competing.

[JG4_Continuo]

But my answer to the original question:

 

I don`t see a re-CloD as long as 1C/777 develops the Digital Nature engine. By releasing the Source-Code of CloD, they would allow a competitor to BoS and this does not make sense from 1C/777 point of view.

 

And if we are looking 10 years ahead, the CloD-Engine is probably a bit dated as well... even tough someone then might have the source-code, from a business point of view, it might make more sense in 10 years to develop a completely new engine... maybe with parts or elements of CloD, but not with the CloD-Engine as it is now..

 

Even tough TF has sorted out quite some bugs and TF work could be taken over by someone, that someone would have to learn that much about the Cliffs engine that he could programm a new one instead....

 

The only way I see new official life for Cliffs would be a stop in the development of BoS/Digital Nature Engine, and that would mean that BoS would be officialy dead... so you can wish for one or the other, but there is no ideal solution...

[Cybermat47]

The only way I see new official life for Cliffs would be a stop in the development of BoS/Digital Nature Engine, and that would mean that BoS would be officialy dead... so you can wish for one or the other, but there is no ideal solution...

Personally, I'm just fine with the way things are. Team Fusion and 777/1C are going brilliantly.

[Lusekofte]

CloD was a bug fest, is still a bug fest and will always be buggy, nothing is going to change that. The code is obviously a complete mess as two different development teams (Luther & Loft) were unable to fix it over a year after release. The decision to give up and start afresh was the sensible thing to do. 

Find cod bug free compared to bos myself, can you please tell me whats bugged?

I often fly bos and get kicked out, I find bos more stuttering and laggy . 

[Hoots]

Find cod bug free compared to bos myself, can you please tell me whats bugged?

I often fly bos and get kicked out, I find bos more stuttering and laggy .

 

Reasons why threads descend into "one is better than the other". There really was no need to put in a comparison to bos there. It could have been left as "find clod bug free".

[6./ZG26_Custard]

I just find far too much obsequious posting about "the other" sim on the "BoS" forum. The objective seems clear in some instances, to maintain or enhance the numbers flying in that particular sim. There is "competition" for players and no one will convince me otherwise. There are folks posting on other forums with almost sadistic relish, bemoaning berating and almost openly hoping that BoS takes a nosedive, how sad that is.

 

I use to fly both sims and enjoy them for what they are. Both are far from perfect but BoS has hooked me and I no longer bother with Clod. That doesn't mean though that I'm going to troll around forums and sit here secretly hoping for its failure. If Bos doesn't float peoples boat then I wish them well in their WWII flight sim of choice. We don't have a lot of choice out there do we?        

[Cybermat47]

I just find far too much obsequious posting about "the other" sim on the "BoS" forum. The objective seems clear in some instances, to maintain or enhance the numbers flying in that particular sim. There is "competition" for players and no one will convince me otherwise. There are folks posting on other forums with almost sadistic relish, bemoaning berating and almost openly hoping that BoS takes a nosedive, how sad that is.

 

I use to fly both sims and enjoy them for what they are. Both are far from perfect but BoS has hooked me and I no longer bother with Clod. That doesn't mean though that I'm going to troll around forums and sit here secretly hoping for its failure. If Bos doesn't float peoples boat then I wish them well in their WWII flight sim of choice. We don't have a lot of choice out there do we?

Exactly.

 

And as for the people who want players to abandon one sim and move to another, so that the servers on that one are always full... I, a singleplayer person, just find that hilarious.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Why on earth does every goddarn thread have to turn into a "my sim is better than your sim"...

 

Probably because people make posts about one sim on another sim's forum...been going on for ages CFS Vs IL2, ROF Vs CLOD and now we have it on CLOD vs BOS.

 

Common sense would dictate that people post about their favorite sim in the relevant forum  :D

[Bearcat]

 

Why on earth does every goddarn thread have to turn into a "my sim is better than your sim"...

 

Probably because people make posts about one sim on another sim's forum...been going on for ages CFS Vs IL2, ROF Vs CLOD and now we have it on CLOD vs BOS.

Common sense would dictate that people post about their favorite sim in the relevant forum  :D

 

The interesting thing with the whole CFS vs IL2 thing though was that basically.. CFS3 was not looked upon very favorably in the IL2 community .. basically because it was not very good but it did have it's many ardent supporters and still does to a degree.. Mostly everyone had fond memories of CFS 1 & 2... but you did not see a lot of pro CFS guys on the IL2 boards.. they were mostly at SoH at the time or the CFS boards of SHQ... and the pro IL2 crowd was basically at UBI or the IL2 boards of SHQ... and at SHQ there was not a lot of cross pollination either... Basically people went where they were happy and did not waste time or energy going to the other sim's boards wherever they were to trash, complain, or otherwise denigrate the other sim or it's developers or it's forum nor did they go to the other sim's forums to praise their sim of choice to any large degree. You did not get a lot of people on the IL2 boards extolling the virtues of CFS, or any of the P2P sims that were big at the time like Warbirds, Aces High or Fighter Ace.. There was some of that but it was not amywhere close to what we have with this sim and those who are fans of CoD. It just did not happen very much.. When PF was released some folks went  to the CFS2 board at SoH to let folks know that a new Pacific sim was coming out if they did not know... and and that was basically it.. No one continually went back there with screenshots and videos and multiple examples of why IL2 was so much better than CFS...

 

The current trend that we see today can be directly traced back to the 1C CoD forum for it's overall tone and for lack of a better term... passion. When I could finally run CoD I visited that forum more and based on my reception there I was inclined to look back in order to geta perspective .. and I got that perspective.. I see a lot of the same characters behaving the same way today.. perhaps some being on a different side of the fence from where they were with CoD but just as ... vocal ands some just as condescending and downright nasty. Some of the same attitudes we see now were directed at RoF as well... Looking back at some of those threads on the 1C boards is a very telling historic record of how we got where we are as far as the hostility that rears it's head and the personal nature of the rhetoric. I have seen a lot of personal stuff directed at Jason..  and it got pretty nasty towards Ilya and Oleg also and I even had someone make a comment about my wife on that board...

 

Why does this happen..? Because people make choices.. If folks focused more on what appealed to them as opposed to what does not much of this would not be happening at all.

[SharpeXB]

I hope in 2025 nobody is trying to rehash a game engine from 2010... Besides by that time we will all just have USB ports installed in the back of our skulls so we can connect to the matrix.

[AndyJWest]

I hope in 2025 nobody is trying to rehash a game engine from 2010..

 

Exactly. Is the CloD code really so 'advanced' that picking it up again many years later would be a rational choice in an environment where technological change is so rapid? I find that hard to believe.Can anyone point to other examples in software development where this has occurred?

[[KWN]T-oddball]

I doubt IL2 in any form will be here in 2025.

[SharpeXB]

Exactly. Is the CloD code really so 'advanced' that picking it up again many years later would be a rational choice in an environment where technological change is so rapid?

It's the subject of a new Dan Brown book... The DaMaddox Code. How the greatest game code ever written was lost. The mythology now is that CoD carries the secret of the greatest flight sim in all of history it only the "code" could be found!