Can't seem to keep 109 on runway during takeoff

[=CFC=Conky]

Hello all,

 

I decided to fire up the sim after a couple of months away (I'm fully patched up) and now I can't keep the 109 (F & G) on the runway during takeoff no matter what I do. I've tried advancing the throttle slowly, tapping the brakes, reviewed the instructional videos, etc, etc, but I still can't keep the bugger on the runway whereas I never had problems with that before. Yes, my controllers are working correctly and the control surfaces move when viewed externally. It happens even in no-wind conditions.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Jester]

This may be a stupid question, but since you didn't mention it: Are you making sure the tail wheel is locked?

[SpaydCBR]

Well I'm still a newbie but taking off is fairly simple. I only fly the bf 109 and when I take off I lower my flaps to 2 notches, make sure the tail wheel is locked, then I slowly increase throttle to 100% while using right rudder to counter the torque or whatever till I've gained enough speed to get off the ground. No braking or anything. Maybe you're using too much rudder, or too little or something. Also locking the tail wheel makes it much easier, but it's locked by default so I don't think that's it.

 

I guess just try slowly increasing throttle and get a feel for how much counter rudder you need as you get to 100%. There's really not much else to it.

 

You say you've never had problems before so I guess you knew all this, in which case I don't know what else to tell you haha

 

Maybe somebody with more experience has a better answer.

[BlueHeron]

I usually have to apply a bit of right wheel differential breaking when I first get rolling.  Once there's enough airflow over the rudder, I use it without any breaking.  Also, try not applying full throttle, only about 1.3 ATA or just enough to get your airspeed up.  Also be sure you're trimmed for takeoff.

[No601_Swallow]

A squadron-mate told me (Hunter, take a bow) that for the German brake systems, you can map them to the twist grip of your joystick (assuming you're not already using the twist axis for rudder control). It works wonderfully and astonishingly intuitively.

 

It's made taking off and landing in Luftw**ner aircraft ( Well, the aeroplanes are all so so wonderful to fly, I just wonder where all the **** comes from!) an absolute breeze. Rudder fully deflected and then a tiny twist of the wrist (Matron!) as you apply throttle (Matron!!) is all it takes.

 

Edited May 19, 2015 by No601_Swallow

[coconut]

Personally I like to deactivate auto-prop-pitch, set it to something low (8%), then gradually increase to full throttle.

Without doing that, leaving auto-prop-pitch on, I would have difficulties keeping control of the aircraft and often ended up having my planes at too big an angle with the direction of movement.

[SpaydCBR]

A squadron-mate told me (Hunter, take a bow) that for the German brake systems, you can map them to the twist grip of your joystick (assuming you're not already using the twist axis for rudder control). It works wonderfully and astonishingly intuitively.

 

It's made taking off and landing in Luftw**ner aircraft ( Well, the aeroplanes are all so so wonderful to fly, I just wonder where all the **** comes from!) an absolute breeze. Rudder fully deflected and then a tiny twist of the wrist (Matron!) as you apply throttle (Matron!!) is all it takes.

 

 

I tried doing this before but it didn't work too well. What happened to me was that when the stick was centered, it would apply half brakes to both pedals, then apply full to whichever side I'm twisting the stick and do a full release for the other. Can anybody confirm this? It just felt weird and I had to increase throttle quite a bit just to get moving.

 

I also use the twist axis for rudder. What do you use for rudder?

Edited May 19, 2015 by SpaydCBR

[No601_Swallow]

Personally I like to deactivate auto-prop-pitch, set it to something low (8%), then gradually increase to full throttle.

Without doing that, leaving auto-prop-pitch on, I would have difficulties keeping control of the aircraft and often ended up having my planes at too big an angle with the direction of movement.

 

Isn't it great, the different ways people come up with to solve the same problem. I also deactivate auto-prop-pitch, but, with pitch switch flipped to "up",  I wait until that clock winds right up to 12 O'Clock (or whatever the maximum is - it's been a couple of weeks!) before grinding that rudder pedal into the floor, easing the throttle up briskly, a tiny "blip" on the brakes, and then I'm there, with rudder authority, tail rising and nothing to blame except my own ineptitude...! 

[Willy__]

A squadron-mate told me (Hunter, take a bow) that for the German brake systems, you can map them to the twist grip of your joystick (assuming you're not already using the twist axis for rudder control). It works wonderfully and astonishingly intuitively.

 

You can assign both the brakes and rudder for the twist with little problem, since you only be using the brakes while on ground anyways. While airborne braking wont make a difference.    

Edited May 19, 2015 by istruba

[No601_Swallow]

I tried doing this before but it didn't work too well. What happened to me was that when the stick was centered, it would apply half brakes to both pedals, then apply full to whichever side I'm twisting the stick and do a full release for the other. Can anybody confirm this? It just felt weird and I had to increase throttle quite a bit just to get moving.

I don't know what to tell you. I don't have a dead zone on that axis or anything. I use a thrustmaster T-13000 (or whatever it's called.) Hunter's got, I think, a Saitek Cyborg.

 

The only other thing I can think of would be to check for double-mapping, etc. Maybe deleting those mappings entirely and re-doing them might help? Double checking that you're not also easing the stick forward when trying to assign axes?...

 

I think the thing that helps me (I have a second hand set of CH rudder pedals and their toe-axes had gone - I think! - so I've disabled them completely), is that the twist-grip trick gives you graduated brakes. It's not on/off. And that's also great.

You can assign both the brakes and rudder for the twist with little problem, since you only be using the brakes while on ground anyways. While airborne braking wont make a difference.    

 

Good to know! 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I personally wouldnt want brakes and rudder assigned to the same axis but I do have peddles so don't need to worry about it.

 

Once lined up on the runway just whack the throttle to full sometimes I give the brake a tap to keep it pointed the right way and then once you are getting some speed up switch to using the rudders.

 

I find taking off in the 109 very easy and I do wonder if you haven't locked your tail wheel as already mentioned?

[Willy__]

Emil I also have pedals for the rudder control. And I tell you: they help a lot with taxing/take off/landing, specially when there's a strong crosswind. But oh boy, I dont even remember the time I had no pedals, I think I struggled a little back then. One thing for sure, I cant fly anymore without rudder pedals (and TrackIR!). 

 

Maybe the pedals are the reason we find it easy to taxi, take-off and land... 

[No601_Swallow]

... But oh boy, I dont even remember the time I had no pedals, I think I struggled a little back then. One thing for sure, I cant fly anymore without rudder pedals (and TrackIR!). 

 

Maybe the pedals are the reason we find it easy to taxi, take-off and land... 

 

Will we (crinkle-of-face and long-of-tooth) in 10 years' time be telling each other, "I don't remember a time when I had no VR-Rift-Tube-Gizmo-Googles... How did we think that screen was 'seeing'? How did we ever fly inverted under bridges?..."

 

But I take the point about the pedals. 

 

That's one thing about our hobby. I do feel a bit like a pusher. And it keeps me up at night. ...Get 'em hooked on a basic gaming set-up... suggest a joystick... a quadrant (or two), a head-tracking device... OK, the loan-sharks are calling, but we're not done yet. Pedals! A bigger monitor! Your graphics card is a WHAT?... He's lost his family, his kids... but he's doing a lot more overtime, so that's a plus!...And it continues:... a "proper" hotas, a better CPU - hell, get a new computer, you cheapskate... and it'll never stop....

 

I confess!..... 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Please check one thing that your rudders are mapped the correct way around and not the reverse which happened to someone I know.

[=CFC=Conky]

Hello all,

 

Thanks for the replies. The first thing I checked was whether or not the tailwheel is locked  , and yes it is. I know the workaround for taxiing was to disable auto-pitch but I'd rather not do this and since it never happened in earlier versions of the sim I thought I might have missed something. My brakes are mapped to my pedals so I get differential braking that way and it does seem to work.

 

In the meantime I'll keep futzing around with it.

 

Good hunting,

Conky

[JimTM]

Conky,

 

Try the following:

 

1. Lock your tailwheel (which you did).

2. Pull the stick right back.

3. Advance the throttle slowly until the plane is rolling straight at low speed.

    Use a bit of differential brake to keep it straight.

4. Advance the throttle smoothly to maximum

    Count about 4 or 5 seconds from low throttle to maximum.

5. When the speed passes about 100 kph, push the stick forward smoothly to just aft of neutral.

6. Use rudder to keep the plane straight.

    The rudder will be much more effective now.

    The plane should fly itself into the air.

7. Shoot down Russian planes.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Jim

[SharpeXB]

Don't use brakes during takeoff. Hold the tail down with the stick full back until you pick up speed for the rudder to be effective. If you read the manuals for these planes, they'll say to smoothly and quickly advance the throttle. Don't slam it forward but you want to be at full power before letting the tail up. If you're still adding power at that point it's harder to keep straight. The key is all in keeping straight using the rudder. Like riding a bicycle. With enough practice it will become quite easy.

[=CFC=Conky]

Hello all,

 

It seems to be working a little better now, I now wait for the rpm to dial up a bit before advancing the throttle (Normal Mode - engine running on mission start).

 

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

 

Conky

[Uriah]

I thought the whole point was to get off the runway during takeoff.

[JimTM]

I thought the whole point was to get off the runway during takeoff.

OK, who let the peanut gallery in? :-)

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Not really sure what to say here. Its not that hard for both 109s. Just right rudder and maybe a bit of breaks. Ps g2 is defo harder to taxi

[Weegie]

Just on the brakes to one axis trick, it was posted up in the early access forum so I do not take credit for it, but going to try and clarify

 

I've got my brakes set to the mouse X axis on the throttle, so in the Thrustmaster, or whatever software your using for assigning axis you disable the first 50% of movement (i.e. 50% deadband) you cannot do this in BoS (as far as I know which is a shame).

 

 

Then in BoS assign the same axis to both wheelbrakes & invert one axis

 

 

This then results in the following; the last 2 are with the controller moved to extreme left or right as appropriate, the first 2 with the controller centered, showing left and right

 

 

 

 

 

Dunno if that helps or makes it any clearer

Edited May 20, 2015 by Monument

[JimTM]

I think that the key is to keep the tail down (stick right back) until the rudder has enough airflow to do it's thing effectively. Timing is important though. You don't want to bring the tail up too soon because the rudder won't have enough bite. You don't want to bring it up too late (on some planes anyway) since the plane may become airborne very close to the stall speed and flop to one side or the other. Around 100 kph is a good speed to bring the tail up in the 109.

Edited May 20, 2015 by JimTM

[-TBC-AeroAce]

To op just make sure u have full right rudder before u start to apply throttle then slowly release the rudder to keep straight. It isn't that hard but will depend on ur rudder hardware's sensitivity

[No42_Baili]

Open your canopy and put your head out then you can see the runway in front