Niche Market Thoughts

[BM357_TinMan]

I could be way wrong here but, it has been said, over and over and over again how this is a "niche" market. I don't disagree with this in the least. It IS a niche market. However, it is my perception that certain attitudes actually exacerbate this "problem". And it IS a problem. I would argue that none of the people here want to see high quality combat wwII flight sims to go the way of the dinosaur.

 

Thing is, the developers and we, as a community, MUST recognize that there ARE "casual" players that will buy and play this game, at least for a while, if they are given incentive.

 

You need to allow for these "air quakers" that are so disdained. We already have a pretty good "simulator" for those of us that want that (of which I am one). But, when you don't have the option to "dumb" down flight models and turn off cockpit mode (to name a couple of options), you turn off a larger target audience.

 

In short, in my opinion, it makes no sense not to allow for this type of game play. I mean, we hard core'ers are getting what we want, but we are too few and too divided between the other decent sims. Give the option to dumb down physics, turn off cockpit, throw up a couple of "airquake" servers. You will attract more players. Even if they don't stick, you still got their money. But I say this, some WILL stick, some WILL become hard core'ers

[Finkeren]

I would argue that none of the people here want to see high quality combat wwII flight sims to go the way of the dinosaur.

 

That's an interesting analogy, considering that dinosaurs didn't become extinct but are now arguably as succesful as ever - Birds are a subset of the dinosaur clade and are almost as wide spread and diverse as mammals.

 

The thing is: The dinosaurs survived the K/T extinction through adaptation. They changed to fit into new environments (as flight sims must do to survive today) but they did so by changing and enhancing what was already working - Theropod dinosaurs had feathers and wings long before they became birds. Likewise flight sim developers have to identify the aspects of the genre that work and try to build from there.

 

We can have a long discussion about, whether or not the devs have taken the right course. I would argue, that as a sim, BoS strikes a great compromise between accessability, realism and action, but as a game it is lacking (especially SP) and it was a mistake to throw the concept of a historical career mode aside, as if the dinosaurs had thrown away their feathers.

[Finkeren]

As to your general point: I'm not sure I would've agreed half a year ago.

 

But seeing how BoS has so far failed to attract a significant number of online players (we seem to be doing only slightly better than ClOD) I can definately see the reason in your argument.

 

I think the most important difficulty settings that will need to be selectable to open up the sim more will be:

 

• Allow padlocking air and ground targets
• Create a 'Wonder Woman' view (no cockpit)
• Simplified flight physics (at least concerning spins)
• Collisions off (ground and objects)
• Make mouse control posible like in RoF (where it's not an advantage over a joystick but at least usable)

These are all settings I would never fly with, but I agree it'll make it posible to attract (and later convert) a lot of enthusiastic WT players who look for more realism/challenge.

[216th_Jordan]

With Wonderwoman view alone you would get many people started and it would not be that hard to implement.

[361fundahl]

I think if it was just priced right with ALL PLANES INCLUDED and had co-op/easy self hosting/multiplayer quick match (find populated server with decent ping) then it would attract a lot more....

 

Maybe even a demo?

 

A way to fly without a joystick is also definitely needed... I bought a copy for my brother but he cant get his Xbox controller to work right and refuses to go buy a damn joystick....

 

My other friend I bought a copy for bought a joystick but gets frustrated and quits after flying for hours and not scoring a kill...

[Bearcat]

I think if it was just priced right with ALL PLANES INCLUDED and had co-op/easy self hosting/multiplayer quick match (find populated server with decent ping) then it would attract a lot more....

 

Maybe even a demo?

 

A way to fly without a joystick is also definitely needed... I bought a copy for my brother but he cant get his Xbox controller to work right and refuses to go buy a damn joystick....

My other friend I bought a copy for bought a joystick but gets frustrated and quits after flying for hours and not scoring a kill...

 

 

All the planes are included. The main things this sim needs is a decent coop mode , being able to set up a server quickly and easily from your PC and a more user friendly mission editor/builder, If it had all that many other things would follow.. There are some great SP campaigns out for IL2 because the mission editor was much easier to use.. The demo idea is a good one.. I hope that eventually they will offer up a F2P version of this sim with the small Lapino map and a Lagg and an F-4 as free planes.. Maybe at the same time reduce the price to the Standard only price and add the La-5 & FW to the standard.. say after the 3rd installment is out..

 

Being able to fly with a keyboard is possible now.. you just can't fly and fight with a keyboard.. and IMO you shouldn't be able to... WT does a decent enough job of catering tho that market.. There neeeds to be a developer supported dedicated WWII sim on the market that can appeal to the hard core to mid core crowd...

[SharpeXB]

Beginners can get their start on games like War Thunder which hopefully gets them interested in a more realistic sim.

Some of these features mentioned are already in BoS, simplified physics and 3rd person modes etc.

Personally I don't see how a "no cockpit" view is an appeal to beginners since it makes many aspects of a real sim more difficult.

[coconut]

Here is a capture from the advanced settings window of the dedicated server. If you check most of the options in the Mission section, you can get quite close to the casual gameplay that has been described. I haven't tried stepping out of the usual normal/expert/no gps settings, and it's possible all these settings are not implemented yet, but even then it shows the devs are intending to capture the casual crowd.

[361fundahl]

A week long demo of the yak that you could use online might be a great way to get newcomers. And I don't mean simplyfy the physics at all.... Maybe just tweak the keyboard response curves and put a Xbox controller profile.

I'm always against simplifying physics. Instead, you could implement a stability control of sorts that would keep you in the safe flight envelope but obviously would restrict you from really pushing your aircraft in a dogfight/generating intended stalls

[Bearcat]

I think that a free two plane version.. say a Lagg and a F4 on the Lapino map would do wonders.

[SharpeXB]

Rise of Flight has a free to play version.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I started a thread along similar lines and homologating the game modes. The "easy" mode corresponds pretty closely to your "airquake" mode and accounts for entry level hardware/experience. I'm with SharpeXB, though, I don't see a need for Wonder Woman view. But that's just me.

 

Thread is here:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/16368-game-modes/page-2?do=findComment&comment=260805

 

Also had a thread for F2P but I'm not gonna bore you with it or look it up. I'm sure there are several already.

Edited May 23, 2015 by HerrMurf

[SharpeXB]

Speaking of newcomers, last weekend I had some of my "noob" friends try the flight sims on my PC. By "noobs" I mean one guy was an engineer who works for NASA and the other guy is an officer in the US Army and a paratrooper. So both have skills of a sort. Boy they were hopeless :-D. Ok just fly straight and level, no dog fighting or anything... Crash! Pull up you're headed at the ground... Crash!

The NASA Space Shuttle guy at least understood all the flight instruments and had some FSX experience. It made me realize how daunting these things are even if I can remember when I was a noob.

But regarding the "virtual cockpit" mode. At no time did either of these guys ask if they could switch off the cockpit to make things easier. IMO that only makes the game harder because the player has no reference to anything. Unfortunately for beginners the thing that helps most is a good set of actual flight controls, pedals especially and a TrackIR. Most new players are without those and not likely to invest that early on but those really help. For myself the TrackIR was literally the first thing I bought when I first opened up a flight sim and learned what it was.

Edited May 23, 2015 by SharpeXB