BoS release in 2014? Then they MUST include lots of legacy CoD and BoM coding, imho...

[Freycinet]

Supposing the 777 Studios team has been working fully on RoF till now, which definitely seems to be the case. Supposing the 2014 date is one to be taken more serious than the many CoD dates over the years... - Then I just cannot see how they would be able to avoid lots of coding and models from CoD/BoM getting into the new product.

 

3D models first and foremost. Lots of German hardware, including the 109F versions which it seems they had ready for BoM already. Also all the Soviet hardware (planes in particular) and Russian ground objects we have seen in BoM screenshots. I guess all the models also exist in a CAD program format (Studio Max) so maybe they'll just use those and integrate them in the Digital Nature engine.

 

But what about the huge work done regarding the dynamic model, flight model and damage model of German planes already in-game in CoD? If they want 109s, 110s, Ju-88s, He-111s are they really going to make them from scratch? I can't see that happening in one and a half, max. two years... But if they then integrate the CoD planes fully are they then going to make the rest of the planes to another standard? That would look weird...

 

What I'm saying, in general, is that I cannot really see a groundbreaking new sim coming out in 2014 being done from scratch. There just isn't time for that. So, one way or another I think we will see a lot of CoD/BoM legacy stuff in BoS.

 

Here's a little slideshow of stuff already made for Battle for Moscow:

http://airwarfare.com/sow/index.php/63-gamekeeper/photos/photo?albumid=2#photoid=2

Edited December 14, 2012 by Freycinet

[DD_bongodriver]

Coding no, models maybe, and it's not being made from scratch, it'a revamp of an existing engine.

[Catseye]

snip . . .

What I'm saying, in general, is that I cannot really see a groundbreaking new sim coming out in 2014 being done from scratch. There just isn't time for that. So, one way or another I think we will see a lot of CoD/BoM legacy stuff in BoS.

Good point!

 

I have to agree with this. I expect the date of early 2014 is not released without have tracked the events necessary to create BOS in an initial release version merging portions that can be merged. I think Jason said in a previous thread something to the affect of: Taking the best they can from existing data and creating/updating the existing engine to accept that data along with improvements that will fit into their model and mission statement. (Paraphrase - hope I got it right.)

 

I fly COD online and I've just downloaded and flew a bit on ROF. I have no way the experience that others have with ROF and my initial impression was of course to compare one with the other. This is only natural. The comparison I made would not really be a fair one at this point as I have not fully immersed myself into ROF to the same degree as I have in CLOD. Some differences were quite evident and I will not make comment on them at this time as there is much to absorb and the final result, as I understand it, will be a brand new SIM. (Not COD and not ROF). So commenting would be pointless at this stage.

 

To do this even without the published time-frame, indicates to me, as you point out, that legacy data has been preliminarily evaluated and is readily available for merging.

 

This will be an interesting development to watch.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Catseye

[Freycinet]

Bongo, you speak very affirmatively but it would be nice if you would substantiate your points and not just give us your conclusions, which are based on... what exactly?

[stiboo]

I was thinking the game would be out next year?...No?      2014 yikes!

 

Are we going to have to wait another 2 years for an old game engine sim?

 

Can they drag RoF out for another 2 years?

 

I guess we are stuck with COD as it is for the foreseable future for WW2 sim...maybe the modders will now get hold of COD?... IL2 had a whole new lease of life once the Devs had finished with it and modders took over...maybe the new IL2's biggest threat will be a Modded Cod?  can we call it ModCod from now on ?!!! 

 

Might start a new thread for ModCod !

 

Anyway I still hope BoS turns out good

 

.

[=RvE=Windmills]

They are probably going to focus on BoS content first. Once they are done with that they may switch to converting the clod stuff.

 

No reason to split resources and compromise their main product.

[dburne]

I was thinking the game would be out next year?...No?      2014 yikes!

 

Are we going to have to wait another 2 years for an old game engine sim?

 

 

 

.

 

Actually the announcement states a release in early 2014, considering 2012 is almost over, that could be just a little over a year away.

[=69.GIAP=YSTREB]

IMHO they will just release BoS with bf 109f and yak1 in 2014. then all the rest will be added soon with paid addons. So 1 year is not that short 

[Skoshi_Tiger]

Does anyone know what packages the 3D modellers are using for the Digital Nature engine? I think that 3D Studio Max was used for COD (though I could be wrong here so anyone with more intel please correct me!)

 

 If the packages were similar then I would think it would just be a process of optimising the 3D models.  ???

[BlitzPig_EL]

IMHO they will just release BoS with bf 109f and yak1 in 2014. then all the rest will be added soon with paid addons. So 1 year is not that short 

 

If the initial release of BoS only has two flyable aircraft it is doomed from the start.  It MUST have the IL2 and Stuka at a bare minimum, in addition to the single seat fighters mentioned.  If no ground attack aircraft are immediately available, the entire premise of the theatre is totally invalid.

[AndyJWest]

If the initial release of BoS only has two flyable aircraft it is doomed from the start.  It MUST have the IL2 and Stuka at a bare minimum, in addition to the single seat fighters mentioned.  If no ground attack aircraft are immediately available, the entire premise of the theatre is totally invalid.

 

Have to agree. Two flyable aircraft just wouldn't be credible. The Il-2 just has to be there, for a start. Stuka I'm not 100% sure though - Bf 110 might be a better choice?. Anyway, it is early days. I'd like to see a Ju 88 and a Pe-2 and at least two different fighters for the VVS. A lot probably depends on how easy it is to import CloD modells into the RoF-upgrade engine, and how much work the flight physics needs to work properly with WW2-era aircraft. Time will tell.

[Bearcat]

If the initial release of BoS only has two flyable aircraft it is doomed from the start.  It MUST have the IL2 and Stuka at a bare minimum, in addition to the single seat fighters mentioned.  If no ground attack aircraft are immediately available, the entire premise of the theatre is totally invalid.

 

I agree.. but I think that Jason and the folks from 1C know this as well.. If I am not mistaken while this is a team venture 777 is running the show.. Perhaps Jason can pop in here and clarify that.. but if that is the case then I think we will be in good hands and what happens after that will depend on us.

[LizLemon]

Have to agree. Two flyable aircraft just wouldn't be credible. The Il-2 just has to be there, for a start. Stuka I'm not 100% sure though - Bf 110 might be a better choice?. Anyway, it is early days. I'd like to see a Ju 88 and a Pe-2 and at least two different fighters for the VVS. A lot probably depends on how easy it is to import CloD modells into the RoF-upgrade engine, and how much work the flight physics needs to work properly with WW2-era aircraft. Time will tell.

 

I'd be very surprised if it only launched with two ac flyable. They have said that they are using a different business model from ROF.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

I think BOS will be a opening shot into the new line of sims, i expect a little slippage in the release date but around the end of Q2 214 seems realistic to me.

 

I think a 4 plane release pack would be more realistic and expected...

 

109F4 or F2

Stuka

I16 or early Yak

Il2

 

What im really looking forward to is the sim after BOS.

 

The Med anyone?

Edited December 14, 2012 by Furbs

[II./JG27_Rich]

I think BOS will be a opening shot into the new line of sims, i expect a little slippage in the release date but around the end of Q2 214 seems realistic to me.

 

I think a 4 plane release pack would be more realistic and expected...

 

109F4 or F2

Stuka

I16 or early Yak

Il2

 

What im really looking forward to is the sim after BOS.

 

The Med anyone?

As you can see by my avatar I am a Mediterranean - North Africa  man first.

[Sim]

I think a 4 plane release pack would be more realistic and expected...

 

109F4 or F2

Stuka

I16 or early Yak

Il2

 

I think this is pretty much it. They have the time to create a new map and 4 flyable until then, very unlikely to ask for something more. The rest of the planes will come out after release as paid addons.

[Jester]

IMHO they will just release BoS with bf 109f and yak1 in 2014. then all the rest will be added soon with paid addons. So 1 year is not that short 

 

 

Or you could hold on a little while until more definite information is forthcoming from the dev team before looking at potential "worst case scenario" situations........ Just a thought.

[Freycinet]

So, flyable Stuka in the release, some of you seem to believe...

Well, we already have a gorgeous Stuka in CoD.
- Beautiful model of the plane, with skins and wear and tear layers
- a very good flight model
- excellent engine modelling
- Superb cockpit and gunner station, with damage models,
- excellent damage model, both visual and functional

- all moving parts working as they should,

- LoDs

- a good complement of well-working bombs,etc, etc.
etc, etc...

With release a little over a year away, it seems very strange to me if they'd just start from scratch and not use all of this.

- Maybe we'll get a sim with basically CoD models (seeing that a lot of the work is already done) "shoe-horned" into the Digital Nature engine?
 

Edited December 14, 2012 by Freycinet

[Jester]

Well I'd hope it's more than hyst shoe-hroned in!

 

Joking aside,you have an excellent point there though, Freycinet. If they can transfer the models to the new engine maybe the He-111 and Ju-88 will get transfered as well. I guess we'll find out when the time is right.

[No601_Prangster]

Well I don't think it will be too much of a stretch to complete in a year and a bit. This year 777 will have released (by Christmas hopefully) six aircraft and a map plus other improvements. I'd imagine that they would be aiming to have 4-6 aircraft at launch. 777 use 3DS Max version 8 so the existing aircraft and textures can be used as a base but I'd think from experience that they'd need to redo about 50 to 75% of the modelling work to get them into the new engine, probably less for ground objects. The flight models will of course need to be redone for the new engine but they should at least have all the reference material. The current modelling team for RoF used to work for Luther on the Korean expansion and then on CLoD.

 

I would expect that the game will feel and look a lot like RoF and personally I think that will be good thing.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Prangster

[AdlerAngriff]

Well, if they use the ROF model I don't think that a 4 plane game is all that impossible. If ROF players will remember ROF didn't have a career system in the begining, this came out later. Personally I think that COD is wonderful. It just has some kinks that weren't fixed due to many circumstances.

I have no problem seeing the He 111 or BF 109 from COD fly over Stalingrad. I believe that Clod is very flyable and playable with a MONSTER rig and desastersoft campaigns.

I don't think they really have to start every little thing from scratch.

I am super excited for more news from the devs. But this won't happen before the holidays. I mean they just merged

 

Then again, it's not so bad to wait even two years if the product is right. You can spend the time getting your skills up to speed. As for me I am using this time to overhaul my own engine :D

[Freycinet]

I also seem to remember a screenshot showing the Stalingrad area, at least lots of waterways that looked like it... - Anybody know what I am talking about? 

[=69.GIAP=Shvak]

They will most probabily release a core planeset enabling all players be they bomber or fighter jocks the ability to get in on the action.

They will then add in the playable exotics, most likely lend lease planes as paid add ons. And lets say the 109e range with F4 variants as paid for...

I am like everyone just guessing here. Initially when RoF was released it only had a few planes. The community literally paid for the rest. In the current flightsim market this seems like the only way to go. Look at DSC world as a prime very expensive example of the pay to fly model with the core DSC World being free. RoF on the other hand offers various packages, the base Iron Cross edition with I think nine flyable planes can be purchased for $9 and you are up and running. You then add what you want. I fly fighters and therefore rarely by bomber and two seater variants of RoF planes. Unless my squadron ask that we have another mission specific plane. I own plus minus 30 or so RoF planes.

 

I am hoping the engine management that is in Clod makes it into BoS. I believe somethings in Clod are ahead of anything in the current RoF. But then I like fiddling with mixtures and coaxing a G.50 to 6000m. Most casual simmers may not.

I do not think the RoF engine/code is capable of rendering the complex ground war without a major overhaul. But that code may already exist and be importable into the new product.

That said I will be buy BoS no matter what.

I still believe however with time and patience the Clod engine is the better of the two and I hope all that hard work will not be thrown away.

[Freycinet]

Here's a little slideshow of stuff already made for Battle for Moscow:

 

http://airwarfare.com/sow/index.php/63-gamekeeper/photos/photo?albumid=2#photoid=2

Edited December 14, 2012 by Freycinet

[W1ndy]

Do 1C Game Studios own  CloD  ?  I mean can they use it at all ?

[AdlerAngriff]

Here's a little slideshow of stuff already made for Battle for Moscow:

 

http://airwarfare.com/sow/index.php/63-gamekeeper/photos/photo?albumid=2#photoid=2

 

This is an awesome compilation. Thanks very much

[zxwings]

Freycinet I think you have been most accurate with the word "cartoonish" for a discription of how ROF looks, here:

 

... I also like the RoF engine very much, and there is no doubt that it is a more flexible and trouble-free programming environment, but I cannot help feeling that the end result is slightly more cartoonish and a little bit less gritty and realistic.

(from #1 of this thread http://forum.il2sturmovik.net/index.php?showtopic=31)

 

Strangely, that thread was locked.

 

As a sim ROF is, of course, great. But I have the hope that BoS, with the same engine, will have far better graphics than ROF.

 

[Freycinet]

Oh but of course it will. No doubt about that, not with the team they have collected. Those Russian programmers are really top-notch... All the flight sims worth talking about in the last ten yars have come out of the greater Moscow area... Which is quite something.

[Zorin]

Jason said that the game will start, chronologically speaking, with Operation Uranus, so November 1942. That means, La5, Yak9, etc right from the start.

 

Besides, I am not sure how they want to provide convincing single player missions with just 10 different plane types.

 

These 16 would be minimum in my opinion. Any less at release makes the game not worth buying, IMO.

 

Bf109E-7

Bf109F-2/4

Bf110E/F/G

Fw190A

Ju87B/R/D

Ju88A-4

He111H-6

Ju52

 

I-16

Yak-1

Yak-9

La-5

LaGG3

IL-2

Pe-2

Li-2

Edited December 14, 2012 by Zorin

[BlitzPig_EL]

I agree that would be a proper release Zorin, but that is not how 777 has worked in the past.

 

Also I wonder how many people they have building all the 3D models for vehicles of all kinds for both sides?

 

I don't see this release happening in 2014 at all actually.

[Zorin]

I agree that would be a proper release Zorin, but that is not how 777 has worked in the past.

 

Also I wonder how many people they have building all the 3D models for vehicles of all kinds for both sides?

 

I don't see this release happening in 2014 at all actually.

 

Agreed. Which makes this entire endeavour even more bewildering, as by 2015/16 the RoF engine will have run its course anyway.

[HolyGrail]

I believe they will transfer all possible air and ground 3D models from CloD and now cancelled Battle of Moskow to

the the new engine so in the end they might basically charge for it through BoS in order to recover some of the lost

revenues due to the team working lately on now cancelled BoM as a lot of work and 3D modeling is done .

They will not release it all at once of course , then a bit more = new charge and then some more = new charge .....

there is soooo many models in CloD including no longer created BoM that they should be able to go on with

this for quite some time .

Indeed this all if 3D porting is possible which likely is .

So paid for CloD ? you better get ready , you gonna pay for a lot of it all over again in BOS .

I wish I am wrong thou , it's payroll expenses recovery time ..

[Freycinet]

Oh well, lots of answers in the "developer diary" just posted... Some good news, some not quite so. At least they are trying to make a viable product, given the constraints of the finances you can expect from a serious flight-sim. Tha's where the wildly ambitious CoD failed.

 

Well, I know CoD will still remain on my harddisk after BoS comes out, but I look very much forward to having them both, together with RoF!

 

I wish I am wrong thou , it's payroll expenses recovery time ..

 

Yes, ehhhhh..... What is so terribly bad about companies trying to earn more than they expend?

[Bearcat]

Jason said that the game will start, chronologically speaking, with Operation Uranus, so November 1942. That means, La5, Yak9, etc right from the start.

 

Besides, I am not sure how they want to provide convincing single player missions with just 10 different plane types.

 

These 16 would be minimum in my opinion. Any less at release makes the game not worth buying, IMO.

 

Bf109E-7

Bf109F-2/4

Bf110E/F/G

Fw190A

Ju87B/R/D

Ju88A-4

He111H-6

Ju52

 

I-16

Yak-1

Yak-9

La-5

LaGG3

IL-2

Pe-2

Li-2

 

I agree Zorin .. and who knows.. Jason said that the business model will be different from RoF so releasing BoS with this as a base wold be a smart move. It would provide enough for anyone willing to make the initial investment with enough to explore the sim in multiple roles from both sides of the conflict to help them determine whether or not they wanted to spend more on new stuff. It would provide enough tools for mission builders to be able to at least make missions with some level of detail to get a good idea of what the sim can do. The days of megs a d megs of free stuff are over.. and actually no one was as generous as 1C in that respect when you think about it and it spoiled us all.. but I also believe that gone are the days when simmers would drop down hard earned cash sight unseen on a product.. if anything as far as simmers go the last few offerings put the nails in that .. at least for me. So if developers want to p[rofit then they need to make sure that the starting product has enough to form a tangible base to build on.. This was one reason why I just never understood why Gaijin released WoP as they did.. As a base it was not bad but without a mission builder of any kind it was doomed from the start..

 

I think that considering that Jason is one of us.. he knows what simmers like because he is one and he knows the market.. He is aware that most of us are not "gamers" saving their allowance money but hard working stiffs who are more than willing to drop $$ for a product if it is viable. He knows this .. so for me in this case I am willing to put all my trepidation from the last 3 sims I bought new and bought dissappointment  to the side and based on the folks I am dealing with and what I know about the man be patient and watchful and actually anticipate a good product as opposed to either mourning the demise of one that was good but never fully realized or waiting with bated breath in expectation of yet another mediocre flying game trying to pass itself off as a sim.. 

[JG4_Sputnik]

I agree Zorin .. and who knows.. Jason said that the business model will be different from RoF so releasing BoS with this as a base wold be a smart move. It would provide enough for anyone willing to make the initial investment with enough to explore the sim in multiple roles from both sides of the conflict to help them determine whether or not they wanted to spend more on new stuff. It would provide enough tools for mission builders to be able to at least make missions with some level of detail to get a good idea of what the sim can do. The days of megs a d megs of free stuff are over.. and actually no one was as generous as 1C in that respect when you think about it and it spoiled us all.. but I also believe that gone are the days when simmers would drop down hard earned cash sight unseen on a product.. if anything as far as simmers go the last few offerings put the nails in that .. at least for me. So if developers want to p[rofit then they need to make sure that the starting product has enough to form a tangible base to build on.. This was one reason why I just never understood why Gaijin released WoP as they did.. As a base it was not bad but without a mission builder of any kind it was doomed from the start..

 

I think that considering that Jason is one of us.. he knows what simmers like because he is one and he knows the market.. He is aware that most of us are not "gamers" saving their allowance money but hard working stiffs who are more than willing to drop $$ for a product if it is viable. He knows this .. so for me in this case I am willing to put all my trepidation from the last 3 sims I bought new and bought dissappointment  to the side and based on the folks I am dealing with and what I know about the man be patient and watchful and actually anticipate a good product as opposed to either mourning the demise of one that was good but never fully realized or waiting with bated breath in expectation of yet another mediocre flying game trying to pass itself off as a sim.. 

 

+1

 

Also many people buy their rig just only for the simming genre. So if you are willing to drop like 1k -2k including a stick and some pedals track ir and a slick screen, then the 100 bucks for the whole planeset which keeps one busy for quite some time shouldnt be that big of a deal. So no complaining about that anymore please (unless you are a student or something, but then there are a lot of great sales as well). Im really looking forward to my Focke by the way

 

About the 3D midels just one thing. i think 777 is responsable for the planeset but can outsurce at least some static objects to the community. I know that for example foo.bar from the german community already got contacted (he usualy does trains) so Im sure a lot of tallented people are happy and willing to support the product with their work. So in a year + a lot of modelling work could be done.

The future is bright guys

[Catseye]

I was thinking the game would be out next year?...No?      2014 yikes!

 

Are we going to have to wait another 2 years for an old game engine sim?

 

Can they drag RoF out for another 2 years?

 

I guess we are stuck with COD as it is for the foreseable future for WW2 sim...maybe the modders will now get hold of COD?... IL2 had a whole new lease of life once the Devs had finished with it and modders took over...maybe the new IL2's biggest threat will be a Modded Cod?  can we call it ModCod from now on ?!!! 

 

Might start a new thread for ModCod !

 

Anyway I still hope BoS turns out good

 

 

In about one month it will be 2013. My understanding is that BOS will be out in early 2014. That is approximately one year, not two.

[addman]

Well, at least we can probably look forward to DLC planes down the line instead of waiting for an expansion that may or may not materialize every two years with like 4 new flyables in them. I hope that I finally may choose which planes I want instead of being drowned in 23 different 109 and/or Spit variants that I couldn't care less about, *BAARFF!!* Sorry about that, I just thought about all the Emil variants I've been flying the last year and a half.

[J5_Lehmann]

Hey boyz,

the threat-name doesn`t sound bad :D

I think if they merge they can do a lot of stuff together, more as we all think.

Maybe even the next generation of Sims!

 

I got really exciting about it! :D

[Blitzen]

I WISH 1C WOULD THROW US A BONE & GIVE US THE jU-88A-4- I mean how tough could that be?New wingtips & thats about it.I have plenty of screenshots from 1C showing a complete bird...

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

Guys.. guys.. guys..

 

Note the key word in the title of this thread.. That being the 'imho'

 

So unless this guy is one of the 777 programers I would take what he said with a pinch of salt! Surly nothing worth arguing about!