Flying the "Impossible Turn" in BoS

[andyw248]

Just found this footage in my recordings... flying what's called the "impossible turn" in the Yak-1. Thanks to the superb flight model it was quite realistic. Note how I tried to maintain the best glide speed, no matter how close I got to the ground. Also, note how I cut off the engine at 250 meters; please shoot me a PM if you have a video documenting you cutting off at a lower altitude and still making the "impossible turn" in the Yak-1. If you fly a real aircraft please skip this video altogether..

 

https://youtu.be/P-yTviiDWU0

 

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

So what are you saying, Andy?

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

he said "impossible turn"?

[Leaf]

That looks very impossible.

[SR-F_Winger]

OP is being sarcastic obviously...

 

Well, the YAK-1 is the special simpilots dream. Totally realistic FM:P

But i bet thats to be fixt in a later patch - right:)

 

EDIT: I wonder how this test would end in a 109 or 190 in BOS:)

The same? Doesnt work? I dont know.

Edited April 29, 2015 by VSG1_Winger

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Scary how fast you lose altitude IRL!

[361fundahl]

Great video, never knew!

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

EDIT: I wonder how this test would end in a 109 or 190 in BOS:)

 

Try it in Clod or 1946 that would be interesting too.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Plus in the real thing you are doing all your checks to find the fault.

 

During a solo flight in my flight training I once forgot to put the carb heat back in after a touch and go. As I climbed back up and turned crosswind there was no power. Frantically I was doing all the checks I'd been taught but kept missing the carburetor heat. As I turned on to downwind it was obvious I wasn't going to make it and was seriously going to make my peace with the world and pray to god as the houses beneath me started to get bigger and bigger when I decided to do another check and saw the carb heat at the last minute. The engine sprang back in to life and I climbed and then landed. I couldn't get out of the cockpit for 10 minutes as my legs were shaking so bad.

[MK_RED13]

Winger  the guy from your video is wrong... be sure!

[=LD=Penshoon]

Nice flying! What how much fuel did you use?

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I have been shot down by a Yak flying a vertical "S" like maneuver with flaps full deployed while I was going vertical as a rocket in the 190. No flap drag for Yak yet???

Edited April 29, 2015 by =[Coffin]=Gielow

[MK_RED13]

I have been shot down by a Yak flying a vertical "S" like maneuver with flaps full deployed while I was going vertical as a rocket in the 190. No flap drag for Yak yet???

... hehehe.. http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/15470-yak-1-flaps-down-arcadish-behaviour/

[Willy__]

 

 

=Gielow' timestamp='1430331623' post='256391'] No flap drag for Yak yet???

 

In mother russia the flap drags you.   

[303_Kwiatek]

In mother russia the flap drags you.   

 

 

In mother Russia everything is possible

Edited April 29, 2015 by 303_Kwiatek

[-TBC-AeroAce]

the cessnas climb speed is a lot closer speed to its stall speed when compared to the yak which has a good 100kph in ur vid over the stall speed (300kph ur climb vs a stall of 200kph). Try it at 250 and that will be more representative.

 

BUT im not saying ur wrong !!! Just saying u need to consider relative speeds, power to weight ratio, drag (cessna is a hella draggy) etc..... Its never that simple espesialy if comparing two different types 

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

This guy did it right in a P-51.  Low and fast, not on TO.

 

http://www.boldmethod.com/blog/video/2014/10/deadstick-landing-after-engine-failure-p-51-precious-metal/

Edited April 29, 2015 by VR_Stick

[6./ZG26_Emil]

This guy did it right in a P-51.  Low and fast, not on TO.

 

http://www.boldmethod.com/blog/video/2014/10/deadstick-landing-after-engine-failure-p-51-precious-metal/

 

He was doing well over 400 mph. That's a whole lot of altitude he could convert to to give him time.

[andyw248]

Nice flying! What how much fuel did you use?

None, once I had cut off the engine...  Well, usually I take off for maneuvers with about 50 - 60% fuel.

 

No flap drag for Yak yet???

I kept the flaps up for this little exercise.

 

the cessnas climb speed is a lot closer speed to its stall speed when compared to the yak which has a good 100kph in ur vid over the stall speed (300kph ur climb vs a stall of 200kph). Try it at 250 and that will be more representative.

 

BUT im not saying ur wrong !!! Just saying u need to consider relative speeds, power to weight ratio, drag (cessna is a hella draggy) etc..... Its never that simple espesialy if comparing two different types 

 Good point.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

Wind?

[andyw248]

the cessnas climb speed is a lot closer speed to its stall speed when compared to the yak which has a good 100kph in ur vid over the stall speed (300kph ur climb vs a stall of 200kph). Try it at 250 and that will be more representative.

 

BUT im not saying ur wrong !!! Just saying u need to consider relative speeds, power to weight ratio, drag (cessna is a hella draggy) etc..... Its never that simple espesialy if comparing two different types 

Second thoughts on this one... actually, when taking off in a 285hp Bonanza, at 800ft (~240m) the airspeed is usually around 110-120mph; stall speed (clean) is ~58mph. So that seems fairly similar to a Yak takeoff: climb speed 300kph, stall (clean) ~160kph.

 

Wind?

Turning into the wind after cutting the engine, at 2 or 3 m/s.

[LizLemon]

Nice to see this thread moved to the right forum

[=LD=Penshoon]

If you are ready and prepared for it it's probably doable with all planes in game. Did it in a Stuka with 100% fuel but no wind or turbulence,

[361fundahl]

Try it with he111 and the sc2500 attached. Good luck!

[NachtJaeger110]

This seems a real issue and clearly evidenced. I hope the relevant people look into it.

 

It's a shame when the tone used around it is sarcastic though, it must be tempting to simply ignore information when reported in that way. i.e. 'Is the person trying to help or just slate our work so far'.

 

+1 

The devs are doing a better job than most others, as real pilots often pointed out. Getting this right is difficoult even for real pilot training simulators.

 

But remember the Heinkel loop after takeoff without bombs or fuel? Same thing. We cannot test it, nor did people in 1940. So who says that it wasn't possible?

 

WW2 fighter planes certainly have completely different aerodynamic behavior than a cessna... it is just not comparable, the things were built for completely different speeds and surely differ a lot in drag.

 

What we need to do is looking for pilot reports or pilot traning instructions from the period and the planes modeled in BOS.

Edited April 30, 2015 by NachtJaeger110

[Blutaar]

But we often told that anecdotal things dont count for FM modeling.

[NachtJaeger110]

But we often told that anecdotal things dont count for FM modeling.

 

That's a real shame if you ask me, since I know somebody who develops real pilot training simulators and he assured me that it is not possible to get a plane to feel right without subjective Input from pilots...

 

edit: 

It would be so cool if we could just ask a 109 pilot of Messerschmitt Stiftung or a 190 pilot of FHC to test the game let's send them free copies, joysticks and some beer crates!

Edited April 30, 2015 by NachtJaeger110

[Leaf]

I think we need Crump's view on this. 

[andyw248]

This seems a real issue and clearly evidenced. I hope the relevant people look into it.

I actually didn't mean to say there is an issue with the FM. 800ft, or ~240m, is generally considered as the lowest possible altitude for flying the "impossible turn". So my expectation was that I should be able to do it from that altitude, and - knowing that I would cut the engine - it worked out exactly as expected.

 

If you are ready and prepared for it it's probably doable with all planes in game. Did it in a Stuka with 100% fuel but no wind or turbulence,

Yes, "ready and prepared" is essential. Otherwise you might get too slow, turn too late, don't bank enough, etc. and not make it. Good flying, btw, Penshoon! I like the fact that you kept the speed up at around 220, and the flaps up. From other discussions of the "impossible turn" it seems many pilots are intimidated by the steep glide that it takes to keep the airspeed up because it gets them close to the ground earlier than they thought.

[Sokol1]

Try it in Clod or 1946 that would be interesting too.

 

Why? I try (in CloD) and is the same thing, cut the engine at ~800 foots, turn back to to runway and landing, don't see nothing specially "interesting". 

 

In true, with Hurricane became a little complicated because the landing gear and flaps use hydraulic pressure, that is supplied be engine.

Engine off, no hydraulic pressure, no flaps, and no time to manually lower the landing gear, then is need do a belling landing (and a new propeller). 

[MK_RED13]

What this.. http://www.mediafire.com/watch/bz8pda7ptoe87e7/IL-2__Sturmovik__Battle_of_Stalingrad_05.10.2015_-_00.14.09.13.DVR_00_01_44-00_02_19.mp4

[Sunde]

What this.. http://www.mediafire.com/watch/bz8pda7ptoe87e7/IL-2__Sturmovik__Battle_of_Stalingrad_05.10.2015_-_00.14.09.13.DVR_00_01_44-00_02_19.mp4

Stalinwood - very stronk.

[MK_RED13]

Stalinwood - very stronk.

...it's not about "Stalinwood", it's about the missing half of the left wing and the ability of "monsterUFO" Yak to still fly.. the amount of hits is a different story...