Clouds cover altitude in Russia

[=VARP=Cygann]

Can someone comment if clouds altitude in Russia are as low as they are frequently in this sim?

 

I ask because in Croatia where I live, clouds are very very rare under 1,5km. I can make that estimate because mountains near my hometown are about 1,7km high and you can clearly see clouds way above that even on very bad weather. Granted, there are exceptions and sometimes they are maybe as low as 1000m but that happen rare while in BOS campaign 75% of the missions I fly with clouds set at 400m-500m.

 

It's kind of silly to be just on the deck as soon as you pass trough clouds layer, but if that is how Russia is in reality, then who am I to complain

 

Also could you Devs consider working on some clouds that are also irregular and thick in vertical. I mean clouds look quite nice in BOS (regardless that AI ignore them and fly always as if they are not there), but it might look a bit more realistic if they are not so 'perfect' vertically. Some could be maybe taller then others by some randomization since they are far from uniform and perfectly shaped in nature. 

 

Shape is not that big of a deal as altitude is if it's not correct, but just a suggestion to look at maybe...

 

Salute!

[=CFC=Conky]

The short answer is yes.

 

The climate in Croatia is much, much nicer than that in Russia. 

 

Good hunting,

CFC_Conky

[SKG51_robtek]

I think in a russian winter, with continental climate settings and temps far below zero, clouds below the stratosphere should be very rare.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Here's some interesting climate information for Stalingrad (Volgograd): http://www.volgograd.climatemps.com/

 

Definitely a high humidity, high precipitation climate (actually VERY similar to the climate where I live in Canada). I'm sure the processes are a bit different but during the winter we can have days of low cloud with 1000 ft ceilings and low visibility and I wouldn't be surprised if it were any different there. Honestly the guys on the 1CGS team got the weather and the look of winter pretty much spot on.

[Dakpilot]

I think in a russian winter, with continental climate settings and temps far below zero, clouds below the stratosphere should be very rare.

 

How does it snow then  I believe the period that BoS represents rather a lot of snow fell,,,,but not from the stratosphere

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Leaf]

Clouds don't occur in the Stratosphere; the atmosphere, much like the earth's core, is radially heterogenous. Basically a density gradient from most dense at the bottom of the Troposphere to least dense in the at the top of the Thermosphere. Water vapour is too dense to exist in the Stratosphere, so it is only found in the Troposphere up to the tropopause. 

But that's just a side note, generally I think it's a bit odd that clouds never occur above a certain altitude or extend much vertically. They're all basically just low altitude cumulus.

 

The way clouds work is that air rises at it's adiabatic lapse rate until it hits dew point temperature at condensation level and rises at the saturated adiabatic lapse rate. When the SALR is equal to the environmental lapse rate, the air mass stops rising, that's the top of the cloud.

 

So basically in-game we've got a situation where the condensation level is permanently low and and the SALR meets the ELR just above it. 

Don't know whether that's realistic or not.

[=VARP=Cygann]

I believe the OP was only talking about fair weather cumulus :-)

 

Overall I find cloud coverage, and it's effects, and weather effects ( wind / turbulence / precipitation and effects on rws ) very well modelled - I'd say, better modelled than in any other sim I have used !

 

I have no complaints, just asking about clouds altitude. They look great, especially since it's DX9 and lightning there is somewhat limited to what dx11 and soon 12 (all those God-rays...) can do for same GPU power.

 

It's just that I am very much surprised to be so low on the deck every time I pass trough cloud layer, and no high alt clouds at all. It's a lot different then what I can witness every day, but hey, I've never been to Russia, hence the question. 

 

Also Russia is quite big and looks diverse, I'd love to fly over those parts with mountains, but I guess those were not 'action points' in WWII ;D

 

P.S. thanks everyone for the answers. To state it once more, I don't ask this in a negative way, was just curious how realistic it is to have clouds at 400m mostly whole winter since I can't remember I've witnessed that in my life and in fact, I'd love to see and photograph such low clouds but over my hometown. That would be a sight

Edited April 26, 2015 by EAF19_Cyclops

[6./ZG26_Emil]

It would be nice to change their altitude. The FMB is amazing for all other weather options for example you can set different wind speed/directions at differing altitudes but unfortunately we can't change the cloud layer altitude. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

Clouds don't occur in the Stratosphere; the atmosphere, much like the earth's core, is radially heterogenous. Basically a density gradient from most dense at the bottom of the Troposphere to least dense in the at the top of the Thermosphere. Water vapour is too dense to exist in the Stratosphere, so it is only found in the Troposphere up to the tropopause. 

 

But that's just a side note, generally I think it's a bit odd that clouds never occur above a certain altitude or extend much vertically. They're all basically just low altitude cumulus.

 

The way clouds work is that air rises at it's adiabatic lapse rate until it hits dew point temperature at condensation level and rises at the saturated adiabatic lapse rate. When the SALR is equal to the environmental lapse rate, the air mass stops rising, that's the top of the cloud.

 

So basically in-game we've got a situation where the condensation level is permanently low and and the SALR meets the ELR just above it. 

 

Don't know whether that's realistic or not.

 

I'm hoping that the summer maps have a slightly different cloud setup where we see more of the towering cumulonimbus clouds that I'd expect to see in the summer months versus what happens in the fall and the winter. Hoping they can do a bit of that.

[SCG_Neun]

I've looked at clouds from both sides now
From up and down and still somehow
It's cloud's illusions I recall
I really don't know clouds at all  

 

Edited April 26, 2015 by JagdNeun

[Leaf]

 

I've looked at clouds from both sides now

From up and down and still somehow

It's cloud's illusions I recall

I really don't know clouds at all  

 

 

Sounds like one of raaaid's rhyming musings  :D

[TG-55Panthercules]

 

I've looked at clouds from both sides now

From up and down and still somehow

It's cloud's illusions I recall

I really don't know clouds at all  

 

 

 

Sounds like one of raaaid's rhyming musings  

 

Kinda makes me want to start a poll to see how many people here would make the connection to Joni Mitchell and/or Judy Collins (or have even heard of them) - given the relatively aging population of flight sim fans, maybe more than I think would.

[LAL_Luny]

As stated above clouds are very different depending on atmospheric conditions.

 

As they are now they are relevant considering average winter climate above Stalingrad.

 

They should be really different on summer map, ie much higher for light covers. A cumulonimbus stops climbing when it meets stratosphere.. Hence its shape

 

Also I live at 1000m altitude, in winter we are often in the clouds with snow with low temperatures (-5 -15°C)

In summer its quite rare that we are in the clouds but that does happen even with cumulonimbus (thunder storms).

 

At the moment (spring) we sometimes have very low thunderstorms with snow, but climate is a quite different from continental Russia

[312_Tygr]

Here in the Czech Republic in wintertime we have inversions, i.e. visibility from ~100-4000m, fog or mist up to 1500-2000 AGL, possibly finished of by a cloud layer at that altitude. That is until the temps fall well below zero at all times. When it's freezing with high atmospheric pressure, we get clear skies and of course it gets even colder. I'd assume that with -20 we'd get little to no cloud around Stalingrad, but who knows... Even after flying for the last 12 years, and PPL and CPL meteorology courses I'm still amazed by weather at times. If you had -20, and a warm, wet front came in from Black Sea (I guess that's where weather comes from in those parts) you'd probably have snowstorms, poor visibility, etc.

 

BTW - here's Gumrak TAF at the moment - TAF: URWW 270452Z 2706/2715 21005G10MPS 9999 SCT010 TEMPO 2706/2712 17005G10MPS - note scattered clouds at 1000 feet forecast for between 06:00 to 15:00 UTC.

[Brano]

It would be nice to change their altitude. The FMB is amazing for all other weather options for example you can set different wind speed/directions at differing altitudes but unfortunately we can't change the cloud layer altitude. 

I thought this possibility is there.At least in QMB.Must recheck again 

[No601_Swallow]

[SYN_Ricky]

The weather around Stalingrad during the period covered by the sim was pretty bad, with a lot of days with low clouds, snow and bad visibility.

[=VARP=Cygann]

The weather around Stalingrad during the period covered by the sim was pretty bad, with a lot of days with low clouds, snow and bad visibility.

 

This (or other way arround) is pretty much an answer I waited. So it is true weather was similar to one in QMB...errr I mean campaign. How interesting, and not only from meteorological point of view, but from the pilots that had to go look and hunt bombers in such conditions.