Bullet Strikes

[Rude_Toon]

Just wondering what the bullet strikes are going to look like.  Hopefully not the old pieces falling off stuff.  How about sparks and puffs of smoke like you can see in gun camera footage?

 

[Blooddawn1942]

While we have not seen any weapons in action yet, we can only guess what the effects will look like. But I bet that those effects will surely be not the uglyest part of BoS. After all what we have seen so far I doubt in general, that there will be any part of BoS, that will leave us fellow customers disappointed.

[Finkeren]

Sparks and puffs of smoke are fine, but it needs to be subtle. I don't want to see bright flashes light up the sky everytime a bullet hits.

 

I actually think the new 4.12 version of the old IL2 looks very good in this regard and could well serve as an inspiration for BoS. Gone is the old "black snow" of debris and the bright explosions of cannon shells. Instead we have a range of subtle effects, which are easy to miss at range.

[Rude_Toon]

Sparks and puffs of smoke are fine, but it needs to be subtle. I don't want to see bright flashes light up the sky everytime a bullet hits.

 

I actually think the new 4.12 version of the old IL2 looks very good in this regard and could well serve as an inspiration for BoS. Gone is the old "black snow" of debris and the bright explosions of cannon shells. Instead we have a range of subtle effects, which are easy to miss at range.

I am all for that, just don't want to see the black chunks, the gun footage I have seen shows impact.  there are sparks, and small puffs of smoke.  A realistic experience I think is what we all want.  Thanks for commenting.

While we have not seen any weapons in action yet, we can only guess what the effects will look like. But I bet that those effects will surely be not the uglyest part of BoS. After all what we have seen so far I doubt in general, that there will be any part of BoS, that will leave us fellow customers disappointed.

I hope so, thanks for the input!

[Shadylurker]

I don't know about not having any flashes.  Watch this crappy youtube video.  You can see the cannon hits flashing/chunks/smoke.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyJAlsJAbZw

[Blooddawn1942]

As far as I know, these"puffs" serves the purpose to indicate, if the enemy aircraft is beeing hit with my volleys I'm firing.

lets say maybe every 10th bullet or so in the belts have this effect to pulverize on impact.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Finkeren]

I don't know about not having any flashes. Watch this crappy youtube video. You can see the cannon hits flashing/chunks/smoke.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyJAlsJAbZw

I don't think anyone is suggesting not having flashes. All I said was that it has to be subtle.

[Adebar]

I bet most of you saw Flyboys, yes I know, Hollywood, realism debate and so on, but what I thought was kind of fitting are the bullet strikes for the WWI era. What do you think?

Edited October 12, 2013 by Sturmbock

[Greezy]

Guncam footage shows a ton of stuff. You get puffs, flashes, debris, plumes of smoke that obscure visibility, even explosions. It's about variation. My hope is that they include the explosions when the aircraft hit the ground. Seems like somehow the consensus in sims is that an airplane will hit the ground and lose a wing and then the fuselage will tumble around, still intact for a while. From the footage I've seen, unless you're doing a controlled belly landing or something, it won't take much for a big, fuel-filled bang.

[II./JG27_Rich]

I found some cool stuff but I can find shell strikes

 

 

http://www.pond5.com/sound-effects/1/shell.html#2

[II./JG27_Rich]

Just loaded this up after making it..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVIGZ9KWqBw&feature=youtu.be

Edited October 12, 2013 by II./JG27Richie

[Sokol1]

 

...Flyboys...What do you think?

 

Think in WT.

 

Sokol1

[Greezy]

Over 3.5 hours of guncam footage. Flashes, debris, smoke, explosions...it's really interesting stuff. Shocked to see footage of a downed 110 and the pilot coming back to strafe the crew. Can't remember the minute mark for that but it's within the first twenty minutes. Realities of war...makes your heart sink. You forget there are people in these machines.

 

[Greezy]

Plus MASSIVE fireballs when fuel trucks/depots are hit. Huge plumes of steam on train engines...it's really interesting.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Wow, thanks for posting... fascinating and shocking at the same time, i guess we will see more of these released and time goes on.

 

Your right, sometimes its easy to forget these sims that we play, moan and bitch about are just silly games, reality check right there after watching that.

[Sternjaeger]

Over 3.5 hours of guncam footage. Flashes, debris, smoke, explosions...it's really interesting stuff. Shocked to see footage of a downed 110 and the pilot coming back to strafe the crew. Can't remember the minute mark for that but it's within the first twenty minutes. Realities of war...makes your heart sink. You forget there are people in these machines.

 

 

All the Air Forces had episodes of this: there were some chaps that would throw a hip flask with water and other that would strafe them mercilessly. Shocking? Sure. Right? Wrong? I guess you had to be there..

Edited October 14, 2013 by Sternjaeger

[Rude_Toon]

Over 3.5 hours of guncam footage. Flashes, debris, smoke, explosions...it's really interesting stuff. Shocked to see footage of a downed 110 and the pilot coming back to strafe the crew. Can't remember the minute mark for that but it's within the first twenty minutes. Realities of war...makes your heart sink. You forget there are people in these machines.

 

Thanks for posting the video...that's what I am talking about!  When you have rounds tearing through metal it is kinetic, there is sparks and flashes as well as smoke.  If these where in color I am sure it would look even more dramatic.

[Sokol1]

Some "parachute hunting" too. 

 

Sokol1

[Rjel]

Some "parachute hunting" too. 

 

Sokol1

Not necessarily. Many times a pilot would shoot film of a pilot after bailing as confirmation. They could run the gun camera independently without firing the guns too.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Interesting video regarding effects. I wonder how BoS will do it. US planes strafing downed crew or doing parachute hunting was nothing new. Many German accounts tell how US planes did it very frequently, RAF planes very rarely if not at all.

[MarcoRossolini]

Incredible stuff, thanks for that. Watched the first few minutes, interesting to see that all I saw were turn fights. 

[Flanker15]

I remember from last time people were talking about this somewhere was that with machineguns only the incendenary bullets flashed and made smoke even when striking metal, with 6 machine guns firing there's lots of other bullets hitting the planes in between the flashes in the video which you can't see unless they hit something like the engine or knock a piece off or if they're shooting the ground.

Wonder if BoS will have ammo types in the belts or if they'll have different hit effects like Clod.

[Adebar]

Currently searching this particular guncam video, where the pilot is attacking ground targets while Flak is shooting at him and you could clearly see the Flak's bullet strikes passing around the canopy.

 

Also there are tons of color guncam videos on the net, especiall the videos from pacific theatres are kind of "spectacular".

 

Thanks for sharing the video above, Rude, Airboyd is a good fella.

[II./JG27_Rich]

Over 3.5 hours of guncam footage. Flashes, debris, smoke, explosions...it's really interesting stuff. Shocked to see footage of a downed 110 and the pilot coming back to strafe the crew. Can't remember the minute mark for that but it's within the first twenty minutes. Realities of war...makes your heart sink. You forget there are people in these machines.

 

Exactly. That's something I always remember and when I watch I'm hoping the aeroplane doesn't blow up and the guy can ditch or bail.

[Sokol1]

and the guy can ditch or bail.

 

See at 31:45

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xFY0JZ3m7WI#t=1902

 

 

Not necessarily. Many times a pilot would shoot film of a pilot after bailing as confirmation. They could run the gun camera independently without firing the guns too.

 

And what is the problem in then shoot the chutes? It was a war!

 

 

AD It is known that in the West, often American pilots were shot by German pilots parachute. Was it on the Eastern Front? They shot a German pilots in Russian and Russian - in German?

AG No, on the Russian front, this was not. Never heard of any such case. In Russia it was not on both sides. On the ground shot, but the fighter pilots at each other - ever. After the war, I met with several American officers, and when I told them that the Americans were always shooting at pilots jumped out with a parachute, and in Russia it never happened, the Americans did not believe me. When I was shot down for the last time, the American fighters shot down, then I fell eight thousand feet almost to the ground without opening parachute that I have not shot the Americans. Only at the last moment I pulled the ring. If I did not, I would have shot in the air.

http://www.airforce.ru/history/ww2/grislawsky/index.htm

 

Sokol1

Edited October 15, 2013 by Sokol1

[Sternjaeger]

there isn't a "one fits all" rule for bullet strikes, it's a combination of what gets hit by what: for example, a burst of MG17 on a wooden wing will hardly make any spark (unless it hits any metal component/hatch/part), whilst an hit from an explosive MG-FF would look different from an AP one.. I guess it really depends on how deep they're going with the Damage Model. 

A nice feature would be to see the actual bullet holes appearing where the plane got hit, that would add an immense value to the sim. 

Any idea on whether we're going to be able to have damage reports either live or after the flight? That would be so cool! Like flying back from a mission and receiving a damage report from your mechanic, telling you what failed (and perhaps link it to a replay video?). That would really bring immersion to a new level!!

[Rude_Toon]

Color film

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mD7l2mQYlYQ

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

Sparks and puffs of smoke are fine, but it needs to be subtle. I don't want to see bright flashes light up the sky everytime a bullet hits.

 

I actually think the new 4.12 version of the old IL2 looks very good in this regard and could well serve as an inspiration for BoS. Gone is the old "black snow" of debris and the bright explosions of cannon shells. Instead we have a range of subtle effects, which are easy to miss at range.

 How about a "katjing" sound everytime you hit an airplane and an XP indicator pops up in the hud to tell you how many Xp points you got for hitting the target ?    

[kestrel79]

I love watching guncam footage. When I get home I'll watch all this stuff.

 

One question I always had...when they show bombers getting attacked they almost never seem to be firing back. Did they get bounced or can their bullets just not be seen firing back? Or are they already dead? Always wondered that.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

I suspect for those long, stable guncam shots of attacks on bombers, the gun crews were already out of action, or that sort of attack would be very dangerous.

Edited October 16, 2013 by HeavyCavalrySgt

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

What all these guncam films tell me is that hitting a target produced very variable results, from no noticeable effects to balls of fire. A sort of randomized algorithms of visual effects for different types of damages may be an idea.

 

One type of damage often seen in these clips but lacking on old IL2 is the short bursts of (I suppose) catastrophic fire. Some of those (when appropriate) would be nice.

[MarcoRossolini]

Color film

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mD7l2mQYlYQ

 

 

With all due respect to men involved, from that documentary you'd think the Americans were the only ones with aircraft during the war. If it's World War II "The Air War" then you'd think they'd include something from the Japanese, the Germans, the Soviets and the British to name but a few... If it were something like "The Mighty Eighth" then that's fine but... 

 

Oh wait, it's the history channel, forget what I said.

[Flanker15]

What all these guncam films tell me is that hitting a target produced very variable results, from no noticeable effects to balls of fire. A sort of randomized algorithms of visual effects for different types of damages may be an idea.

 

One type of damage often seen in these clips but lacking on old IL2 is the short bursts of (I suppose) catastrophic fire. Some of those (when appropriate) would be nice.

Yeah the fire in sims seems to always forget that the planes are moving around pretty fast so fires get sucked out into intermittant flares. One of the effects mods for il2 had it though.

 

Also in the long video above right at the start 2nd plane is a 110 that gets hit on the right wing and detonates like a cannon belt going off, what could it be?

[MarcoRossolini]

Fuel? I doubt it'd be ammunition if it were the right wing of a 110...

[Finkeren]

 

Also in the long video above right at the start 2nd plane is a 110 that gets hit on the right wing and detonates like a cannon belt going off, what could it be?

 Fuel or maybe it was a pulkzerstörer armed with 2 Wurfgranate under each wing?

[Sternjaeger]

fellas, for the record, the flashes you see in the USAAF reels when hitting the ground is the one of incendiary rounds, which make a nice big flash when they hit something that is hard enough (not necessarily metal). They do flash if they hit a hard surface, and flash and spark when they hit metal.

 

[Schwalbee]

I also hope that the hit detection is spot on..many times in other sims i see parts flying off and the planes flies normally