Deadly_Dolphin Posted April 11, 2015 Posted April 11, 2015 Hello all. I just got back to this game, after a long unwanted break.. And the first thing that jumps out to me, is that, small fighters have turned into small flying tanks it seems, i first thought that my aim was to blame.but after putting the poor novice AI through the meat grinder, testing only the cannon.im convinced that they must have tweak the DM on most planes too "very Stroonk" am i the only one that feel like they have gone overboard, in terms of strength for the new DM.Before a solid 3-4 hits from the 20mm was just the ticket for an enemy pilot to turn into an unwilling skydiver. Looking at old gun-cam footage shows that it often only took single solid 2-3 second burst from most 20's to rip apart most single engine fighters. just my 3 cents, anyway whats the Forums thoughts?
Venturi Posted April 11, 2015 Posted April 11, 2015 There was a lot of complaining, by people who thought their wings ripped off too easily and mg fire was too effective. So the devs adjusted it.
AvengerSeawolf Posted April 11, 2015 Posted April 11, 2015 I have not noticed how was before , since I have started using the game from 1.010version. Sometimes is seems that they can take lot of damage before they go down. But then again depends where you hit. However. I have noticed that 90% of the times I hit those planes when they start smoking grey and white smoke they do not degrade in performance after a while ( 1-2 min) well as it seems to me they do not degrade on performance at all. Do not know if this should happen but it does. Next time you do your test have a recording on and see where the bullets hit them. I have seen broken wings with no more than 2 hits in a fighter when in an odd angle of attack. So I cannot say for sure if , what and how much is wrong concerning other hits. 1
Leaf Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 I think structural integrity has gone from slightly too fragile to slightly too strong. But it's difficult to discuss due to the subjective nature of DMs. Since we can't roll back to the last patch and test the difference it's difficult to ascertain the exact changes made and their impact on gameplay.
6./ZG26_Emil Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 I think structural integrity has gone from slightly too fragile to slightly too strong. But it's difficult to discuss due to the subjective nature of DMs. Since we can't roll back to the last patch and test the difference it's difficult to ascertain the exact changes made and their impact on gameplay. I'd be happy if the structural integrity stays almost the same maybe a little weaker but engines die a bit quicker. I'm no expert but I do wonder how long these engines should be able to fly with coolant or oil leaking? 1
Roo5ter Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 I think engines are in a good place. I would like to see the structure slightly weaker.
361fundahl Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 Yeah and old low compression I eternal combustion motor could likely survive a while with leaking coolant.... Oil too until bearing surfaces and camshafts seize
361fundahl Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 The problem is most easy hits are on fuselage and you need component hits for most damage.
Finkeren Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) I think the DM was made more or less 'perfect' (within the limits of the sim) in 1.009 and I don't recognise the 'flying tank' image that some are painting. I can rip off the wings of both bombers and fighters just fine and can achieve multiple kills even with the small ammo supply of the Yak and LaGG (gunned down 4 Ju 87s and a 109 in one SP mission with the LaGG just last night) and I'm not a particularly good shot. I like that there is now a good balance between the different types of damage, where earlier about 50% of my kills lost a wing after the first salvo and that was it. Please keep the DM as it is. It's great now, don't fix what isn't broken. Edited April 12, 2015 by Finkeren 3
AbortedMan Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 Aim for wings. Period. You'll see them pop off almost instantly. Most WAG shots hit the fuselage and tail and end up hitting elevator and tail section. Also, your convergence has a huge impact on the amount of damage done to components. Make sure you're firing at what you set your convergence to.
LLv24_Zami Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 I think the DM was made more or less 'perfect' (within the limits of the sim) in 1.009 and I don't recognise the 'flying tank' image that some are painting. I can rip off the wings of both bombers and fighters just fine and can achieve multiple kills even with the small ammo supply of the Yak and LaGG (gunned down 4 Ju 87s and a 109 in one SP mission with the LaGG just last night) and I'm not a particularly good shot. I like that there is now a good balance between the different types of damage, where earlier about 50% of my kills lost a wing after the first salvo and that was it. Please keep the DM as it is. It's great now, don't fix what isn't broken. +1!! I think DM is pretty much spot on now.
Deadly_Dolphin Posted April 12, 2015 Author Posted April 12, 2015 I would still say that at the moment the DM is off, planes where not built to take cannon fire, they seem far too strong at the moment, i rarely see fires or any of the carnage that you see 20 mm cannon hits cause on camera recordings...I would agree that before, it was somewhat Michael Bay'ish with wings and tails ripping of left and right... But planes are just not, built to handle the abuse of being under fire. sure some planes came back severely banged up, but these were the exception not the rule.I personally think the ruggedness should be dialed a bit back. 1
Venturi Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) In general the complaints were regarding how easily everything got damaged. However, in my opinion wings are just a bit too sturdy now. Four or five HE shells in the wing ought to severely weaken it. One ought to be enough to remove an elevator or other control surface. And this control surface loss often happens now, but with multiple cannon hits, and the wing structure just in general seems tough. However, AP fire is effective, which is great. There is much more failure from component and eventually engine damage versus structural. This makes sense against AP Mg fire. Which is probably what is hitting the planes most often given mg rate of fire and mv. At least it ought to be, and it ought to be effective in taking out radiators, electrics, guns, components, etc. I enjoy seeing water coolant leaks, this is a major failure mode for water cooled engines and a major reason why the radials were considered more combat durable. I really like the AP shell damage model. The rate of engine damage, and the time to failure seem OK to me, all things considered. I think that oil leaks ought to occur more often - keep in mind that oil radiators were on every aircraft. And an oil leak or oil pressure drop is very quickly fatal for large displacement, high out put, high manifold pressure supercharged engines. Edited April 12, 2015 by Venturi
[TWB]80hd Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 If Klaus does not fall down, Volkov-Yartsev is who to make argument for you, tovarisch! If Volkov-Yartsev is not convincing him you want Shpitalny (not little brother Shpitalny, big brother Shpitalny!)... no one ignores big brother Shpitalny! You fly plane until Klaus is ahead, you make Shpitalny to bark, then to be yelling "YURI!!! HE IS BURNING!!!!"
361fundahl Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 So..... I guess the blue tip ammo is AP and the orange tip ammo is HE? And convergence is the point where the bullets will cross path?
ShamrockOneFive Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 I'm pretty happy with the damage model. They are a bit stronger now but they still rip to shreds pretty quickly. On the contrary to people not seeing the performance loss... It's definitely there. Just last night my escort ripped into two LaGG-3s and the one went down but the other managed to stay alive. But his engine was toast and a few minutes later I found him struggling to keep up with my Stuka. So..... I guess the blue tip ammo is AP and the orange tip ammo is HE?And convergence is the point where the bullets will cross path?Yep. Correct on all. Convergence is both horizontal and vertical. So your bullets will pass through your gunsight at 250 meters or 300 meters or 1000 meters. Whatever you set it to.
361fundahl Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 I'm always stuck trying to decide between 400, 500 or 700meter
Original_Uwe Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Shoot i always go 100 or less. Edited April 16, 2015 by forsale
-TBC-AeroAce Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 I used to get a hell of a lot more kills with last dm. I normally hit first or second pass and that was enough. I still do the same but planes seem to keep on going or get picked off by someone else after. Im not sure if dm is right or not but I think assists should be worth a lot more especially if planes are really rugged. I'm sick of battling a 109 down to the ground for 10 mins, doing damage and then for the shoulder shoot parade to come in and finish the job.I'm not really bothered about scores so much but it niggles me when u often put in a lot of work and get no reward
361fundahl Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Yes we definitely NEED assists.... I have badly damaged many a fw190 to see them limp home and I'm out of ammo... Then someone has a super easy "kill" But honestly I play the game for fun and the points don't mean anything so I really don't care lol. I just like the physics and graphics.... Edited April 16, 2015 by 361fundahl
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