Bearcat Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Anyone who likes coops really should try a coop (or versus) campaigns. The continuity and meaningfulness of the events raises the whole game to a different level. SEOW is of course totally epic, but DCG can be pretty fun as well with far less trouble. Yes we did a few of those as well.. we just never finished them... and they were interesting because you could see everyone's progress as the campaign unfolded..
SharpeXB Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) If it helps the discussion. Both the RoF Career and Pat Wilson Campaign Generator are free downloads. Give em a try and you'll understand what people are asking for. Both have different good points Pat Wilsons is astonishing in the level of detail you get in the squadrons. He must have researched every roster so when you join one, there's all the actual people who flew in it. Both have the actual locations of the units and where they were at a particular time. The RoF one has period newspaper articles that are delivered with your mail every so often. Both researched out all the correct awards and the changing criteria depending on the time and branch of service. Edited April 13, 2015 by SharpeXB
Vaxxtx Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 I agree.. I got that from the BoS campaign... Really? You are a rarity then. Cannot finish an in depth DCG campaign, but got re playability from the 4 way point, small scale, groundhog day, excuse of a campaign in BoS? Stumped me there.
SharpeXB Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Really? You are a rarity then. Cannot finish an in depth DCG campaign, but got re playability from the 4 way point, small scale, groundhog day, excuse of a campaign in BoS? Stumped me there.My own definition of Groundhog Day is when you're forced to repeat the same scripted mission after failing or not finishing it. At least the BoS campaign doesn't do that to you. IMO that's the worst feature a flight sim campaign can have. Edited April 13, 2015 by SharpeXB 1
Bearcat Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Really? You are a rarity then. Cannot finish an in depth DCG campaign, but got re playability from the 4 way point, small scale, groundhog day, excuse of a campaign in BoS? Stumped me there. Just to clarify.. what I meant by that was that because the BoS campaign was NOT dynamic... I gained a more pronounced appreciation for a dynamic campaign.. The only reason I finished the BoS campaign was because I was forced to and I was not happy about it. The reasons why I did not walk away from BoS were: It ran well on my PC. It looks very good and has many features that while small to some for me are very immersive, like the heat blur, the flames on start up, the night time sky, the lighted vehicles, the moving people ... among other things. There was enough good about it IMO to offset the bad. It takes a lot for me to walk away from an investment in a game that is more than $40. I gave CFS3, CoD and some of the DCS titles that I no longer own (not a helo fan at all I found out ... love the WWII stuff and FC3/CA are aiiight ... ) several attempts throughout the years before I gave them away. I had and still have a great deal of confidence in this team as far as their desire to deliver on their stated goals and I refuse to second guess their every move, even if I am not happy with some of them.. and there have been several decisions made that I was not happy with.. some of which have already been corrected which tells me my faith is not misplaced. While campaigns are not a big thing for me I can see where for someone whose main attraction to any sim is the SP campaign, why they would be turned off from this one. What I have a hard time understanding .. and this is me... I'm not poo pooing anyone's opinion.. just saying I do not understand aspects of the reaction.. but what I have a hard time understanding is why people would go to such extremes given all the other things about BoS that have been done well and the fact that when all is said and done the sim is 6 months old, the fact that some of the hostility for lack of a better term toward the title has been going on to a greater or lesser extent since it's announcement getting more harsh along the way from the EA period to release and afterwards ... to the point where some folks have been engaged in an active campaign across multiple venues to discourage folks from even considering buying the sim.. even when it was on sale for a very good price warts and all when compared to other developer supported offerings available. Some on other forums have taken issue with my using the phrase "developer supported" but IMO that is a very important issue because other offerings while not developer supported.. can be obtained for under $10 and the support that they do get is free... so there is no real comparison between any of those titles and either BoS, DCS, or even dare I say it War Thunder .. because the latter titles are all still supported with all that that fact entails. I have read on this very forum where someone said they would not pay $9 for BoS... which to me is just astounding and totally absurd so I have a hard time fully understanding that level of discontent with this product because it just does not warrant it. In that respect I imagine I am not alone which is why very often threads like this one turn into slug fests between members on opposing sides of the fence.. This sim is a work in progress.. and I for one would like to see the work continue.. hence I have no problem supporting the title when truth be told due to some real life issues I have not even been able to fully enjoy it like I would have liked to. The only reason I was able to get through the campaign like I did was because I was on Christmas vacation... but for me the potential is obvious and there is enough in it to enjoy with the limited time I have at my disposal.. and I look forward to the future in this series because I think that it will be very bright.. and I am not wearing any glasses of any kind.
Vaxxtx Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 My own definition of Groundhog Day is when you're forced to repeat the same scripted mission after failing or not finishing it. At least the BoS campaign doesn't do that to you. IMO that's the worst feature a flight sim campaign can have. No failing a mission in BoS means you get to do another 4 waypoint mission, with the same 3 bomber formation, that does not matter anyway because after its over you spin the wheel again for another template, with an unknown pilot, against an unknown squadron, etc. etc. Just to clarify.. what I meant by that was that because the BoS campaign was NOT dynamic... I gained a more pronounced appreciation for a dynamic campaign.. Got it. Misunderstood. 1
SharpeXB Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 No failing a mission in BoS means you get to do another 4 waypoint mission, with the same 3 bomber formation, that does not matter anyway because after its over you spin the wheel again for another template, with an unknown pilot, against an unknown squadron, etc. etc..Agreed. But the action within those missions even though they have the same description is different. You can repeat the same mission types, and have them all result in varying action. In the real war there were in fact a set of similar mission types so that fact isn't so bothersome. A scripted chapter campaign forces you to repeat exactly the same action like intercepting the same Bomber at the same place and encounter the same escourts every time. Like the stock campaigns with RoF. That's GHD
AndyHill Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 To be fair, it's not necessarily easy to actually finish a DCG campaign, especially the more balanced ones, due to built-in stability in the game design. The campaigns usually end up with one side having extremely stretched supply lines and even with full air superiority it will be difficult to do the final push against the opponent's spawn point. The beautiful thing about DCG is how incredibly simple it is in the end - and there would be vast development potential in it if someone had the time and interest to put a lot of development effort into it (I think Löwengrin got tired of the project at some point himself). Actually I kind of think the barebones campaign in BoS is a pretty good start with a lot of potential in it - as has already been mentioned it will already create infinite numbers of more or less reasonable missions for you, now we just need to get some continuity and details. The only really bad thing about the campaign at the moment is the fact that the developers seem to be relatively content with it in the state it is right now.
Vaxxtx Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 While campaigns are not a big thing for me I can see where for someone whose main attraction to any sim is the SP campaign, why they would be turned off from this one. What I have a hard time understanding .. and this is me... I'm not poo pooing anyone's opinion.. just saying I do not understand aspects of the reaction.. but what I have a hard time understanding is why people would go to such extremes given all the other things about BoS that have been done well and the fact that when all is said and done the sim is 6 months old, the fact that some of the hostility for lack of a better term toward the title has been going on to a greater or lesser extent since it's announcement getting more harsh along the way from the EA period to release and afterwards ... to the point where some folks have been engaged in an active campaign across multiple venues to discourage folks from even considering buying the sim.. even when it was on sale for a very good price warts and all when compared to other developer supported offerings available. Some on other forums have taken issue with my using the phrase "developer supported" but IMO that is a very important issue because other offerings while not developer supported.. can be obtained for under $10 and the support that they do get is free... so there is no real comparison between any of those titles and either BoS, DCS, or even dare I say it War Thunder .. because the latter titles are all still supported with all that that fact entails. I have read on this very forum where someone said they would not pay $9 for BoS... which to me is just astounding and totally absurd so I have a hard time fully understanding that level of discontent with this product because it just does not warrant it. It was me that said I value BoS right now at $9. And I stand by that no matter how absurd you find it. I can say the same thing about how you find it worth over $9, and that I find that absurd, because the product does not warrant it. Who is right?
SharpeXB Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 An obstacle for having a day to day progression for the current campaign was that it would need seasonal maps. But that problem will be resolved shortly. Just adding that progression and some actual units would be a big improvement.
1CGS LukeFF Posted April 13, 2015 1CGS Posted April 13, 2015 It was me that said I value BoS right now at $9. And I stand by that no matter how absurd you find it. And, given your post history, no one really believes you are honestly valuing the game at such a ridiculously low dollar amount. It's just like the same people on Metacritic who gave the game a 1/10 rating. 1
Vaxxtx Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 And, given your post history, no one really believes you are honestly valuing the game at such a ridiculously low dollar amount. It's just like the same people on Metacritic who gave the game a 1/10 rating. And, given your post history, you kiss the backside of anything these people say or do so no surprise you get hurt over someone not liking it. No surprise. And, yeah the 1/10 was as stupid as the 10/10. I was fair though 3/10. 1
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