War Thunder or World of XXXXX?

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

It's only if you don't take into account that mostly they are programmers, not qualified engineers. So when they make a judgment like this :

Well as an engineer, who programs.. I can assure you, you are not giving programmer the credit they deserve.. Some of the guys I work with, who are programmers have a better understanding of the subject than some of the so called expert engineers.. Granted, this is not to say there are no bad programmers out there.. Just that you should not assume there is or could be a problem with their conclusion just because they are 'only' programmers.

[johncage]

playing warthunder for planes is retarded. world of warplanes, why would you even consider that?

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

You dont understand. Its not general. It was focused on Gaijin FM guys. And I know a little about them since I was in the team for some time. 

 

I know very well there are good programmers. I know one who later gained knowledge in aeronautics too. But it was not generally towards all programmers but specifically about those related to Wt. But anyway, there are nicer things to talk about

Edited May 14, 2015 by =LD=Hiromachi

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

playing warthunder for planes is retarded. world of warplanes, why would you even consider that?

Simple.. Over all it is fun!

 

That and no one has provided anything thus far that would show let alone prove that the DCS or BoS flight modling is better than War Thunders..

 

No one

 

Granted, BoS does not provide any methods to collect data to even begin to show how accurate the FMs are.. Like War Thunder does.. There is a 3rd party tool for DCS that will allow data to be collected, but as noted above, no one had provided anything that could be remotely considered proof the BoS or DCS flight modeling is better than War Thunders..

 

Which is not surprising when you consider the FACT that the math of a 6DOF flight simulation model has existed for years, decades even and that it has been implemented on the PC for decades in all sorts of languages, One of the earlier examples being the 6DOF flight simulation code of the F16 written in FORTRAN.

 

In light of that FACT, I find it hard to belive that any flight sim maker would have a hard time implementing a 6DOF flight simulation model that is vastly different from another.. math is math.

 

Thus the only real root of error is in coefficients and data put into the 6DOF flight simulation code.. ie garbage in garbage out.

 

For example..

 

Lets assume for a moment that DCS's flight model results in a 2% error with regards to real world airplane performance data..

 

Hey that is great!

 

And lets also assume that War Thunder's flight model result in a 5% error with regards to real world airplane performance data..

 

Based on that, one could make the argument that DCS is 'better'..

 

But, now take into considerating the 'game' as a whole..

 

DCS and BoS have very Very VERY limited plane sets and maps..

 

That is to say, HOW REAL can a simulation be of a WWII event using DCS or BoS?

 

Answer

 

Not that real..

 

Where as with War Thunder you can 'do more' to simulate a WWII event..

 

Ill take that over a few percentage point differences in flight modeling accuracy anyday..

 

And this argument is not new..

 

It is the SAME argument the old IL-2 users are pointing out realitive to the new IL-2 BoS and soon to be BoM..

 

Where they will suffer the older graphics but be able to choose from hundreds of planes and dozens of maps..

 

Hope that answers your question! S!

 

You dont understand. Its not general.

Actually I think I understand all to well!

[Bearcat]

So how about combined arms...

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

So how about combined arms...

I bought it, but, to be honest, modern tanks don't do it for me like WWII era tanks

[sop]

Im really enjoying World Of Warships beta, currently trying to get to nagato on IJN  stopped on NM(new mexico)RE USS  class  damn  these models look so cool!  

Edited May 22, 2015 by sop

[Bearcat]

I bought it, but, to be honest, modern tanks don't do it for me like WWII era tanks

 

LoL.. I feel the same way about flight sims..

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

LoL.. I feel the same way about flight sims..

Me too.. My interest in planes ends around 1967.. Modern jet stuff just does not grab me like WWI, WWII, KOREA.. If I had to sum it up, I prefer gun kills over BVR missile stuff.. Some of the early short range KOREAN missile stuff is fin though.. As for War Thunder tanks.. I am having so much fun.. That and I am having flash backs to the 70s we me and a fried would by the TAMIA tanks that had electric motors in them, we would dig up my mothers flower garden and drive the tanks around, buld little towns film them with 8mm cameras.. I hear that is how Speilberg got this start too! I still have that film, I need to find a place to convert it to mpg or something

 

Im really enjoying World Of Warships beta, currently trying to get to nagato on IJN  stopped on NM(new mexico)RE USS  class  damn  these models look so cool!  

SOP!

 

Hey, is nash playing warships? I was wondering if War Thunder is going to add ships, I think they are planing on it, just have not done it yet. Seems World of XXX and War Thunder are going for the same market.. A full world battle field.. the Holy Grail of simming, something that has been talked about since the early days of flight simming back in the 90s and looks like it might finally happen. Just a question of which one will end up on top.. Good days for us simmers what with all the selection and competition out there

[sop]

Naw nash didnt get an invite ;|  a  beta key I sent him( I got really lucky in the beta lottery, joy of more than one email address) didnt work , re war thunder have an account but havent played in a bit it was fun/relaxing and thats what it all comes down to end of the day.

[Bearcat]

The only reason I bought FC3 was because it was on sale for $5 .... Yeah I like up to Korea as well..

 

I can't believe you spent close to 1K on WT...

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

I can't believe you spent close to 1K on WT...

Well.. I don't have as much free time as some have..

 

Work is crazy busy what with the all the T72 tanks we are instrumenting..

 

Thus, I didn't have time to play the game long enough to unlock the tanks I wanted to play and get the automatic updates of each tank..

 

But they do provide a way to buy the pay for unlocks and updates..

 

So, that is what I did.. Basically I have unlocked and upgraded all of the US tanks to the best options with the best crews..

 

It is allot of fun!

 

On that note, I have only unlocked a few of the aircraft, the P51, P47, and P38.. I don't think I am going to spend the $ to unlock all the planes

 

I think I give the playing it to unlock it a try.

 

In that there is some sense of reward there that I am short circuiting by just paying for it.

Edited May 22, 2015 by ACEOFACES

[361fundahl]

I just want to run around in a whirblewind!

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Im really enjoying World Of Warships beta, currently trying to get to nagato on IJN  stopped on NM(new mexico)RE USS  class  damn  these models look so cool!  

Well, I'm in beta too. For the moment its more like a World of Battleships. I know people go crazy about US BBs since they are new but still it just more than I expected. But there are also a major problems, like HE rounds totally outperforming AP rounds, crazy chance to cause a fire with them, a mess with aircraft carriers ... 

 

Personally I was more happy with previous patch. The new one broke a lot of things.

I mean, just look  at this :

 

or this

 

Of course its beta, and thats why I hope the kind of problems like that will vanish at some point.

 

But models ... models are neat. I just love how some cruisers and carriers look, and seeing them in combat is whole new experience. 

Edited May 22, 2015 by =LD=Hiromachi

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

I just want to run around in a whirblewind!

Well driving a real T-72 is fun..

 

But.. I'm just too big to sit inside it and drive it for more than a few mins.. Russian tanks are designed for migets

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I just want to run around in a whirblewind!

You called for a Wirbelwind? There you have it.

 

Don't know what to say about World of Warships tbh. I find it too arcade/WoT but carrier gameplay looks quite interesting (although might get boring soon as you have very few options). Maybe gameplay will develop in an other direction in which case I'd be interested to give it a try. Technically it looks quite well but retains it's soft "cartoonish" look WoT has.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

Don't know what to say about World of Warships tbh. I find it too arcade/WoT but carrier gameplay looks quite interesting (although might get boring soon as you have very few options). Maybe gameplay will develop in an other direction in which case I'd be interested to give it a try. Technically it looks quite well but retains it's soft "cartoonish" look WoT has.

 

It is arcadish because that was the intention of the developer. But it doesnt make it bad. I find it really nice to play, although with latest patch  this has changed. But its nothing they cant fix, so I'm sure soon it will get better.

Aircraft carriers before the patch were very flexible, only now it has changed ...

[sop]

Have no prob with latest patch,but BB prob turn a little too fast, but then again have never gone near carrier class so cant comment intresting vids hiro

Edited May 23, 2015 by sop

[361fundahl]

I'm sure warthunder's approach to ships will be better.... Then all they need is infantry combat and combine all the battles!

I had a blast playing bf4 style "hardcore mode" for a while.... I have a feeling warthunder would be a bit more ARMAish

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I've been testing WoWs for a while. It started nice but than they made a few weird moves, for unknown reason they took away from Japanese cruisers a famous long lance torpedo (Type 93 torpedo) leaving it only to destroyers. Since then Japanese cruisers are rather inferior to their US counterparts, with the exception of Mogami (or actually not anymore as it was moved I tier higher). And nothing stands  a chance against well played Des Moines, not even a BB as you saw.

 

I'm just a bit disappointed with the latest patch and hope some of the changes will be reversed. 

 

 

I'm sure warthunder's approach to ships will be better.... Then all they need is infantry combat and combine all the battles!

I ... doubt so. It will be different, probably involving more factor and being closer to realistic combat ... but a category such as better / worse is very personal. I like the WoWs approach even though its not that realistic. 

And besides, I hope they wont even try the ships for now. They havent finished and fixed the aircraft before they went for tanks. Now the tanks have multiple issues and if the would go for yet another mode ? That would be a disaster to the project quality. 

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

I'm sure warthunder's approach to ships will be better....

Agreed 100%

 

And based on what others have said, seems War Thunder has a more realistic feel than World of XXXX

 

Then all they need is infantry combat and combine all the battles!

 

I had a blast playing bf4 style "hardcore mode" for a while.... I have a feeling warthunder would be a bit more ARMAish

Again Agreed 100%

 

Funny you should mention ARMA.. I was just thinking how much more I like War Thunder over that WWII ARMA 1944 thing they did awhile back, where they licenced the ARMA II engine.

 

As I have been playing tanks, I have been thinking how cool it would be to have real infantry running round.. You know the plan on doing it based on the detail of the building's interiors that are already in the game.. Also, I have a feeling that one of these days War Thunder is going to enalbe a cockpit/interior view of the tanks.. In that the art work is allrady done, thus I suspect the tanks cockpits will be in place before the bomber cockpits

 

Which means more $ for Ganiji and thus they will be able to hiar more people to address existing and future issues

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Just in case of steam summer sales :
http://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/39g2g9/gaijin_hiked_up_wt_pack_prices_in_anticipation_of/

 

I know not many play Wt and even less buy anything there but just in case I leave this here. Gaijin raised their prices few days ago so that they can "lower" them for summer sales on steam. 

[FuriousMeow]

Simple.. Over all it is fun!

 

That and no one has provided anything thus far that would show let alone prove that the DCS or BoS flight modling is better than War Thunders..

 

No one

 

Granted, BoS does not provide any methods to collect data to even begin to show how accurate the FMs are.. Like War Thunder does.. There is a 3rd party tool for DCS that will allow data to be collected, but as noted above, no one had provided anything that could be remotely considered proof the BoS or DCS flight modeling is better than War Thunders..

 

Which is not surprising when you consider the FACT that the math of a 6DOF flight simulation model has existed for years, decades even and that it has been implemented on the PC for decades in all sorts of languages, One of the earlier examples being the 6DOF flight simulation code of the F16 written in FORTRAN.

 

In light of that FACT, I find it hard to belive that any flight sim maker would have a hard time implementing a 6DOF flight simulation model that is vastly different from another.. math is math.

 

Thus the only real root of error is in coefficients and data put into the 6DOF flight simulation code.. ie garbage in garbage out.

 

For example..

 

Lets assume for a moment that DCS's flight model results in a 2% error with regards to real world airplane performance data..

 

Hey that is great!

 

And lets also assume that War Thunder's flight model result in a 5% error with regards to real world airplane performance data..

 

Based on that, one could make the argument that DCS is 'better'..

 

But, now take into considerating the 'game' as a whole..

 

DCS and BoS have very Very VERY limited plane sets and maps..

 

That is to say, HOW REAL can a simulation be of a WWII event using DCS or BoS?

 

Answer

 

Not that real..

 

Where as with War Thunder you can 'do more' to simulate a WWII event..

 

Ill take that over a few percentage point differences in flight modeling accuracy anyday..

 

And this argument is not new..

 

It is the SAME argument the old IL-2 users are pointing out realitive to the new IL-2 BoS and soon to be BoM..

 

Where they will suffer the older graphics but be able to choose from hundreds of planes and dozens of maps..

 

Hope that answers your question! S!

 

Actually I think I understand all to well!

 

A flight model's representation of flight, and it's accuracy thereof, isn't a percentage of matching a performance characteristic. The most basic of "flight models" that used very simple formulas matched the performance values of the approved data selection for that aircraft but they are a far cry from representing flight. Could be test data aggregated, could be a single point of reference from one book, whatever. The most basic of flight models can match climb rate, speed, duration, etc. That doesn't make them accurate. That doesn't make them good.

 

What makes them good is the detail in their analysis, the detail in the data points that are modeled. Some FMs model only one variable for the entire wing and airfoil, some model 3, and others model far more. The more modeled, yes, the better. So to say that because one models falls within a percentage of one data set, or an aggregate of data sets, closer than another doesn't mean it's better. It just means it's closer at hitting the target for the pure output of what it models. In the real world similar aircraft can perform within 10% of each other, those are known as the dogs of the squadron.

 

No, what makes a flight model more accurate, or better, is the depth at which it is modeled. The percentage of how close it models performance to one selected data, or many averaged, can show how easily it achieves the max and min values - but what matters is the entire envelope and the accuracy it holds to the entirety from takeoff to regular flight to departure of flight to landing.

Edited June 15, 2015 by FuriousMeow

[sop]

wows is open beta now bump etc enjoy