Battle of Moscow: To Buy In or Not To Buy In, THAT is the Question!

April 8, 2015

"SHOW ME TO THE GERANIUMS, MY GOOD MAN!"

Cup of tea what?

April 8, 2015

You said, "fist."

April 8, 2015

Blind people can see?

If we have seen examples but haven't heard any examples.... Is that deaf faith?

April 8, 2015

lL2 BoS Premium - 10 planes, never used before maps. Considered full game by community

IL2 BoM Premium - 10 planes, never used before maps. Considered expansion by community

MIND BLOWN!!!

April 8, 2015

That's just it....it's going to need work.....like "forever". The same as we see all the other CFS evolving. What your definition for completed is and mine....well mine is...it will never really be finished. If I enjoy it now...if I can find the good within it....then I'm going to purchase it. It's a pretty sure fact...that it's going to get better. I'm investing in that belief.... and how much time I play the game currently...which is more and more each week.

I have a friend on this forum...won't mention any names...and he's pretty critical of this game......but when he saw that I was purchasing it...rather than say...."are you kidding me" he said......he didn't have the money right now and for me to let him know how it goes. That's because I'll be in a position...having ponied up my money to actually make an "informed" critique of BOM...when it does finally come out. All that's worth it to me. Once again.....I don't fault anyone for waiting this out.....

I get a game update patch every 2 months with World of tanks and the game is free.

Most of the patches come out to help calm the whining on the forums about this and that but

with some nice graphic and mechanics updates.

Whining is on every gaming forum of this planet from what i can see.

Oh and by the way the game IS fully functional and is literally bug free and players

come by at about anywhere between 35 000 to 45 000 players to play it on the

North America server.

I am not expecting this game to be fully functional or free for that matter.

95$ Cdn is too high for me for this game.

I just wanted it in the classic DF -co-op server format with the old FMB type system

that Oleg Maddox gave us.

Remember Oleg Maddox.?

I sure do and i miss those times when Oleg Maddox was behind the development

of the game the first 4 years it came out.

Man did things move then.

I am too IL-2 old school and those times have passed.

So I am letting go

April 8, 2015

I get a game update patch every 2 months with World of tanks and the game is free.

You sir are closed minded if you want to compare the business model to World of Tanks but to each their own.

April 8, 2015

I can play this game too. You are entitled to your opinion too, but its wrong.

Pre ordering a game based on "what you have seen so far" (which is nothing playable yet for BoM) is exactly what blind faith takes.

Please point to where I called anyone stupid? No, really. I am sick of people on this forum putting words into somebody else's mouth. If you think buying something on an emotional decision is the same as being stupid, you need to educate yourself.

Well, I have to agree that your definition of blind faith is pretty narrow. I have seen some of the fantastic successes this team has had as well as some of the incredibly off putting failures as well. These are demonstrable and not terribly difficult to extrapolate from. While it does take some faith in the team, which I do, to continue development, it is hardly blind faith.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion but it does not make your opinion fact. My opinion is mostly the opposite of yours but it is not fact either. Being shrill about it isn't going to make it more right or change another's opinion for the most part. There is tone in our writing as much as some would like to deny it. Arguments are rarely won in a shouting match or by making it personal. It is the difference between argument and a mouth fight.

The only established facts, thus far, are what has been completed in BOS. Some of the failings are also factual but leave room for revision/improvement. I think both are on display for everyone here to see. They have stated their intentions. That is a fact but subject to revision as was BOS - but that is for a different thread.

As to why I will buy BOM;

I own BOS and can see where the team is trying to take us. I approve of their vision. I will get early access again which is fun for me even more than it is important in any way. I get to see the new aircraft and maps as they occur and that is a form of excitement on a nearly weekly basis through development. In short, it is FUN for me to have early access and I am willing to open my wallet to get it. It is a reasonably well informed purchase. Buying the kitten for my daughter was an emotional purchase.

That is my opinion. You are entitled to yours.

April 8, 2015

You sir are closed minded if you want to compare the business model to World of Tanks but to each their own.

I guess you just read the first sentence and flushed the rest that they are improving the game constantly.

And they actually change the game to please the masses

Well you can buy premium planes and you have the unlocks the only thing missing is the gold!

Edited April 8, 2015 by WTornado

April 8, 2015

I guess you just read the first sentence and flushed the rest that they are improving the game constantly.

And they actually change the game to please the masses

No I get it. You are so upset with this game and done with it that you would never want to keep supporting it and the only reason you stick around is because you want to proselytize to each person on the forum so you can also save them from the utter pain and madness which is the IL2 series. At first I thought maybe this guy simply has too much time on his hands and then after rereading your post I decided no, Roo5ter, you are just being negative. This man is a hero among men. He devotes his own precious time upon this earth to improve the lives of other in an utterly selfless manner. There is no gain for this individual for his actions he is simply motivated by the common good that he can produce with such actions. This man has given enough of his time to make five posts in six days on a game he absolutely hates for this community. If only half of us were as stalwart in our contributions to mankind the miracle of world peace and disappearance of world hunger would surely ensue.

Please reply,

You will just prove me more right.

April 8, 2015

I want to buy as I thought the original price was good for an entire game, but that price is steep to say the least for what is essentially an add on?

We already have the main engine so why such a high price?.

I know it is a separate game but I do not need an entire new game surely?

Please don't get me wrong I love this game but at half that price would be fair,and I personally would be much happier.

I will probably still reluctantly buy TBH though.

Edited April 8, 2015 by voncrapenhauser

April 8, 2015

I want to buy as I thought the original price was good for an entire game, but that price is steep to say the least for what is essentially an add on?

We already have the main engine so why such a high price?.

I know it is a separate game but I do not need an entire new game surely?

Until I see pictures of JW and Loft driving round in gold plated Rolls Royces I think the answer to that is fairly obvious.

In ROF people were paying 10 bucks per plane for what IS an addon but the IL2 community went ballistic at the suggestion that the new developers of IL2 might use the same format....so they did this instead.

I assume that's the price they have to charge to make a profit.

P.S we're getting three more maps for free this year

Edited April 8, 2015 by 6./JG5_Emil

April 8, 2015

lL2 BoS Premium - 10 planes, never used before maps. Considered full game by community

IL2 BoM Premium - 10 planes, never used before maps. Considered expansion by community

Capture.PNG

MIND BLOWN!!!

Il-2: BOS was a whole new engine/game, departure from the CloD setup....

Maybe you just aren't able to understand? Your mind too blown?

April 8, 2015

I actually prefer the ROF way.

I just find it hard to buy something twice that I already have, IE the main engine.

April 8, 2015

I want to buy as I thought the original price was good for an entire game, but that price is steep to say the least for what is essentially an add on?

We already have the main engine so why such a high price?.

I know it is a separate game but I do not need an entire new game surely?

Please don't get me wrong I love this game but at half that price would be fair,and I would be much happier.

I will probably still reluctantly buy TBH though.

Exactly. I guess some people aren't able to figure this out....

It's not like they are coding a whole new game.... This would pop up under DLC tab in Steam....

But if this is really what it takes to keep il-2 development alive.... Then of course we will all deal with it or bail...

April 8, 2015

Not happening at $80. I'll happily miss out on the oh-so-amazing tag that indicates I preordered and wait for a reduced price. Not after the rollercoaster that was BoS. Especially if it just ends up just being a new map, new aircraft set, and the same anemic offerings.

April 8, 2015

Really maps should be able to be developed by players too.... Adding features, planes and tuning FMs should be main goal by devs on this engine.... Steam workshop would be cool for this game as long as the official multiplayer servers have official plane data (no cheating)

Yeah I mean you miss a sale that drops price to $30 or so and feel cheated... Whats the point? If people really want to pay extra then have a donate option or include rewards that don't shut off other players from the full game

$80 for some of us is a whole week worth of food budget and you don't have any savings and are actually in debt to a credit company and a bank...

April 8, 2015

Not happening at $80. I'll happily miss out on the oh-so-amazing tag that indicates I preordered and wait for a reduced price. Not after the rollercoaster that was BoS. Especially if it just ends up just being a new map, new aircraft set, and the same anemic offerings.

Bare in mind CLOD went the opposite route of working on fixes and changes until it was 'right' before starting on another game and look what happened...they went belly up.

April 8, 2015

I actually prefer the ROF way.

I just find it hard to buy something twice that I already have, IE the main engine.

I take your point but you maybe paying for a similar or the same engine but you are getting 10 new aircraft map etc and goodbye to snow! It works out at £55 in the UK. That maybe too high for some folks. To own all the aircraft in something like DCS would cost around £500 if it's not on sale. I have all the WWII aircraft in DCS and have had nowhere near as much fun on that than I have had in BoS.

April 8, 2015

I take your point but you maybe paying for a similar or the same engine but you are getting 10 new aircraft map etc and goodbye to snow! It works out at £55 in the UK. That maybe too high for some folks. To own all the aircraft in something like DCS would cost around £500 if it's not on sale. I have all the WWII aircraft in DCS and have had nowhere near as much fun on that than I have had in BoS.

Same here and...hear hear :D

April 8, 2015

Il-2: BOS was a whole new engine/game, departure from the CloD setup....

Maybe you just aren't able to understand? Your mind too blown?

It's not a common practice to only charge full price for games in the industry if the engine has also been reworked.

This is inline with the rest of the industry and the pricing is pretty competitive for flight sims. One person even noted BoM is cheaper than Red Baron was adjusted for inflation. This is definitely cheaper than buying 10 aircraft on DCS along with having a much more fleshed out game.

Obviously the mind blown comment was semi-satirical but overall, it doesn't make sense to view this as an expansion when it is of course a standalone game without BoS dependencies.

April 8, 2015

Bare in mind CLOD went the opposite route of working on fixes and changes until it was 'right' before starting on another game and look what happened...they went belly up.

Cool, but my experience with BoS has left me utterly unwilling to contribute again. I'm not altruistic about this in the least; it's a product pure and simple. I'm not looking to support companies as a charity.

April 8, 2015

Il-2: BOS was a whole new engine/game,

-snip-

No, DigitalNature is reused from 777's previous title and as stated in some of the original Dev Diaries, content/objects from Cliffs of Dover/Battle of Moscow may/may not be ported in to their pre-existing engine.

The Cliffs of Dover engine was a new engine.

April 8, 2015

lL2 BoS Premium - 10 planes, never used before maps. Considered full game by community

IL2 BoM Premium - 10 planes, never used before maps. Considered expansion by community

Capture.PNG

MIND BLOWN!!!

Just reposting this because it makes too much sense.

No I get it. You are so upset with this game and done with it that you would never want to keep supporting it and the only reason you stick around is because you want to proselytize to each person on the forum so you can also save them from the utter pain and madness which is the IL2 series. At first I thought maybe this guy simply has too much time on his hands and then after rereading your post I decided no, Roo5ter, you are just being negative. This man is a hero among men. He devotes his own precious time upon this earth to improve the lives of other in an utterly selfless manner. There is no gain for this individual for his actions he is simply motivated by the common good that he can produce with such actions. This man has given enough of his time to make five posts in six days on a game he absolutely hates for this community. If only half of us were as stalwart in our contributions to mankind the miracle of world peace and disappearance of world hunger would surely ensue.

Please reply,

You will just prove me more right.

I want to have your babies. This is pure gold.

Il-2: BOS was a whole new engine/game, departure from the CloD setup....

Maybe you just aren't able to understand? Your mind too blown?

If you're dead set on questioning why you're paying for an engine you already have (a concept that boggles my mind), you can justify it by comparing the BoS premium price, $95, to BoM premium price, $80...Let's say the DN engine costs $15 and they subtracted that from BoM's price. Boom.

Do you think people were expecting Battlefield 4 and Battlefield: Hardline to be free since they already "paid for the engines" when they bought Battlefield 3? You guys are just making your own rules up for the industry and it makes zero sense.

Edited April 8, 2015 by AbortedMan

April 8, 2015

Cool, but my experience with BoS has left me utterly unwilling to contribute again. I'm not altruistic about this in the least; it's a product pure and simple. I'm not looking to support companies as a charity.

Yes but it wasn't cool because a. they couldn't afford to 'get it right' which is why Team Fusion spent 4 years fixing it (plus 1C dumped support for Maddox Games) and b. the same kind of complainers (I'm not saying you) were all over it like a rash and the name became dirt for several years to come (you still see people talk about being cautious after the CLOD debacle).

Flight sims aren't a big money making genre and we can either support them or watch them all die off. I'm not saying people should pre-order but look at how many negative threads there are about a sim that is pretty damn good and probably better than most of the others out there.

Yes the devs should listen to the big issues people have but Oleg used to try and please everyone and look where that ended up.

Edited April 8, 2015 by 6./JG5_Emil

April 8, 2015

No I get it. You are so upset with this game and done with it that you would never want to keep supporting it and the only reason you stick around is because you want to proselytize to each person on the forum so you can also save them from the utter pain and madness which is the IL2 series. At first I thought maybe this guy simply has too much time on his hands and then after rereading your post I decided no, Roo5ter, you are just being negative. This man is a hero among men. He devotes his own precious time upon this earth to improve the lives of other in an utterly selfless manner. There is no gain for this individual for his actions he is simply motivated by the common good that he can produce with such actions. This man has given enough of his time to make five posts in six days on a game he absolutely hates for this community. If only half of us were as stalwart in our contributions to mankind the miracle of world peace and disappearance of world hunger would surely ensue.

Please reply,

You will just prove me more right.

'' the only reason you stick around is because you want to proselytize to each person on the forum so you can also save them from the utter pain and madness which is the IL2 series.?

IL-2 1946 ,Cliffs of Dover and all of its mods work well.

I stick around because i hope for change to get the thousands of old hyperlobby players in here.

I have every ORIGINAL game of IL-2 from the first IL-2 Strumovik CD to IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad?

I have spent a decade making and hosting coops in the hyperlobby?

The old IL-2 series was a dynasty ion the hyperlobby Mr Rooster.

Tens of thousands of pilots over a span over a span of 13 years.

C.U.P is on my machine with HSFX 7 is it still on yours?I hope it is or you are missing out.

The players that like SP can go get C.U.P. and they will crap themselves when they see what is in

that mod.

I do not see many hyperlobby players in here.Not many people at all to be quite honest always you and I

and the same players.

The Hyperlobby players are still there flying full coops at night.

It is nice to see bearcat 71st_ Mastif JG 77_con and JG5 Emil and even you that were on the Hyperlobby.

Not many are here and I doubt they ever will be.

Just stating a fact about this game I am not here to save the world.

They had the winning formula they let it go.

April 8, 2015

Do you think people were expecting Battlefield 4 and Battlefield: Hardline to be free since they already "paid for the engines" when they bought Battlefield 3? You guys are just making your own rules up for the industry and it makes zero sense.

Then I told that teachin lady, "I already paid for the engine!"

Imagine this, they start selling BoM for $80 and cut BoS to $80 but neither game comes with the engine. 'Game engine sold separately.'

Can't wait to get home and compile the code for the game I bought today!

April 8, 2015

To own all the aircraft in something like DCS would cost around £500 if it's not on sale. I have all the WWII aircraft in DCS and have had nowhere near as much fun on that than I have had in BoS.

Do you really wanna compare DCS aircraft to BoS aircraft?

I´m waiting to see how it plays out - personally there are too many issues with BoS for me to pre-purchase BoM.

Edited April 8, 2015 by golani79

April 8, 2015

'' the only reason you stick around is because you want to proselytize to each person on the forum so you can also save them from the utter pain and madness which is the IL2 series.?

IL-2 1946 ,Cliffs of Dover and all of its mods work well.

I stick around because i hope for change to get the thousands of old hyperlobby players in here.

I have every ORIGINAL game of IL-2 from the first IL-2 Strumovik CD to IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad?

I have spent a decade making and hosting coops in the hyperlobby?

The old IL-2 series was a dynasty ion the hyperlobby Mr Rooster.

Tens of thousands of pilots over a span over a span of 13 years.

C.U.P is on my machine with HSFX 7 is it still on yours?I hope it is or you are missing out.

The players that like SP can go get C.U.P. and they will crap themselves when they see what is in

that mod.

I do not see many hyperlobby players in here.Not many people at all to be quite honest always you and I

and the same players.

The Hyperlobby players are still there flying full coops at night.

It is nice to see bearcat 71st_ Mastif JG 77_con and JG5 Emil and even you that were on the Hyperlobby.

Not many are here and I doubt they ever will be.

Just stating a fact about this game I am not here to save the world.

They had the winning formula they let it go.

I feel your pain, I really do.

In my opinion it was CLOD developers that 'let it go' because their sequel was the one that omitted proper HL/Co-Op support, to be fair 777 customers never had it and I think it was only when large numbers of the older IL2 players migrated across to ROF that the calls for co-ops and hyperlobby got louder within their community.

I asked once about HL and Co-Ops and was told we wouldn't get it.

Maybe they could consider a player list and in game chat or pager system so we could at least communicate in the server listing with each other....that way we could host co-op type missions in DF mode.

That last bit it totally possible by the way it's just hard to find people to fly against at short notice.

I would love an answer from the devs on my idea of the pager system/listing....would it be really time consuming or costly to implement this?

April 8, 2015

Then I told that teachin lady, "I already paid for the engine!"

Imagine this, they start selling BoM for $80 and cut BoS to $80 but neither game comes with the engine. 'Game engine sold separately.'

Can't wait to get home and compile the code for the game I bought today!

Bahaahahhaha I love this.

Unrelated:

People seem to forget the going rate for virtual aircraft these days...even in the cheapest of semi-acceptable realms of combat flight sims...

War Thunder, to get a new aircraft flat out, you'd need to spend at least $20 for the lions/eagles/wampum or whatever to buy it...or spend like a month and a half grinding for it. If time is money, then that's even more expensive.
DCS sells their single aircraft at a premium $60 to $40, $18 on rare occasion there's a sale.
CloD is stuck with the aircraft that it's been created with. TF is making their additions, but at the rate they're developing I don't think anything they add will be relevant (to most) by the time it's released. Plus, there's no guarantee it will match the quality of a dedicated game developer company.
BoS each aircraft costs $9.50 if you bought the premium, $6.25 each if you bought standard.
BoM each aircraft will cost $10 if you buy premium, and cheaper if you buy standard.

So saying this BoM is too expensive kinda doesn't make sense. Saying it's an expansion makes negative sense...now you owe me some sense.

To further put it into perspective (since I just got an email from GoG.com), The Witcher 3 is coming out soon and it's $54 on release, but you can buy the day one DLC pack for $85...and The Witcher 3 doesn't even have any aircraft in it!

~$100 is the going rate for new video games these days. You guys just don't want to accept it, but that doesn't mean the market won't move on without you.

Edited April 8, 2015 by AbortedMan

April 8, 2015

I have BOS Premium. From my point of view is a expansion but I don't care if BOM is DLC or standalone, for 80$, at this simulation level not worth it. I paid very overpriced BOS but no this time.

My wallet votes NO at unlocks, lack of SP content and other things what people "whining" around here.

Maybe I will buy at a more fair price of 35-40$.

April 8, 2015

Do you really wanna compare DCS aircraft to BoS aircraft?

Yes I do actually, you would pay 10 times as much to own around 12 aircraft, There is currently no WWII theatre, the visual range is for want of a better phase "poor" The AI are ubermen and I have had more fun flying in BoS than in DCS, but hey that's just me. I'm not denying that DCS has great flight models etc but you pay through the nose for them.

April 8, 2015

I really wish IL2 to flourish but I fear chances are somewhat slim if current policy is going to repeat itself.

Releasing BOS in state it was at release date was IMHO a mistake, heck even now is nowhere near finished to sell as a full featured game but it could pass for beta access. Anyone calling current BOS finished game, and all incoming patches 'free' has no idea what finished and polished product should look like (100$ game has to offer at least 40-50 hours of interesting and engaging SP, since 60$ games that are considered great offer at least 30 - MP and community mods are there to push in numbers over 1000 game hours and many games did this already).

Moving to BOM while BOS is still not a good sim to enjoy on your free afternoon in offline is another mistake.

Die hard fans will preorder. I might or might not do that with BOM, still undecided even though I am in agreement that vote with wallets is needed to teach some folks in gaming industry that selling alphas is not ok, but I am not sure I wish to make that statement on WW2 title, I just might push that on everything else from now on, especially FPS games.

But like I said, for common casual customer that is not true IL2 fan from very beginnings, moving to developing BOM while BOS is lacking a lot in content is a bad message. So even if I decide to buy once again product that will even at release lack most of the content I expect, it will only be because I am way too soft on flight sims devs, but I don't think general public feels the same and I damn well know why, hope 777 gets it too...

April 8, 2015

Bahaahahhaha I love this.

Unrelated:

People seem to forget the going rate for virtual aircraft these days...even in the cheapest of semi-acceptable realms of combat flight sims...

War Thunder, to get a new aircraft flat out, you'd need to spend at least $20 for the lions/eagles/wampum or whatever to buy it...or spend like a month and a half grinding for it. If time is money, then that's even more expensive.

DCS sells their single aircraft at a premium $60 to $40, $18 on rare occasion there's a sale.

CloD is stuck with the aircraft that it's been created with. TF is making their additions, but at the rate they're developing I don't think anything they add will be relevant (to most) by the time it's released. Plus, there's no guarantee it will match the quality of a dedicated game developer company.

BoS each aircraft costs $9.50 if you bought the premium, $6.25 each if you bought standard.

BoM each aircraft will cost $10 if you buy premium, and cheaper if you buy standard.

So saying this BoM is too expensive kinda doesn't make sense. Saying it's an expansion makes negative sense...now you owe me some sense.

To further put it into perspective (since I just got an email from GoG.com), The Witcher 3 is coming out soon and it's $54 on release, but you can buy the day one DLC pack for $85...and The Witcher 3 doesn't even have any aircraft in it!

~$100 is the going rate for new video games these days. You guys just don't want to accept it, but that doesn't mean the market won't move on without you.

War Thunder IS free if you want it to be. Unlocking is what you get free. Funny, pay to unlock stuff....sounds familiar.

DCS sells aircraft. Buy what you want, don't buy what you don't want. Much more into each plane than other sims, including BoS. + mods. Still a WIP.

CLOD $10 + TF mods gets you a lot for your money. + mods.

BoS/BoM gets you a plane set, a map, small MP, horrible campaign, no mods.

And Witcher 3 will have 16 free DLCs, and you can pay for the next 2 EXPANSIONs (not dlc), that come out October, and one next year. Hardly day one DLC. Maybe read your emails better?

Value for your money is a personal preference. The way BoS is going currently....I wouldn't play it much even if it was free to play model.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Vaxxtx

April 8, 2015

Value for your money is a personal preference. The way BoS is going currently....I wouldn't play it much even if it was free to play model.

...but complaining about the game on the game's forums is a BLAST, AMIRITE?!

April 8, 2015

...but complaining about the game on the game's forums is a BLAST, AMIRITE?!

Wait wait wait dude, let me get this! Ok, I have a carefully constructed post created in advance for this situation. See below:

No I get it. You are so upset with this game and done with it that you would never want to keep supporting it and the only reason you stick around is because you want to proselytize to each person on the forum so you can also save them from the utter pain and madness which is the IL2 series. At first I thought maybe this guy simply has too much time on his hands and then after rereading your post I decided no, Roo5ter, you are just being negative. This man is a hero among men. He devotes his own precious time upon this earth to improve the lives of other in an utterly selfless manner. There is no gain for this individual for his actions he is simply motivated by the common good that he can produce with such actions. This man has given enough of his time to make five posts in six days on a game he absolutely hates for this community. If only half of us were as stalwart in our contributions to mankind the miracle of world peace and disappearance of world hunger would surely ensue.

Please reply,

You will just prove me more right.

April 8, 2015

You always were a knob, ace.

I got your knob right here [grabs package]

April 8, 2015

Been in the gutter for while but I let it go on. That's enough.

Jason

Battle of Moscow: To Buy In or Not To Buy In, THAT is the Question!

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