Battle of Moscow: To Buy In or Not To Buy In, THAT is the Question!

April 8, 2015

You had me salivating to go try that server, till I saw that last sentence above. What is Roo5ter doing pounding German armor columns with a Stuka?

I've had to suspend a lot of disbelief to try to get through the BoS SP campaign missions, but I even after all that I don't think I could stretch it quite as far as escorting Stukas on friendly fire missions

crap, typo. He either pounds German armor in his Sturmovik, or the Defenders of Stalingrad with his Stuka...my bad. But you get my point?

April 8, 2015

Long time Flight sim supporter, ex Oleg/Luthier fanboy here. BOS's promise of a great single player experience has fallen short of my expectations.

I'm sorry but I got a better sense of immersion from the Dgen campaigns in Forgotten Battles. The only reason I played the single player was unlocks and I haven't played in a couple of months now. I'm gonna wait for release and see if any improvement is made to the single player

Custom Campaign Difficulty (Silent Hunter did this with xp it's not alot to ask)

The single player player content could actually stay the same the problem is poor presentation. I don't like that I go into the campagin and get to choose what stage to play and what type of mission I fly in my chosen aircraft, breaks any sense of progression and "role-play".

These are just my feelings and I understand this post is not going to make the devs do anything.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Scarecrow

April 8, 2015

So just because they don't share your view that means that they are not going into this with open eyes? That is ridiculous. By now .. especially if they already have BoS everyone who decides to buy BoM knows exactly what they are getting.. Unlike some folks though they just have faith that what they are buying will evolve into something greater than it is.. and they don't see it as it is as something that is bad enough for them to not support.. They don't expect the devs to "show them" anything.. For them.. and I am one of "them" .. for the record.. this team has shown me all I need to know and I like what I have seen so far.. I believe that that they want to make a quality flight sim that I will like and find enjoyable.. They will make missteps along the way... as they have in the past.. but based on what BoS is now.. and their stated goals and the diligence to which they have worked to bring BoS to where it is .. I have no doubt that 3 years from now we will see a well done, multi theater sim .. with a varied plane set and an active MP and SP community.

So? I don't see any of that. I would say wishful thinking on your part. Nothing wrong with that.

And no, my view is that if someone can throw money at something based on assumptions and a to-do list, with no guarantee or promise that it will be met, its an emotional purchasing decision and not a knowledge based one. Blind faith. As in eyes closed. I did it once with BoS, and learned a lesson.

For instance, I love the Witcher series, and the developers behind it. Top notch studio, top notch title. I AM planning to buy Witcher 3. Why would I pre order it now? No point. Most likely it will be a hit like usual, but what if it isn't? What did buying it now do for me? Not a damn thing. Now take BoM. Obviously people had issues with BoS, yet some of the same people are thinking that throwing money at it will make it better when it should be the other way around.

That's my point. Now since my view is different from yours, do I get another paragraph telling me how wrong my view is? I always love paragraphs.

April 8, 2015

So? I don't see any of that. I would say wishful thinking on your part. Nothing wrong with that.

And no, my view is that if someone can throw money at something based on assumptions and a to-do list, with no guarantee or promise that it will be met, its an emotional purchasing decision and not a knowledge based one. Blind faith. As in eyes closed. I did it once with BoS, and learned a lesson.

For instance, I love the Witcher series, and the developers behind it. Top notch studio, top notch title. I AM planning to buy Witcher 3. Why would I pre order it now? No point. Most likely it will be a hit like usual, but what if it isn't? What did buying it now do for me? Not a damn thing. Now take BoM. Obviously people had issues with BoS, yet some of the same people are thinking that throwing money at it will make it better when it should be the other way around.

That's my point. Now since my view is different from yours, do I get another paragraph telling me how wrong my view is? I always love paragraphs.

It must suck having your opinion always be made for you...and by the masses, even. Yikes. I'd hate to live in your world. Edited April 8, 2015 by AbortedMan

April 8, 2015

Will wait till the 50% sale

April 8, 2015

It must suck having your opinion always be made for you...and by the masses, even. Yikes. I'd hate to live in your world.

Reading comprehension problems?

Knock it off!

Edited April 8, 2015 by Bearcat
Antagoniziong another member

April 8, 2015

I will wait. I think 80$ is alot of money.

Im still kinda disappointed by the SP part of this Sim. Boring, Repetitive and without immersion.

Unless this gets worked on and made alot better im not buying !

April 8, 2015

Long time Flight sim supporter, ex Oleg/Luthier fanboy here. BOS's promise of a great single player experience has fallen short of my expectations.

I'm sorry but I got a better sense of immersion from the Dgen campaigns in Forgotten Battles. The only reason I played the single player was unlocks and I haven't played in a couple of months now. I'm gonna wait for release and see if any improvement is made to the single player

Custom Campaign Difficulty (Silent Hunter did this with xp it's not alot to ask)

The single player player content could actually stay the same the problem is poor presentation. I don't like that I go into the campagin and get to choose what stage to play and what type of mission I fly in my chosen aircraft, breaks any sense of progression and "role-play".

These are just my feelings and I understand this post is not going to make the devs do anything.

Scarecrow I agree with you 100%.... But I am still hopeful ! that's why I bought BOM ! ~S~

April 8, 2015

Some people are happy to preorder things, others are not. No one is wrong. Either way it's just a preference.

There is a lot of information about the game available now, certainly enough to form a reasonable impression of how the game is likely to be.

Beyond that, to preorder currently requires that you have BOS, which is obviously very similar, thus giving a potential BOM customer an extremely clear idea of how the game will look, feel, perform, and what it will feature. Hence my comment about 'eyes wide open'.

I don't dispute that some people are buying the game based on how they feel about it or simming or the developers. People buy stuff for all kinds of reasons, especially when it's their hobby. So what? It's their money to spend as they like. It doesn't mean they're going in blind.

April 8, 2015

S!

I can list a few reasons why I will not to buy it. Your own mileage may vary. If liking it, then good for you. No need to agree or argue about my POV. Here it goes: campaign mode will be the same with "unlocks" and "pilot levels", imaginary medals and rewards "to honor real heroes", no squadron affiliations or pilot rosters, no feeling of being there due 90% empty wasteland(action spawned around your plane and certain waypoints only), infinite amount of nameless pilots and planes, Moscow nowhere to be seen even Germans knocked at the gates, limited amount of action due the engine bringing your monster gaming rig to it's knees, repetitive, predictable and stupid AI, no graphical settings except presets, no custom difficulty etc. Same as in BoS with a different name. No 80€ from me, thank you.

April 8, 2015

The way I look at it is like this, our options in WWII flight sims are very limited.

We have the other main 4:

War Thunder (which in my view is not a serious flight sim)

CLOD (which have divided the community or so it seems?)

DCS (which doesn't currently have a WWII theatre to fly in)

1946 (see CLOD above)

Then we have BoS :

Which is far from perfect and there is still a lot about it that I don't like. The SP experience is one of my main gripes about it and there are other irritating little things I don't like about it too.

Saying that though, we have a perfectly flyable and playable game. Because of the lack of SP content I have started to play in MP more and more and I have to say I'm having a lot of fun doing it.

Is it perfect no, but what other WWII sim out there is?

I was given BoS as a gift so I wasn't onboard from the very beginning but I pre-ordered BoM because I would like to add my little bit of support to this series for it continue and hopefully improve more and more.

If it doesn't sell well then it's pretty obvious that development will probably cease.

I genuinely think that the producer and Dev's are dedicated to the game and are doing the best they can to produce a great WWII flight sim.

(look at the amount of updates to improve the game we have had over the last few months)

We have more aircraft, maps, Summer, Autumn and possible 3rd party intervention to improve SP to look forward too. That may not be enough for some but it is for me.

April 8, 2015

So? I don't see any of that. I would say wishful thinking on your part. Nothing wrong with that.

And no, my view is that if someone can throw money at something based on assumptions and a to-do list, with no guarantee or promise that it will be met, its an emotional purchasing decision and not a knowledge based one. Blind faith. As in eyes closed. I did it once with BoS, and learned a lesson.

For instance, I love the Witcher series, and the developers behind it. Top notch studio, top notch title. I AM planning to buy Witcher 3. Why would I pre order it now? No point. Most likely it will be a hit like usual, but what if it isn't? What did buying it now do for me? Not a damn thing. Now take BoM. Obviously people had issues with BoS, yet some of the same people are thinking that throwing money at it will make it better when it should be the other way around.

That's my point. Now since my view is different from yours, do I get another paragraph telling me how wrong my view is? I always love paragraphs.

My point is... when you say that folks who are buying into BoM are going in with eyes closed you are wrong. You are entitled to your opinion of course.. but it is wrong.. since you have no idea what the motivation of anyone who has decided to preorder BoM is aside from their stated reasons... and most of them have said.. to paraphrase... "I know xxx but I have chosen to buy because xxx" which is not eyes wide shut.. it is eyes wide open.. Blind faith? Wishful thinking? I can't speak directly for anyone else.. but I am certain that there are many who agree with me.. It is not blind faith.. My purchase was based on what I have seen so far. It was based on where BoS was in October and where it is today. If the unlocks were still there as they were I probably would not have bought BoM at this point... but I chose to buy BoM based on what I see so far.. nothing blind about it.. and I am sure I am not alone. It is insulting to insinuate that people are spending their hard earned money blindly without thinking, especially when they have already experienced BoS .. warts and all from the beginning.

That is my point.

April 8, 2015

The way I look at it is like this, our options in WWII flight sims are very limited.

We have the other main 4:

War Thunder (which in my view is not a serious flight sim)

CLOD (which have divided the community or so it seems?)

DCS (which doesn't currently have a WWII theatre to fly in)

1946 (see CLOD above)

Then we have BoS :

Which is far from perfect and there is still a lot about it that I don't like. The SP experience is one of my main gripes about it and there are other irritating little things I don't like about it too.

Saying that though, we have a perfectly flyable and playable game. Because of the lack of SP content I have started to play in MP more and more and I have to say I'm having a lot of fun doing it.

Is it perfect no, but what other WWII sim out there is?

I was given BoS as a gift so I wasn't onboard from the very beginning but I pre-ordered BoM because I would like to add my little bit of support to this series for it continue and hopefully improve more and more.

If it doesn't sell well then it's pretty obvious that development will probably cease.

I genuinely think that the producer and Dev's are dedicated to the game and are doing the best they can to produce a great WWII flight sim.

(look at the amount of updates to improve the game we have had over the last few months)

We have more aircraft, maps, Summer, Autumn and possible 3rd party intervention to improve SP to look forward too. That may not be enough for some but it is for me.

All games what you told have one thing together ( exclude BoS ) = Mod Support

The part from all what I hate the most is if something get announce inside the Developer Diary and share this with everyone over the year who ask for this and then canceled it quietly because they change their mind. This is a good example how much we can trust them. How much we can trust the Developer Diary. For me personal this was a big lie that I never forget. I hate to say this word but it is the truth that hurts.

A great SP I can build myself or have fun online with a SP Multiplayer Campaign against AI or other players. But against other players we need a higher player count not more server since we have huge maps. How long we need to wait for the 64 or 100 player count? Why they restricted the player count if we run our own powerful server? There are many question but no answer, why?

I see not many reason to look forward? Because it is not easy to forget what happend. And who can say that is not happen again? Nobody I known. I just wish to have the days back from BoS Early Access were we had a lot fun and looked positive into the future from this beautiful sim before they started to.......................................

April 8, 2015

I've bought it because I'm interested in WWII and WWI aviation and there are only about four or five games which I find at all satisfying. The 60 or 70% of perfection which it seems likely to offer (if it is like BoS) is better than the 0% I'd get from not buying it.

My point is... when you say that folks who are buying into BoM are going in with eyes closed you are wrong. You are entitled to your opinion of course.. but it is wrong.. since you have no idea what the motivation of anyone who has decided to preorder BoM is aside from their stated reasons... and most of them have said.. to paraphrase... "I know xxx but I have chosen to buy because xxx" which is not eyes wide shut.. it is eyes wide open.. Blind faith? Wishful thinking? I can't speak directly for anyone else.. but I am certain that there are many who agree with me.. It is not blind faith.. My purchase was based on what I have seen so far. It was based on where BoS was in October and where it is today. If the unlocks were still there as they were I probably would not have bought BoM at this point... but I chose to buy BoM based on what I see so far.. nothing blind about it.. and I am sure I am not alone. It is insulting to insinuate that people are spending their hard earned money blindly without thinking, especially when they have already experienced BoS .. warts and all from the beginning.

That is my point.

And a good point, too. I don't like people calling me stupid because I don't think like them!

April 8, 2015

What is Roo5ter doing pounding German armor columns with a Stuka?

HAHA this Roo5ter guy must be a dumb^@#!!!

April 8, 2015

My point is... when you say that folks who are buying into BoM are going in with eyes closed you are wrong. You are entitled to your opinion of course.. but it is wrong.. since you have no idea what the motivation of anyone who has decided to preorder BoM is aside from their stated reasons... and most of them have said.. to paraphrase... "I know xxx but I have chosen to buy because xxx" which is not eyes wide shut.. it is eyes wide open.. Blind faith? Wishful thinking? I can't speak directly for anyone else.. but I am certain that there are many who agree with me.. It is not blind faith.. My purchase was based on what I have seen so far. It was based on where BoS was in October and where it is today. If the unlocks were still there as they were I probably would not have bought BoM at this point... but I chose to buy BoM based on what I see so far.. nothing blind about it.. and I am sure I am not alone. It is insulting to insinuate that people are spending their hard earned money blindly without thinking, especially when they have already experienced BoS .. warts and all from the beginning.

That is my point.

I can play this game too. You are entitled to your opinion too, but its wrong.

Pre ordering a game based on "what you have seen so far" (which is nothing playable yet for BoM) is exactly what blind faith takes.

And a good point, too. I don't like people calling me stupid because I don't think like them!

Please point to where I called anyone stupid? No, really. I am sick of people on this forum putting words into somebody else's mouth. If you think buying something on an emotional decision is the same as being stupid, you need to educate yourself.

April 8, 2015

I've bought it because I'm interested in WWII and WWI aviation and there are only about four or five games which I find at all satisfying. The 60 or 70% of perfection which it seems likely to offer (if it is like BoS) is better than the 0% I'd get from not buying it.

Yes indeed, I have enjoyed ROF very much and have every plane and field mod but have only ever played it in SP. BoS is not perfect and because of lack of SP have started to play MP more and more. We know it will never appease everyone but IMHO is a pretty good WWII flight sim.

I see not many reason to look forward? Because it is not easy to forget what happend

I understand your frustration but things change and therefore priorities are changed, I am not happy with certain aspects of the game but you can't deny that there have been a large number of updates to try to address the various gripes that we as a community have. Not everyone is going to be pleased and that is understandable. I think all we can do is look forward because if we don't the game will cease, as I said our options are limited when looking for decent WWII flight sims.. I am looking forward to flying the Ju 88 and the Bf 110 over summer maps and while this game is not perfect its one of the better WWII sims out there in my view.

Edited April 8, 2015 by OriginalCustard

April 8, 2015

Some people are happy to preorder things, others are not. No one is wrong. Either way it's just a preference.

Woa, woa, woa... slow down there, FSM.

Just trying to wrap my head around this manifesto...

*I* pre-ordered... which immediately puts pre-ordering in the "right" category... correct? Therefore, when someone does not pre-order... aka... does the opposite of what I did... they have to be wrong. Right?

I ain't some kind of theoretical physician or mathmagician or any other of them things what they give you on your name what says you been to a learnin place, but you are challenging my very existence right now.

Taken to its logical conclusion, this could dismantle years of filibuster arguments with my wife... it would mean that I won them simply based on how loud I could be, coupled with my incredible stamina in speaking at a raised volume.

Edited April 8, 2015 by [TWB]80hd

April 8, 2015

Pre ordering a game based on "what you have seen so far" (which is nothing playable yet for BoM) is exactly what blind faith takes.

Hi Vaxxtx I get what you are saying but there is that old adage "You pays your money and you takes your choice" I respect others viewpoints but sometimes without having a little blind faith we may as well just give up and forget about a decent game in this genre.

When all is said and done, buying into to BoM is paying the wages of the dev's to carry on working on it so that we may end up with a decent WWII flight sim.

For a game like this to continue everybody knows that it will need support from the community that plays it. Will this be the sim everybody wants..very doubtful but without further funding it won't be a sim at all.

Regards

OC

Edited April 8, 2015 by OriginalCustard

April 8, 2015

The single player player content could actually stay the same the problem is poor presentation. I don't like that I go into the campagin and get to choose what stage to play and what type of mission I fly in my chosen aircraft, breaks any sense of progression and "role-play".

These are just my feelings and I understand this post is not going to make the devs do anything.

Yes....I feel the same. I'm not sure about some of the thought process as far as marketing the SP goes.

Edited April 8, 2015 by JagdNeun

April 8, 2015

@[TWB]80hd I see your Thorgrim

And raise you a Conan!

April 8, 2015

They should add 'Merica, cause 'Merica the best.

Plus I wanna shoot down some virtual [Edited].... GOSHDARN YOU MITSUBISHI!!!

EDITED BY FSM: IT'S A FAMILY SHOW.

Edited by BC : Please do not use such ethnically offensive terms here.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Bearcat

April 8, 2015

I actually would like to support the game and I would love to have fun with it as I had with Il2 1946.

My problem is still, although I really tried & keep trying, the game didnt really picked me up unti now.

It is great to fly over the wide snowy open and enjoy the lighitng anf graphics, but still it doesnt picks me up.

Maybe this will change sometime after some patches, but so far, I fear ,I wont give my support for BoM.

April 8, 2015

I'll not preorder BoM. I will be happy to buy it, when it meets my expectations at some point in the future. Somehow my investments in unreleased WW2 flight sims have not returned what I wanted, so I'll hold out on this one.

April 8, 2015

Pre ordering a game based on "what you have seen so far" (which is nothing playable yet for BoM) is exactly what blind faith takes.

What you try to say is: " BoM is already funded with or without our money they do BoM" That same happends with BoS. BoS was already funded what Jason said many times that BoS is not a crowdfunding game that need our money now.

April 8, 2015

Pre ordering a game based on "what you have seen so far" (which is nothing playable yet for BoM) is exactly what blind faith takes.

Ordering something based on the record of the company making the product is not blind faith. Blind faith would be ordering something from a company that you know nothing about.

April 8, 2015

After 7 pages I feel this thread needs a little of this

April 8, 2015

Ordering something based on the record of the company making the product is not blind faith. Blind faith would be ordering something from a company that you know nothing about.

Not the way I see it. As I stated already...

For instance, I love the Witcher series, and the developers behind it. Top notch studio, top notch title. I AM planning to buy Witcher 3. Why would I pre order it now? No point. Most likely it will be a hit like usual, but what if it isn't? What did buying it now do for me? Not a damn thing. Now take BoM. Obviously people had issues with BoS, yet some of the same people are thinking that throwing money at it will make it better when it should be the other way around.

Just because the developer of this particular title are known to be great in terms of product, communication, DRM-free, etc. etc. does not mean their next title will be to my liking. Most likely it will, but I have not played it. Their track record is great, but I have not seen the finished product of their latest...because its not out.

You know MS had a great series and a great following of their Flight Sims......what happened to the last title? Oh...

April 8, 2015

Honestly the only reason I would preorder..... Is to play the new content sooner and HOPEFULLY make the devs even more eager to make the game.better

I'm only gonna pay $80 if I get EVERYTHING.... screw paying $20 a plane afterwards..... That is retarded.

Edited April 8, 2015 by 361fundahl

April 8, 2015

Not the way I see it. As I stated already...

When you make up your own definitions you can see it any way you want. In your case "blind" apparently means not being able to see into the future.

April 8, 2015

I can play this game too. You are entitled to your opinion too, but its wrong.

Pre ordering a game based on "what you have seen so far" (which is nothing playable yet for BoM) is exactly what blind faith takes.

Please point to where I called anyone stupid? No, really. I am sick of people on this forum putting words into somebody else's mouth. If you think buying something on an emotional decision is the same as being stupid, you need to educate yourself.

Be surprised but some of the people here have the ability to read inbetween the lines...

April 8, 2015

And $80 is still what I consider expensive for an expansion pack to the new il2 engine after I already pre-ordered BOS full price... And still don't have all the planes.....

It's like battlefield hard line or counterstrike..... Those games are more like expansion packs and I wouldn't buy hard line for more than $20..... But I respect IL2 more than that. I want it to reach 1946 status and beyond!

Another funny one is Call of Duty. The first one was great, and every one since then has been like a expansion pack with slight graphical differences. I still can't believe so many people bought the same.game for full price every year....

April 8, 2015

I´m willing to buy it, but I´ll wait until campaign is deeply improved. I know mp is important in this kind of games, but for me sp is more.

I love this sim, but there´s still some work to do with BOS.

April 8, 2015

Yeah the campaign system isn't dynamic... Its a quick mission builder with limits...

April 8, 2015

I can play this game too. You are entitled to your opinion too, but its wrong.

Pre ordering a game based on "what you have seen so far" (which is nothing playable yet for BoM) is exactly what blind faith takes.

Please point to where I called anyone stupid? No, really. I am sick of people on this forum putting words into somebody else's mouth. If you think buying something on an emotional decision is the same as being stupid, you need to educate yourself.

A little disingenuous....perhaps you can show me where you suggested either by tone or content that you are suggesting that people who are acting on blind faith are cleverer or more aware than you

April 8, 2015

A little disingenuous....perhaps you can show me where you suggested either by tone or content that you are suggesting that people who are acting on blind faith are cleverer or more aware than you

You go fist. Where did I say anyone was stupid?

April 8, 2015

I shouldn't have bothered...and I hope "you go fist" isn't an insult!

April 8, 2015

You said, "fist."

April 8, 2015

I shouldn't have bothered...

-snip-

Are you sure that you "shouldn't have bothered" because you found out that you couldn't quote him..? And that maybe, just maybe, you were absorbing the context of what he said the way you wanted to because as you stated...

-snip-

I don't think like them!

April 8, 2015

Are you sure that you "shouldn't have bothered" because you found out that you couldn't quote him..? And that maybe, just maybe, you were absorbing the context of what he said the way you wanted to because as you stated...

Quite sure thanks!

Battle of Moscow: To Buy In or Not To Buy In, THAT is the Question!

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