How to Attract New Players - Revisited

[Rolling_Thunder]

The best way to attract new players is to have lots of options.  You need SP and MP.  You need flight models from full real to arcade style.  You need good graphics.  You need lots of maps.  You need lots of aircraft.  You need a stats system that encourages competition.  I don't know how you'd do that for SP, but I think you have to figure something out.

Dude you just described warthunder.

The best way to attract new players is to stop trying to be all the other games rolled into 1.

How about some originality. Reward team play. Air combat isn't about the individual. Stats encourage the individual to go chasing after the rape train with no regard for their team mates or the objective. If there has to be a scoring system base it on team work. Mission objectives. The reason every server, you go into these days, is airquake is that all anybody cares about is getting on the score sheet. It's boring and dull. May as well play war thunder. It's free.

[LAL_Luny]

I'll be brief :

 

Teach our kids to enjoy that kind of games...

Edited April 3, 2015 by UF_Luny

[AbortedMan]

The easiest thing they could do is simply roll back the graphics options to what they once were.

But for whatever reason, they do not seem to be open to doing this.

I'm so flummoxed by constant requests for graphics options...what exactly is it do people think they can change that will magically make their FPS skyrocket that you can't change now? Being able to disable SSAO won't turn a GTX 460 into a GTX 980. If a system is struggling to run the game, tiny tweaks aren't going to make a huge difference that will justify the risks and bullshit that the devs would have to deal with. It's up to the user to maintain their hardware performance curve with upgrades and proper system management.

 

 

Crowdfund gogogo.  

 

We are long overdue for something of the sort are we not?

 

I would love a super gritty story on one of the German aces.

"The Mighty Eighth" - Steven Spielberg and Tom Hank's newest project in the style of Band of Brothers: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/hbo-developing-third-wwii-miniseries-413632

 

EDIT: Apparently there's also a movie in production by the same name by a different director. I'm sure one of them will change the title before release. Here's a teaser:

 

Edited April 3, 2015 by AbortedMan

[AvengerSeawolf]

The best way to attract new players is to have lots of options.  You need SP and MP.  You need flight models from full real to arcade style.  You need good graphics.  You need lots of maps.  You need lots of aircraft.  You need a stats system that encourages competition.  I don't know how you'd do that for SP, but I think you have to figure something out.

Yes I agree. then is marketing.

Just one epic movie highlighting air combat in WWII.....would have the younger generation fired up....As it is right now....most don't have a clue as to what happened in WWII, nor do they care.  It's a sign of the times......

 

You had "Enemy at the Gates" and the sniper sims came out....."Band of Brothers" and you had Brothers in Arms.. Hell's Highway.....Das Boot....and you had "Silent Hunter"....."Blue Max" and you had "Red Baron"......."Fast and Furious" and they're into cars......WWII is fading away with the veterans that fought there....my father included, and he is gone now as well.  This is one reason I fund projects like BOS and BOM.

 

Regarding SP and Career tracking......sorry but it's an important point.....there needs to be a story line....a feeling of belonging to a unit, a time in history.  I will leave at that... 

 Agree to that too. that's how it is.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I get a solid 60 fps nearly all the time with 2560x1600 resolution. I would like my expensive graphics card to be put to use.

 

Draw distance is ridiculously low and can be downright ugly at times. If people want to mess with their settings that should be up to them, the community usually come up with tricks and tweaks that improve performance and since when did the Devs of any game especially IL2 series get involved in individual's problems??

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I think good 30, 60 and 90 second trailers for BOM should absolutely be tied to the HBO series, The Mighty Eighth. HBO often produces better stuff than big big screen companies. Tom and Steve have a pretty good track record at HBO. Band of Brothers and From the Earth to the Moon were fantastic. They both have a deep appreciation for WWII history (within the confines of what they can do in Hollywood).

 

And the series will be very accessible to people around the world.

 

It would be a huge miss to not do so on these American shores anyway.

 

*please, please, please don't start the 'Muricans won the war diatribes. I know my history. This is strictly from a marketing/customer base point of view for the sim.

Edited April 3, 2015 by HerrMurf

[[KWN]T-oddball]

I get a solid 60 fps nearly all the time with 2560x1600 resolution. I would like my expensive graphics card to be put to use.

 

Draw distance is ridiculously low and can be downright ugly at times. If people want to mess with their settings that should be up to them, the community usually come up with tricks and tweaks that improve performance and since when did the Devs of any game especially IL2 series get involved in individual's problems??

 

in ARMA3 if you put the draw distance high a lot of people would end paiting the frames in oils faster than the system could render them, I suspect that is why the DEV's locked that .

[AbortedMan]

I get a solid 60 fps nearly all the time with 2560x1600 resolution. I would like my expensive graphics card to be put to use.

 

Draw distance is ridiculously low and can be downright ugly at times. If people want to mess with their settings that should be up to them, the community usually come up with tricks and tweaks that improve performance and since when did the Devs of any game especially IL2 series get involved in individual's problems??

When the unholy shitstorm of tinkerers are complaining that they broke their game after changing an unsupported graphic setting or the critics latch onto something that doesn't look representative of the product the developers meant it to look like due to said tweaks start filling their customer support queue and forums is when the devs of any game get involved in individual's problems.

 

Also, the draw distance was unlimited at one point during testing of the Stalingrad map, but it affected too many things system wise for the benchmark of systems the developers were aiming for. If you keep the option for unlimited draw distance, then the people that have systems that cannot handle that will be at a severe disadvantage. It's the old paradox that War Thunder's ground forces foliage rendering is currently facing, and it's a huge problem.

 

I agree that it would be awesome to have everything rendered, but there are certain things that need to be sacrificed to ensure that the widest audience can participate in your product. Sadly, this has bled into other poor decisions, but for equal rendering distances across all platforms I am thankful...and I have a powerhouse system that can run the game at 60fps at triple screen 5760x1080.

Edited April 3, 2015 by AbortedMan

[BlitzPig_EL]

AoA pretty much covered it.  To have financial viability you have to have the sim accessible to the Air Quake crowd.  Who cares of they don't fly the way we like?  We don't have to fly on those types of servers, just get them in the door and let them pay the fare so we can still have what we want, otherwise the hard core air combat simulation will be extinct, and sooner than we think.

 

Also a sim must be totally scalable, and have every setting, graphical or gameplay option, that can be adjusted individually, no presets.

 

For example, I could get the majority of the guys I used to fly with to come back to BoS right now if I could have external views for the pilot's aircraft only, have your aircraft, and ONLY your aircraft appear on the mini-map, all other settings being "full difficulty", and have the ability to host the session myself without a dedicated server.

 

How difficult could that possibly be?

[6./ZG26_Emil]

When the unholy shitstorm of tinkerers are complaining that they broke their game after changing an unsupported graphic setting or the critics latch onto something that doesn't look representative of the product the developers meant it to look like due to said tweaks start filling their customer support queue and forums is when the devs of any game get involved in individual's problems. 

 

But we can have presets plus the options, if tinkering causes issues you just have to click one of the presets and it resets everything.

 

This would be the first time I've heard of any game having the options removed for that reason and that is what the forums are for.

[AbortedMan]

AoA pretty much covered it.  To have financial viability you have to have the sim accessible to the Air Quake crowd.  Who cares of they don't fly the way we like?  We don't have to fly on those types of servers, just get them in the door and let them pay the fare so we can still have what we want, otherwise the hard core air combat simulation will be extinct, and sooner than we think.

 

Also a sim must be totally scalable, and have every setting, graphical or gameplay option, that can be adjusted individually, no presets.

 

For example, I could get the majority of the guys I used to fly with to come back to BoS right now if I could have external views for the pilot's aircraft only, have your aircraft, and ONLY your aircraft appear on the mini-map, all other settings being "full difficulty", and have the ability to host the session myself without a dedicated server.

 

How difficult could that possibly be?

I agree that there should be more difficulty options, but how difficult is it to just open up your own dserver.exe and have your friends join? You're clicking the exact same amount of buttons, just in a different order than you would in RoF to start a "room".

 

 

But we can have presets plus the options, if tinkering causes issues you just have to click one of the presets and it resets everything.

 

This would be the first time I've heard of any game having the options removed for that reason and that is what the forums are for.

The presets were instated to ensure that everyone was getting the same experience gameplay wise. My mind is blown away at how much weight is being put on this graphics options thing...people act like they're going to be playing a completely different game or something if they could turn SSAO on/off independently. I think at this point everyone is just bitching about it because they don't want to back down and look silly for bitching about it for so long.

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

AoA pretty much covered it.  To have financial viability you have to have the sim accessible to the Air Quake crowd.  Who cares of they don't fly the way we like?  We don't have to fly on those types of servers, just get them in the door and let them pay the fare so we can still have what we want, otherwise the hard core air combat simulation will be extinct, and sooner than we think.

That sums it up nicely IMHO..

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I've not really put a lot of weight on it personally as people like me who fly high don't notice it as much but after testing a ground attack mission where I had to fly an IL2 it was a different story. I would like to increase the draw distance because my card can handle it with ease and I imagine most people who spend a small fortune on their graphics cards are the same, we like to extract as much bang for our buck....or justify throwing money on a fire :D

 

I think when the dust settles they'll add more settings again.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Regarding presets,

 

I think having a FEW more clickable options is a decent idea.

 

Click it, it works or it doesn't. Leave it or unclick it as you like.

 

I do not, however, condone a free for all in that area either. I don't think the DEV's are gonna go there for a while any way you slice it but I've been wrong a few times. Look at some of my early Fw posts.

[Bearcat]

The best way to attract new players is to have lots of options.  You need SP and MP.  You need flight models from full real to arcade style.  You need good graphics.  You need lots of maps.  You need lots of aircraft.  You need a stats system that encourages competition.  I don't know how you'd do that for SP, but I think you have to figure something out.

 

I agree with most of this.. although I don't think you need lots of maps and planes initially.. just well rendered ones.. Stats for SP much like what is in IL2 now would be good..

 

If I'm the producer of a game I'm not going to put a lot of money into a campaign.  I would provide all the resources for the community to produce a campaign, but I would not do it.  It costs too much and the data indicates that there is very little return.

 

I agree... and this touches on the one here to for unmentioned aspect of attracting new players.. and that is community... One of the things that made IL2 so popular was the community.. but even then there were still those who avoided it like the plague and stayed in their MSCFS/AH/FA universe.

 

Unlocks should simply just be thrown in the dustbin of bad ideas so they can be forgotten about asap. If/when we get a PWCG type deal this would be unnecessary as you could get assigned different aircraft and loadouts by the 'squadron commander' in each mission...I imagine that would float the boat of many offliners. For they onliners they are just hated.

 

Agreed...

 

I would have separate stats for bombing and air/air.  All stats would encourage survival.

 

Agreed...

 

I'd take the resources they put into a campaign and put them into an enhanced quick mission generator instead.  I know someone has done that, but I think there should be one built into the game.

 

I thought CFS did a decent job of that.. they had a system whereby you could set stats for individuals or teams.

 

Just one epic movie highlighting air combat in WWII.....would have the younger generation fired up....As it is right now....most don't have a clue as to what happened in WWII, nor do they care.  It's a sign of the times......

 

You had "Enemy at the Gates" and the sniper sims came out....."Band of Brothers" and you had Brothers in Arms.. Hell's Highway.....Das Boot....and you had "Silent Hunter"....."Blue Max" and you had "Red Baron"......."Fast and Furious" and they're into cars......WWII is fading away with the veterans that fought there....my father included, and he is gone now as well.  This is one reason I fund projects like BOS and BOM.

 

Regarding SP and Career tracking......sorry but it's an important point.....there needs to be a story line....a feeling of belonging to a unit, a time in history.  I will leave at that... 

 

Agreed... Medal of Honor (1999) .. which really kicked off the WWII FPS thing... would not have been as popular if not for SPR (1998) ... The '95 HBO film Tuskegee Airmen also did a lot for WWII simming..

[AbortedMan]

Regarding presets,

 

I think having a FEW more clickable options is a decent idea.

 

Click it, it works or it doesn't. Leave it or unclick it as you like.

 

I do not, however, condone a free for all in that area either. I don't think the DEV's are gonna go there for a while any way you slice it but I've been wrong a few times. Look at some of my early Fw posts.

I'm curious about which settings/options exactly? We have variable AA levels, Vsync, gamma, texture quality...what else do people need?

 

Not every game has draw distance options...not every game needs them. If you have a system that can run ultra go for it, but as I said about unlimited draw distance: There would be a gameplay disparity based solely on who can afford the highest performing system. That's not a problem a developer nor a gaming community wants...just take a look at the War Thunder ground forces forums for like 2 minutes and you'll see what I mean.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Not sure, I'm technically incompetent but full of freakin ideas. Others feel some more options would benefit them so they are more versed than I. You are technically proficient. So, if you say it won't I can be convinced. Mostly, it is better argued in one of the numerous other threads about it. I'm certainly not intending to debate it or challenge you directly. Options, within reason, just seem good in most respects regarding flight sims.

 

Personally, I bought a tank of a system for BOS so I don't have to worry about it. Because, after twenty years in flight simming I could afford it and justify it. Also, no regrets. I use the presets and enjoy the graphics immensely. Seriously looking forward to fall maps. I think it will be very positive for the community and marketing this game in general.

Edited April 4, 2015 by HerrMurf

[SCG_Neun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV1oNyUUbZA

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV1oNyUUbZA

 

What is this, please?

[SCG_Neun]

The plot of the film Heart of the enemy (2015): The story of the series will talk about how humanity plays a huge role in the destiny, no matter what the situation. Two completely different people, two officers, the defenders of their country, one - Russian army officer Maxim, has the great goal, defends his homeland from the enemy attack. The second - the enemy army officer Eric Lipfert that dedicated. Russian pilot shot down the plane, Eric comes back and saves the life of the pilot of the enemy aircraft. This was followed by many years of German captivity for Maxim. When he returned home, he became a hero for his country, and a traitor. Golf War, when a nightmare for the whole country ended in one of the camps , the fate of the newly merged these two. Both the dedication and love into the sky, became allies . The harsh system that is not nobody gave a chance for life , has become a common enemy soldiers for various barricades. This is how enemies become friends...

 

excuse translation.....but you get the theme.....

Edited April 4, 2015 by JagdNeun

[[KWN]T-oddball]

I'm curious about which settings/options exactly? We have variable AA levels, Vsync, gamma, texture quality...what else do people need?

 

If you pay $1500 for a gamin rig do you really want a $60 game telling you how it will be utilized? If i max out the draw distance in ARMA3 right now it will reduce my frames to about 25 but if i upgrade to a haswell and a 980 it will 50+ FPS which is now playable,

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

Thank you - it looks interesting.

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

Just dropped $100 on War Thunder.. Flight sim is still hokie, but the tanks battles look fun

[BlitzPig_EL]

 how difficult is it to just open up your own dserver.exe and have your friends join? You're clicking the exact same amount of buttons, just in a different order than you would in RoF to start a "room".

 

Ok, this assumes I can run a dserver and fly the sim on my computer at the same time.  Is that possible really?  I don't care what they have said, does it really work in the real world with my 15 down 1 up internet connection?

 

That said, it's moot in any case as I cannot make heads or tails out of the Mission Editor.   You know my feelings on it.  I could never figure out the RoF editor, and the BoS one locked up my rather high end new build computer the last two times I've attempted to try it.

 

The ME is another nail in the coffin that I did not even want to bring up.

[AbortedMan]

Ok, this assumes I can run a dserver and fly the sim on my computer at the same time.  Is that possible really?  I don't care what they have said, does it really work in the real world with my 15 down 1 up internet connection?

 

That said, it's moot in any case as I cannot make heads or tails out of the Mission Editor.   You know my feelings on it.  I could never figure out the RoF editor, and the BoS one locked up my rather high end new build computer the last two times I've attempted to try it.

 

The ME is another nail in the coffin that I did not even want to bring up.

So in-game lobby or not, you'd have issues hosting anything with 1mbps upload...that's not the fault of the game. Yes, you can run the dserver and BoS on your machine at the same time. Obviously higher-end hardware is going to be preferable, but that's not an unreasonable requirement.

 

As for mission creation...if you can't figure out how to get it working and make what you want, ask the community to help or create one for you. Haashashin hosts a Q&A on teamspeak to address and assist any issues one has. That being said, I find the mission editor so easy to figure out (with no previous scripting or mission creating experience) that I find it hard to believe that you actually gave it a decent effort. I'm by no means the smartest guy, if I can figure it out, anyone can.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

For me this pic says it all. Maybe 8 aircraft were in this fight over Stalingrad, the maximum number of players in the server didn't matter really this was more than enough for a whole lot of fun.

 

Edited April 5, 2015 by 6./JG5_Emil