Zettman Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 S! Okay I made a poll to see how many would spent money for such an upgrade. http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/15544-paying-upgrade-dx12/ Zettman
Jupp Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 ~S~! I wrote how I really feel about this subject, then retracted it myself, before posting. It is an entertainment, a hobby. It is what it is. Enjoy it. -Jupp-
6./ZG26_Custard Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 .s ROF doesn't have loads of onliners either and they do have mods. If it's just sounds and whatnot I don't see the problem but what happened with IL2 1946 getting hacked was a disaster for online gaming and respectfully I guess you weren't around when that happened. I was and yes, it was very unfortunate (I stopped playing it) but have since started playing it in SP again and what the community has done with it is remarkable IMHO. I have an awful lot of time for ROF and still play SP but that is even more niche than WWII flight sims. I have to admit that I play predominately SP in BoS. Just having a better SP experience like a proper career mode with better objectives and missions would go a long way to help encourage people to play more maybe? The Dev's have told us that there are no plans to have a flyable Ju 52, something that has not gone down well for many people judging by reading the forums. Team Fusion are currently modding and working on AI flyables, The Wimpy P40 and 108 and without opening a whole can of worms about FM's etc, Modding may be the only way to fly something like the Ju 52 in Bos.
6./ZG26_Custard Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) ~S~! I wrote how I really feel about this subject, then retracted it myself, before posting. It is an entertainment, a hobby. It is what it is. Enjoy it. -Jupp- Looks like the little fella needs one of these Edited March 29, 2015 by OriginalCustard
6./ZG26_Emil Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) I was and yes, it was very unfortunate (I stopped playing it) but have since started playing it in SP again and what the community has done with it is remarkable IMHO. I have an awful lot of time for ROF and still play SP but that is even more niche than WWII flight sims. I have to admit that I play predominately SP in BoS. Just having a better SP experience like a proper career mode with better objectives and missions would go a long way to help encourage people to play more maybe? The Dev's have told us that there are no plans to have a flyable Ju 52, something that has not gone down well for many people judging by reading the forums. Team Fusion are currently modding and working on AI flyables, The Wimpy P40 and 108 and without opening a whole can of worms about FM's etc, Modding may be the only way to fly something like the Ju 52 in Bos. I also stopped playing Il2 and I agree what they have done with it now is amazing...of that there is no doubt. I suppose the big difference is that modding of a product that is no longer supported can only be a good thing. But I am very wary of anything that touches FM/DM and even adds more aircraft to the sim to a game under development. I appreciate a lot of people would find that last part surprising, I mean free planes? great right? But then how does the developer make money once people can make their own? I personally see that as a death sentence for them. ARMA 3 is a sandbox type game and relies on mods but it also has way more customers than something like ROF or BOS. So in short I fully support what SAS and TF are doing, without them those sims would be totally dead (also Falcon 4) but I'm not sure it would be good for a sim that is under development and needs to pay it's bills by releasing more planes and maps. Also regarding the Ju-52...The flight sim community gets a bee in it's bonnet when it is told it can't have something and it then just wants it even more. I will bet my bottom dollar it would hardly get flown if released regardless of what people say :D Cheers Emil Edited March 29, 2015 by 6./JG5_Emil 2
6./ZG26_Custard Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 I also stopped playing Il2 and I agree what they have done with it now is amazing...of that there is no doubt. I suppose the big difference is that modding of a product that is no longer supported can only be a good thing. But I am very wary of anything that touches FM/DM and even adds more aircraft to the sim to a game under development. I appreciate a lot of people would find that last part surprising, I mean free planes? great right? But then how does the developer make money once people can make their own? I personally see that as a death sentence for them. ARMA 3 is a sandbox type game and relies on mods but it also has way more customers than something like ROF or BOS. So in short I fully support what SAS and TF are doing, without them those sims would be totally dead (also Falcon 4) but I'm not sure it would be good for a sim that is under development and needs to pay it's bills by releasing more planes and maps. Also regarding the Ju-52...The flight sim community gets a bee in it's bonnet when it is told it can't have something and it then just wants it even more. I will bet my bottom dollar it would hardly get flown if released regardless of what people say :D Cheers Emil +1
Jade_Monkey Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Wouldnt the low end PCs be the ones benefiting the most out of DX12? Those people are also the most likely to not be DX12 compatible. It's just too much work for the devs, and it's too late. I'd love to see the next IL2 game developped on a new engine with DX12, but right now it's a bit too late fot BOS or BOM.
Livai Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Wouldnt the low end PCs be the ones benefiting the most out of DX12? Why DX12? I play BoS with the AMD A10-7800 that have a powerful Graphiccard inside the CPU @ Full HD with Balanced Settings. This is my HTPC build.
Zettman Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) Wouldnt the low end PCs be the ones benefiting the most out of DX12? Those people are also the most likely to not be DX12 compatible. It's just too much work for the devs, and it's too late. I'd love to see the next IL2 game developped on a new engine with DX12, but right now it's a bit too late fot BOS or BOM. S! DX12 has been announced to be compatible with all Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell chips. So GTX 4xx and above. DX12 can take advantage of up to 6 cores, where even DirectX 11 cant take advantage of more than 2 cores, so high end PCs can shine here. Why DX12? I play BoS with the AMD A10-7800 that have a powerful Graphiccard inside the CPU @ Full HD with Balanced Settings. This is my HTPC build. I would like to get steady 60 FPS with my setup under all conditions. Currently this is not possible for me, cause the game seems to be bottle necked by my CPU. I hope that DX12 will change that by using more cores. Zettman Edited March 29, 2015 by Zettman
[KWN]T-oddball Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 http://www.anandtech.com/show/9038/next-generation-opengl-becomes-vulkan-additional-details-released
Primus_71 Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 If there were no mods in DCS oyu'd see no WW2 servers running their product and a lot customers moaning in their forum about bad graphics and unsufficient sounds. You're missing the point. Let me repeat: if a server requires a specific mod to be installed, I won't be bothered with it. It doesn't matter if a mod suffers from bad graphics/sounds, or it is the best thing since sliced bread. On a side point, why would customers complain on DCS forums to Eagle Dynamics if a particular user-made mod sucks? You're not making sense. Again, my point is: If I see a specific server requiring a specific mod to be installed, in most cases I'll skip it (which I usually do when playing other games). Some (like myself) will not be bothered with installing a required mod, but some will. And that is how mods split an MP community. You will excuse me if this sounds too "spelled out." As you didn't play it though I agree it's obviously no good example unless you feel like you want to investigate into this subject before making high claims First, I did not say "I didn't play it." I said "I hadn't touched it for the past couple of years." I am familiar with the series since Flanker times. Second, I made no claim about DCS, "high" or otherwise. Actually, I specifically refrained from commenting about DCS Only specific reference I made was to Arma. Reading what you're responding to might help you with making more sense.
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 If there were no mods in DCS oyu'd see no WW2 servers running their product and a lot customers moaning in their forum about bad graphics and unsufficient sounds. Reading what you're responding to might help you with making more sense. I gladly pass that back to you...anyway, closed case for me. Good to see the poll up, might be more helpfull than this thread.
Primus_71 Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) I gladly pass that back to you...anyway, closed case for me. Got me there Anyhow, the main point re mods splitting a community stands. But I'll leave it at that as well. Edited March 30, 2015 by [-]Primus_71
Livai Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 I would like to get steady 60 FPS with my setup under all conditions. Currently this is not possible for me, cause the game seems to be bottle necked by my CPU. I hope that DX12 will change that by using more cores. Zettman And how look the Performance if you play RoF, much better? If yes, BoS Game Engine need to improved and I not mean with a upgrade to DX10/11/12. I still wonder about the Performance boost effect after the Custom Graphic Settings are removed. I had the hope to see improvements how Game Console Developer do after they removed the Custom Graphic Settings for better Performance and Performance Scale. But they hide only the Custom Graphic Settings from us. No Game code improvements was made here. Very sad. A upgrade to DX10/11/12 doesnt help here if the Game Code is still not improved that he run under DX9 great how RoF run after this job is done you can scale to DX10/11/12!
312_strycekFido Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Mods killed off IL2 online for a long time. I know a lot of people who packed it in because of the cheating, dubious flight models and hassle of having multiple installs. Be careful for what you wish for. exactly! mods basically killed mp with ouside world in our squad... 1
VR-DriftaholiC Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 DX12 will allow the devs to use GPU horsepower to do calculations only the CPU could do. It will also let you SLI any video cards and use your intel graphics to assist lol
AbortedMan Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 DirectX isn't some bolt-on system that you can just flip a switch and activate. Everyone can argue about what it does all day (and they will), but an API change won't happen for a very long time.
Scarecrow Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 For sure there are many things that the devs could do 64bit would be nice aswell as DX12. But they won't. They have an engine that works well enough for most so they aren't gonna fix it. Eagle Dynamics has taken something like 5 years to get their DX11 IG to video demo state cos thats how long these things take. Oleg took even longer on CLOD. Time is money.
beepee Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 1946 which has just this month had a massive community mega patch released. Yeah, pity it's not for online play though.
SR-F_Winger Posted April 4, 2015 Author Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) For sure there are many things that the devs could do 64bit would be nice aswell as DX12. But they won't. They have an engine that works well enough for most so they aren't gonna fix it. Eagle Dynamics has taken something like 5 years to get their DX11 IG to video demo state cos thats how long these things take. Oleg took even longer on CLOD. Time is money. ED did the right decision. Also on supporting VR. Time will proove me right. When VR arrives and a sim cant provide support its destined to die. Getting the perforrmance needed to run everyting in the desired resultions at the needed FPS for VR would be gratly supported by a better API. Simple as that. Edited April 4, 2015 by VSG1_Winger 1
Scarecrow Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 ED did the right decision. Also on supporting VR. Time will proove me right. When VR arrives and a sim cant provide support its destined to die. Getting the perforrmance needed to run everyting in the desired resultions at the needed FPS for VR would be gratly supported by a better API. Simple as that. Oh for sure ED made the right move. They are set up for a long time. 32bit DX9 can do neat tricks but has real limitations with alot of highres textures and hifi physics going on.
II/JG17_HerrMurf Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 I'm no DX expert but after reading numerous threads on the 9 vs 11 debate it seems DX 11 would not have offered significant performance andvantages and no real future proofing. I am in support of DX 12, in a couple of years, if it offers the advantages being anecdotally spoken about on some of the tech websites. Additionally, it seems if you have a moderately robust computer now you will be able to utilize DX 12 and won't need to significantly upgrade hardware to take advantage of it. In three years I'll be ready for a new system anyway and DX 12 will probably be the norm (and have all of the bugs/patches worked out - it is Microsoft afterall). If it can really increase objects/processing speeds as claimed it will be significant. I would be willing to pay for an engine upgrade and/or DX 12 in some fashion down the road if the game can be ported over. My bets are already placed, I'll let it ride for now.
6./ZG26_Emil Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 I'm no DX expert but after reading numerous threads on the 9 vs 11 debate it seems DX 11 would not have offered significant performance andvantages and no real future proofing. I am in support of DX 12, in a couple of years, if it offers the advantages being anecdotally spoken about on some of the tech websites. Additionally, it seems if you have a moderately robust computer now you will be able to utilize DX 12 and won't need to significantly upgrade hardware to take advantage of it. In three years I'll be ready for a new system anyway and DX 12 will probably be the norm (and have all of the bugs/patches worked out - it is Microsoft afterall). If it can really increase objects/processing speeds as claimed it will be significant. I would be willing to pay for an engine upgrade and/or DX 12 in some fashion down the road if the game can be ported over. My bets are already placed, I'll let it ride for now. How dare you come out with a common sense post! We want DX-5000 and we want it NOW!
II/JG17_HerrMurf Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 I was so inspired I posted versions of it in TWO threads.
VR-DriftaholiC Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 Six weeks. Two engineers. That’s what it took to upgrade Cryengine’s “King of Wushu” to #DX12 https://youtu.be/AB5iuX8UDHk
Urra Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Six weeks. Two engineers. That’s what it took to upgrade Cryengine’s “King of Wushu” to #DX12 interesting. We only need two volunteers..?
6./ZG26_Emil Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Six weeks. Two engineers. That’s what it took to upgrade Cryengine’s “King of Wushu” to #DX12 https://youtu.be/AB5iuX8UDHk Will DX12 work with Windows 7?
taleks Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Cryengine supports DX12 out of the box, but it still required 2 engineers, 6 weeks and Nvidia support to port from DX11 to DX12. Just saying. DX12 requires upgrade of: 1) GPU - means money, although most of simmers have good video card anyway, but there are a lot of this who have previous generation cards. Mass market has not adopted DX11 yet, so it will take much time to get DX12. Common game engines will support it of course, it is free for devs. But BoS's engine is custom with own features and limitations. 2) Windows (up to 10). It is free for 7 or 8.1 users, but I know a lot of guys who still use WindowsXP. Customs are difficult to change, remember whine in internet when Win8 was introduced. I use Win8.1 in Desktop, or let's say Win7, mode most of time. I'm comfortable without classic start menu, because I've started from Win3.11 on 80286 and keyboard, I know how to survive in Windows world. But a lot of guys don't know. 2
Mastermariner Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 This is the reason I wont buy BoM, we are moving backwards in time, DX 9 and 32 bits! Master
361fundahl Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) Fuck windows 8. Really though, it's so [Edited] annoying for no fucking reason. Edited May 14, 2015 by Bearcat Profanity...
VR-DriftaholiC Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Cryengine supports DX12 out of the box, but it still required 2 engineers, 6 weeks and Nvidia support to port from DX11 to DX12. Just saying. DX12 requires upgrade of: 1) GPU - means money, although most of simmers have good video card anyway, but there are a lot of this who have previous generation cards. Mass market has not adopted DX11 yet, so it will take much time to get DX12. Common game engines will support it of course, it is free for devs. But BoS's engine is custom with own features and limitations. 2) Windows (up to 10). It is free for 7 or 8.1 users, but I know a lot of guys who still use WindowsXP. Customs are difficult to change, remember whine in internet when Win8 was introduced. I use Win8.1 in Desktop, or let's say Win7, mode most of time. I'm comfortable without classic start menu, because I've started from Win3.11 on 80286 and keyboard, I know how to survive in Windows world. But a lot of guys don't know. Does this mean the upgrade isn't in the future of IL2?
Urra Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) Does this mean the upgrade isn't in the future of IL2? Also, Isn't dx12 backwards compatible though...meaning a product built on 12 would work on windows 7,8? Edited May 14, 2015 by roaming_gnome
Zettman Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Cryengine supports DX12 out of the box, but it still required 2 engineers, 6 weeks and Nvidia support to port from DX11 to DX12. Just saying. DX12 requires upgrade of: 1) GPU - means money, although most of simmers have good video card anyway, but there are a lot of this who have previous generation cards. DX12 is compatible with all DX9 cards. For Nvidia this means all Maxwell, Kepler and Fermi cards, soo all the way down to the GTX 400 series. A list of AMD cards that will support DX12 can be found here http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-released-list-of-compatible-directx-12-cards.html So most people will have a DX12 compatible card, Don't think there are that many people with GTX 280 or older cards arround. Zettman 1
Urra Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 DX12 is compatible with all DX9 cards. For Nvidia this means all Maxwell, Kepler and Fermi cards, soo all the way down to the GTX 400 series. A list of AMD cards that will support DX12 can be found here http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-released-list-of-compatible-directx-12-cards.html So most people will have a DX12 compatible card, Don't think there are that many people with GTX 280 or older cards arround. Zettman Dx9 vs dx11 usage stats found by chance for 2013-2015. http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
Urra Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Dx9 vs dx11 usage stats found by chance for 2013-2015. http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey Actually meant to post this link instead for those that don't want an extra mouse click. http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/
taleks Posted May 15, 2015 Posted May 15, 2015 Does this mean the upgrade isn't in the future of IL2? No, it was just response to shiny data about easiness of porting. Which technologies and when will be supported by DN it is not question I can answer. You need to get response from official representatives of 1CGS. I can say my personal opinion only, which is: it requires a lot of resources and thus not possible right now. DX12 is compatible with all DX9 cards. As far as I know, older cards may benefit from changed resource management and graphics pipeline, but they will get only part of features. It is more like DX11 on steroids, but it can't magically change DX10 device to DX12 device. 1
VR-DriftaholiC Posted May 15, 2015 Posted May 15, 2015 Taking the time to express this is appreciated. Looks promising if you can use GPU power to help with the CPU limitations of this game and it's AI etc
Urra Posted May 15, 2015 Posted May 15, 2015 Thank you for posting with details not only once but several times to this thread. Very much appreciated.
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