You should REALLY consider changing to DX12

[SR-F_Winger]

See why:

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/quick-test-directx-12-api-overhead-benchmark.html

 

[=LD=Hethwill]

The difference is just abysmal. But code is different. Everything has to be changed and a developer hired and...and....and...

Edited March 27, 2015 by =LD=Hethwill_Khan

[SR-F_Winger]

The difference is just abysmal. But code is different. Everything has to be changed and a developer hired and...and....and...

Marketingsolutions. Make it part of an upcoming addonpack and let the customers pay for it. I am sure EVERYONE here would pay gladly for such an upgrade.

At least I would!

[Livai]

There is no need for DirectX 10/11/12. Why very simple. The Game Engine need to be improved. This video is a good example how to improve and what
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr2sej5_4rY

[1./JG42Nephris]

Yeah right ... just rewrite the render path...dream on soldier.

The player wont benefit of it, more the dev due new functions.

 

And I doubt DX12 will generatemore players in MP, isnt it.

So much more important than a new render path.

[AbortedMan]

People don't seem to know what they're asking when they make this request.

 

May as well be telling your people to bring you the horizon.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

While some may want it sooner than later, and I want to know more about the performance benefits, I wouldn't ask this of the devs for at least a couple of years. Maybe the next generation of Il2 under Jason and Loft's governance. Let the game get up and running, optimized and populated for now. The superficial articles I have read certainly indicate the possiblity of significantly improved performance. As of now, however, I am really happy with the way development is currently progressing.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I don't care about it at the moment.

[BeastyBaiter]

BoS should have been DX11 from day one. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful game but the tech it uses is ancient and problematic for modern PC's (namely ATI). It's long over due for an upgrade. Given the alleged compatibility of DX11 and DX12 hardware, it makes sense to skip DX11 and go straight to DX12. Making the switch to 64 bit also needs to happen. The whole skin reloading every time you look away nonsense needs to die a horrible death. I'm just guessing, but I'm betting that's due to the RAM limitations associated with 32 bit architecture.

[Zettman]

S!

 

Even if this is just a synthetically bench (drawcalls) which won't translate 1:1 in an FPS gain DX12 will be the future. Offering features like reduce CPU load will help this game which is often bottlenecked by CPU. Also upcoming features like VRAM stack for SLI and Dual GPU card users are nice to have (no longer mirrored VRAM) and will help older setups to support high resolutions.

 

And since I'm a hardware enthusiast, good FPS are an important part for me to enjoy multiplayer. Just played on DED server yesterday and had 40-50 FPS on low altitude as the server was full. Star Citizen has already announced that they will make the step to DX12 and I will enjoy seeing my rig getting utilized fully by this game. 

 

Zettman

[LizLemon]

The whole skin reloading every time you look away nonsense needs to die a horrible death. I'm just guessing, but I'm betting that's due to the RAM limitations associated with 32 bit architecture.

 

Well its not a bug, its a feature 

 

"Our skins have no bugs. What LL is complaining about (I guess) is how our system optimizes texture memory by only drawing skins on planes that are within view. Sometimes, not all the time, and I haven't looked lately, you can choose to look at an external shot of a plane and if the plane happens to have a custom skin it may take a short second to appear. 

 

Jason"

 

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/13045-been-playing-skins-and-skin-viewer-alpha/page-2

 

So I wouldn't hold out hope on them fixing it anytime soon. 

Edited March 28, 2015 by LizLemon

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

People don't seem to know what they're asking when they make this request.

 

May as well be telling your people to bring you the horizon.

+1

[1./JG42Nephris]

I am unsure if you really know what you are talking about and what a deep impact into an exiting engine financially costs, like an Dx upgrade.

It is not just like changing a simple .dll file. Basically it is a complete rewrite.

If they would have considered to update to DX11 (which was the actual version, when the game started to develop) we would probabyl still be far off a release date.

 

And btw what excactly do you think will you as player benefit of, by an DX upgrade?

 

What are you willing to pay for an upgrade to get DX implemented? 100€ or 200€ each user? I guess that is the price you would have to count with...just for getting no more content but DX12.

 

A DX12 update will most probably not fill the mp servers more than now.

Edited March 28, 2015 by 1./JG42Nephris

[II./JG77_Manu*]

And I doubt DX12 will generatemore players in MP, isnt it. So much more important than a new render path. -

A DX12 update will most probably not fill the mp servers more than now.

 

If you could create a proper lively server, with a proper groundwar going on, and dozens till a hundred of AI planes fulfilling tasks, while there are 100+ playerslots available, damn sure it would fill the mp servers more. The current engine can't run something like that obviously

Edited March 28, 2015 by Celestiale

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

A DX12 update will most probably not fill the mp servers more than now.

 

Bingo!

 

The number of players now does not come close to stressing the DX9 engine, so why spend all that 'limited' time and money on something that is not even needed.. If they want to attract more players, there are far better things to spend that 'limited' time and money on.. Just adding more planes to fly for example would attract more players than adding DX12 support IMHO.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

A "mods" on option would probably bring more ppl  to the party too. It's not the be all and end all I know, but just look what the modding community have done with 2 other IL2 titles we know so well. If this ever happens (not likely it seems) those living in fear of a modded BoS , its easy.... don't install any and just play vanilla.  

[6./ZG26_Emil]

A "mods" on option would probably bring more ppl  to the party too. It's not the be all and end all I know, but just look what the modding community have done with 2 other IL2 titles we know so well. If this ever happens (not likely it seems) those living in fear of a modded BoS , its easy.... don't install any and just play vanilla.  

 

Mods killed off IL2 online for a long time. I know a lot of people who packed it in because of the cheating, dubious flight models and hassle of having multiple installs. 

 

Be careful for what you wish for.

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

A "mods" on option would probably bring more ppl  to the party too. It's not the be all and end all I know, but just look what the modding community have done with 2 other IL2 titles we know so well. If this ever happens (not likely it seems) those living in fear of a modded BoS , its easy.... don't install any and just play vanilla.  

 

Well, we may not agree on what the devs should do to increase the number of players/users..

 

But I think most of us can agree that adding DX12 support is not one of them!

 

If this game ever gets to hosting 'half' the number of people playing War of Blunder.. Than and only than should the devs start considering spending the limited amount of time and money porting the game to DX12, IMHO.

[1./JG42Nephris]

If you could create a proper lively server, with a proper groundwar going on, and dozens till a hundred of AI planes fulfilling tasks, while there are 100+ playerslots available, damn sure it would fill the mp servers more. The current engine can't run something like that obviously

But that is no point of DX but a complete recreation of the whole engine.

The creation of a new engine wont happen.

So again what is it worth in money to receive that update?

 

 

Everyone knew which engine would be used, everyone knew its limits, as RoF was and is a running example.

So a bit useless to call out for an update now.

Realizing an DX update is far beyond imagination here.

[LizLemon]

Mods killed off IL2 online for a long time. I know a lot of people who packed it in because of the cheating, dubious flight models and hassle of having multiple installs.

 

Be careful for what you wish for.

Mods created so many problems in il2 because they were never planned for.

 

Look at all the games that have had mod support from the get go and have never had any of the problems.

 

A reasonably well thought out modding support won't create the problems you listed. Case in point: rise of flight. What hacking and splintering problems has that game suffered?

 

Yet for some reason they won't add that perfectly functional system to bos, even though we were told that they would. And because of that the community suffers.

Everyone knew which engine would be used, everyone knew its limits, as RoF was and is a running example.

So a bit useless to call out for an update now.

Realizing an DX update is far beyond imagination here.

Many people here claimed that bos wouldn't have the same problems as rof since bos was an improved version of that engine.

 

I guess you could count the reflections as an improvement, but obviously they didn't do much work with regards to more objects and ai.

Edited March 28, 2015 by LizLemon

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Mods created so many problems in il2 because they were never planned for.

 

Look at all the games that have had mod support from the get go and have never had any of the problems.

 

A reasonably well thought out modding support won't create the problems you listed. Case in point: rise of flight. What hacking and splintering problems has that game suffered?

 

Yet for some reason they won't add that perfectly functional system to bos, even though we were told that they would. And because of that the community suffers.

 

 

The were never planned for not to mention you could argue the hacking killed off any more revenue possibilities from the old IL2...since CLOD was delayed for so long it's possible/probable that money could have funded development a little longer and kept the whole program alive.

 

I'm not against mods especially in the way ROF was done, my point is more regarding the post I quoted, Il2 was hacked and killed the online game for several years until some of the later mods seemed to sort it out by which time many people had moved on. CLOD is a different kettle of fish and not really an example of a mod-able game....everyone plays using the TF patch.

 

So in short I agree with you on the ROF example, I played ROF a bit and used mods. As long as the FM isn't touched I'm fairly relaxed but I do not see what happened to Il2 in 2008 as a particularly good thing. Surely it's early days and we'll get features that ROF has (and BOS doesn't) like those mods and a dynamic campaign etc

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Mods killed off IL2 online for a long time. I know a lot of people who packed it in because of the cheating, dubious flight models and hassle of having multiple installs. 

 

Be careful for what you wish for.

 

I respect your viewpoint but it hasn't killed off CLOD or 1946 which has just this month had a massive community mega patch released.

 

 

 

. As I said if people don't want mods they don't have to install them, but a mods option does seem to attract more players and more virtual squadrons

[sturmkraehe]

Depends on what you call "mods". If it is texture stuff why not (basically we already can mod our skins). If it is for ground decorative objects why not. Anything else is killing the game as it will fraction the small comunity further reducing the player number that you will find on one server. The servers will just become less crowded. Modded IL2 did NOT increase player numbers. It reduced it effectively. Before hacking IL2 1947 ALL online players played the same game. After hacking IL2 1946 all online players played several different games. Result? For people wanting to fly vanilla it got increasingly difficult to find a crowded server let alone a crowded server that also had the desired difficult settings. This was the latest point when quite a few people just dropped IL2 1947 including me. 

Edited March 28, 2015 by sturmkraehe

[KodiakJac]

While mods did seem to hurt the online community in IL-2, mods caused the SP community to explode in popularity and made IL-2 the legendary game it is today.  And SP players make up the lions share of CFS customers according to 1CGS, so mods are also good for MP players (if managed correctly like in RoF) as they make the game financially stronger through more sales to SP customers.

 

Look at the ARMA series...people love mods!

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

Modded IL2 did NOT increase player numbers

  I get what you are saying but unmodded IL2 is not increasing in numbers either.

 

 

 

in IL-2, mods caused the SP community to explode in popularity and made IL-2 the legendary game it is today

 

Yep   

 

 

 

people love mods!

 

Indeed they do.

[JG27_Chivas]

If the huge frame rate increases with DX12 actually exist, then it should be a very good thing for combat flight sims.  Especially in regards to the frames and high Hz necessary for decent Virtual Reality headsets.   DX9 sims will do just fine right now, but five years from now they will be hurting for customers.   Which could hurt BOS's long term plan to evolve for a dozen years or so like the original IL-2. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

We got pretty far OT from the DX12 OP, eh?

[Rjel]

If the huge frame rate increases with DX12 actually exist, then it should be a very good thing for combat flight sims.  Especially in regards to the frames and high Hz necessary for decent Virtual Reality headsets.   DX9 sims will do just fine right now, but five years from now they will be hurting for customers.   Which could hurt BOS's long term plan to evolve for a dozen years or so like the original IL-2. 

I'd suggest that thinking of BoS as a viable sim a dozen years from now might be a pipe dream. Consider the last poll, (http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11312-whats-your-age/ ) that showed the major portion of players here are 40+ years of age. While some new, younger players will come along to replace us old guys, will those numbers add up to the block of players we represent? Personally, instead of the hacking and modding of the old IL-2 causing the demise of the online community alone, I think it's as much the ravages of time as anything. A lot of people's names we still remember from those grand old days, are no longer around. While I still enjoy tooling around in flight sims, my desire isn't what it was. I'd bet it's the same for a lot of long time players.

[[KWN]T-oddball]

I respect your viewpoint but it hasn't killed off CLOD or 1946 which has just this month had a massive community mega patch released.

 

 

 

. As I said if people don't want mods they don't have to install them, but a mods option does seem to attract more players and more virtual squadrons

 

very nice indeed.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

very nice indeed.

  It's amazing what they have done.

[LizLemon]

If the huge frame rate increases with DX12 actually exist, then it should be a very good thing for combat flight sims.  Especially in regards to the frames and high Hz necessary for decent Virtual Reality headsets.   DX9 sims will do just fine right now, but five years from now they will be hurting for customers.   Which could hurt BOS's long term plan to evolve for a dozen years or so like the original IL-2. 

 

One of the big advantages of DX12 is a far larger number of draw calls per frame, which would translate to many more objects on screen at once. Look at the screenshots of BoM and the short distance trees are rendered in. After a bit they completely disappear. But with lots of draw calls you can cram more stuff on screen without a performance impact, such as having trees rendered from more then a few hundred meters beyond the player.

 

Depends on what you call "mods". If it is texture stuff why not (basically we already can mod our skins). If it is for ground decorative objects why not. Anything else is killing the game as it will fraction the small comunity further reducing the player number that you will find on one server. The servers will just become less crowded. Modded IL2 did NOT increase player numbers. It reduced it effectively. Before hacking IL2 1947 ALL online players played the same game. After hacking IL2 1946 all online players played several different games. Result? For people wanting to fly vanilla it got increasingly difficult to find a crowded server let alone a crowded server that also had the desired difficult settings. This was the latest point when quite a few people just dropped IL2 1947 including me. 

 

Which goes back to the issue of il2 was not designed with mods in mind. This caused the problem of splintering the community.

 

If you have any experience with games that supported mods from the get go then you'd know that mods do not cause the community to split. In many cases its quite the opposite. 

[Primus_71]

 

 

If you have any experience with games that supported mods from the get go then you'd know that mods do not cause the community to split. In many cases its quite the opposite.

 

 

In my opinion, mods will split an MP community, regardless of whether the game was designed to support modding from the outset. Not everyone will have the time or  desire to download and install hundreds of mods, small and large with marginal value with questionable interoperability, just to play on a server (I know I won't).  

 

Although this is not necessarily a problem with games with a huge MP player base (like the Arma series), it is the right thing to do to exclude modes from MP  for our niche groupwhere the number of MP players is already very limited.

 

SP is a whole different issue, however. 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

If you think so take another look at DCS for example. Nearly all kinds of graphic and sounds mods there are fully MP compatible. It works perfectly fine there in my opinion and I'm glad it's that way given the variety of great game enhancing mods already out for it.

 

It's quite the same argument people used when the Dserver came up saying more servers would split the small MP comunity to be too thin to play reaosnably. Well, you see how far this went...

[sturmkraehe]

As I said some esthetical mods do not harm the game and interoperability as long as it does not procure an advantage in online (a sound mod could be a problematic one in online game if you can tune it so you can hear opponents from a far distance and if for instance the sound varies depending on plane type which will all be feasible with a free accessible sound generation code). Similarily a free texture modification ability may allow highly competitive players to paint their ground in let's say violet and the sky let's say red in order to increase discernability of other planes. So in order to ensure equal chances to every player on the server the server operator would have to require the players on his server to have the same mod which - as a consequence - will kill off any interoperability. 

 

Single player is another thing and I basically don't care if other players start to tweak the game to make it easier. It remains however questionable if such a tweaking is acceptable in view of the campaign unlocking thing. 

 

BTW how can anybody reasonably claim that mods increased sp players of 1947 since there is no way to quantify people playing sp? Just trying to understand how one could come to that conclusion?

[Primus_71]

Apples and oranges. 

If you think so take another look at DCS for example. Nearly all kinds of graphic and sounds mods there are fully MP compatible. It works perfectly fine there in my opinion and I'm glad it's that way given the variety of great game enhancing mods already out for it

 

 

I haven't touched DCS for the past couple of years, so I don't know the current situation there. Nevertheless, if a server requires a specific mod to be installed, I won't be bothered with it.

 

 

It's quite the same argument people used when the Dserver came up saying more servers would split the small MP comunity to be too thin to play reaosnably. Well, you see how far this went...

 

 

Apples and oranges.

Edited March 29, 2015 by [-]Primus_71

[Zettman]

S!

 

We are going off topic again.

 

Why don't we make a poll about how many bucks anyone would be willing to pay for DX12 support? I for myself would not have a problem with spending additional 100€ for such a thing.

 

Zettman

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Apples and oranges.

All I read about is made up fear about nothing. If the mod system is the same as in ROF (which was /is very restrictive talking about MP mods) just like people demand it everything would be fine as well.

 

I mentioned DCS to offer you a positive counter example of how a flight sim can benefit from mods in MP. If there were no mods in DCS oyu'd see no WW2 servers running their product and a  lot customers moaning in their forum about bad graphics and unsufficient sounds.

 

As you didn't play it though I agree it's obviously no good example unless you feel like you want to investigate into this subject before making high claims.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Urra]

S!

 

We are going off topic again.

 

Why don't we make a poll about how many bucks anyone would be willing to pay for DX12 support? I for myself would not have a problem with spending additional 100€ for such a thing.

 

Zettman

A small investment. I'm in.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

BTW how can anybody reasonably claim that mods increased sp players of 1947 since there is no way to quantify people playing sp? Just trying to understand how one could come to that conclusion?

 .

 

The CUP super mod has incorporated more or less ever era of flight with around 28GB of updates. Just check the community forums for 1946 (a game which is 10 plus years old) and the sheer amount of time, effort and care that the modding community has put into that title. If people were not playing or interested in a game why bother going to so much trouble? I take the point that people may not want mods, that's fine don't install them.

 

Looking at online players, a Team Fusion modded game (CLOD) seems to have more folks at times, playing that online than Bos. It's a real shame and I certainly hope that changes because I genuinely like BoS very much. I much prefer it to DCS etc.  

 

Mods on or off, we are currently in a situation where we do not have a large number of people playing this game in MP, that's very few people to split.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

There are more people playing BOS right now than CLOD or IL2 both of which have 50-60 online. Generally the numbers are fairly similar for all three sims but vary depending on what is going on. With CLOD they're often just all on one server so it gives you the impression more people play it. Offline we have no idea for any of the three sims but I would imagine BOS and IL2-1946 have more than CLOD, possibly 1946 has the most. TF is more like a patch than a mod since the sim was left unfinished, you don't see people playing different incarnations of it.

p.s ROF doesn't have loads of onliners either and they do have mods. If it's just sounds and whatnot I don't see the problem but what happened with IL2 1946 getting hacked was a disaster for online gaming and respectfully I guess you weren't around when that happened.

Edited March 29, 2015 by 6./JG5_Emil