I have seen the future of flight simming

[Freycinet]

Can't wait to try BoS with the OR! I'll try to get a video up asap... :-)

[Sim]

A slightly different take on VR compared to Oculus Rift:

 

 

http://reviews.cnet.com/wearable-tech/avegant-virtual-retinal-display/4505-34900_7-35828603.html

 

Notice how they say it feels like looking through a window rather than to a pixelated LCD screen?  Also, while they did say the focus is not on gaming VR in general - for some reason they have a prototype with head tracking available.

 

Edit: Some extra comments from the article/video author on reddit:

 

About FoV: Hard to guesstimate... a fair bit smaller than the Rift. I'm sitting about two feet from a 24'' monitor and I'd say that look to be roughly the same size as the Avegant image.

 

To be clear, the prototype was run through an HDMI splitter. It acted like a single, wide display that the splitter broke into two.

 

In VR field of view is indeed very important, but as noted in the article, VR isn't the primary application here.

 

It is really compelling. It was a bit finnicky to get oriented and adjusted properly, but once it was good it was really good. There were no pixels to see and the quality was really bright and clear. The most interesting bit, though, was how easy it felt on the eyes. It felt a little like slipping on a pair of glasses that reduce eye strain. When I took them off it took a moment or two for my eyes to adjust to having to focus on things again. That was a weird sensation.

 

This is heavy, and it sits right on your nose. It's not comfortable at all, but they have a long way to go in the industrial design of the thing. Rift is far more comfortable at this point.

 

Oculus is really fantastic. I'm really tempted to buy the dev kit, but I presume the HD consumer version will be a fair bit better. This, though, is on another level in terms of optical quality, resolution, and eye relief. I hope they get to market soon!

 

VR seems to be a hot topic right now.. And Sony is also working on a VR headset for PS4.

 

Although, from a developers point of view supporting a bunch of different VR devices could be a nightmare.. I guess it's time for some open API - like OpenVR (or DirectVR as part of DirectX).

Edited October 14, 2013 by Sim

[Krig]

Can you have glasses underneath the OR or is it time to get lenses? I'm sure I never can use the OR with my stupid eye

 

Oh and one more thing. I've seen people use it. Can you tweak it so you don't have to fall out of the chair when checking your six. Like Tir.

[Adebar]

Otyg, the OR comes withs everal lenses, suitable for people with glasses also.

 

I also asked Freycinet, if you can adjust the sense of the OR, this point does not seem to be clear yet. But he believes it will come with a 1:1 translation of movement only,act least for the dev kit. We have to wait...

[Freycinet]

Oh and one more thing. I've seen people use it. Can you tweak it so you don't have to fall out of the chair when checking your six. Like Tir.

My high-tech cheat is a swivel chair, works great :-)

 

I don't think the OR will work well with anything less than 1:1 translation because you are *inside* the action in a much more physically compelling way than in TrackIR where you still can keep your bearings because you see your actual surroundings.

 

Sim, very interesting link, thanks a lot for posting, looks like an incredible device and with no screens it can potentially be shrunk to a very wearable size.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Freycinet

[Krig]

My high-tech cheat is a swivel chair, works great :-)

.

You will get banned in a jiffy if you use that online!

Otyg, the OR comes withs everal lenses, suitable for people with glasses also.

 

I also asked Freycinet, if you can adjust the sense of the OR, this point does not seem to be clear yet. But he believes it will come with a 1:1 translation of movement only,act least for the dev kit. We have to wait...

Nice to hear. I see dubble one one of My eyes. Damn sports. Gets u banged up. But when the time comes I'll go and see if I can get lenses. Gaming lenses. Haha

[adonys]

Sim, very interesting link, thanks a lot for posting, looks like an incredible device and with no screens it can potentially be shrunk to a very wearable size.

well, this little device sounds indeed good, but, unfortunatelly, it seems that it has a too small FoV (only 45 degrees) and it doesn't seem to have any eyball tracking device incorporated, which kind of rules it out as a VR device.

[DD_bongodriver]

I don't understand this apparent importance of eye tracking, the OR doesn't have it and it works perfectly as a VR device.

[adonys]

yes, because OR doesn't project the image into our eyes, but rather your eyes are looking at it on OR's LDC screen. Avegant's VRD it projecting the image into user's eye via some lenses, which means that if the user moves his eyes, VRD is not tracking that movement and therefore can not make any adjustments to the projected image.

 

also, I do not know for sure, but having to keep your eyes still, or within a very small movement window, in order to have the VRD's projected image "focused", seems to lead to quite a lot of eye stress over time.

[DD_bongodriver]

Yes that does make sense, now you mention it, it seems amazing they got a projected image to work at all.

[FlatSpinMan]

This has all essentially moved into the realm of magic.

[Freycinet]

Magic, yes! Wasn't it Arthur C Clarke that said something like "if people in the past saw todays' technology it would be indistinguishable from magic in their eyes"...? Or words to that effect...

[=69.GIAP=TUSHKA]

Magic, yes! Wasn't it Arthur C Clarke that said something like "if people in the past saw todays' technology it would be indistinguishable from magic in their eyes"...? Or words to that effect...

Words to that effect.

 

Arthur C. Clarke's First Law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

[HoH]

Is it possible to use headphones freely with Oculus?

[DD_bongodriver]

Is it possible to use headphones freely with Oculus?

Yes, there is no problem using headphones and microphone with OR

[HoH]

Do you get tired after few hours of usage?

[DD_bongodriver]

Nope

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

HOH, look at Bongo's face, does that look like a man who gets tired...pah...Bongo laughs in the face of tired!

[DD_bongodriver]

[Schwalbee]

Nice review fun Read for now i shall stay with track ir 5

[DD_bongodriver]

For now I would recommend staying with Trackir, unless you are specifically interested in testing VR tech and see it finally arrive on the home market and have and understanding that it is currently at a development stage.

[SYN_Bandy]

Wow, Freycinet, I was a disbeliever before, but with that well written post I am absolutely turned on now.

 

Bigger high resolution monitors are mostly happy when fed by a beefy GPU.  What card were you using, or, what are the recommendations to feed Oculus?  I'm hoping that instead of a new GPU early next year that this might take precedent in the purchase department.

[HoH]

There is no need for more performance even for future 1080p Oculus. GPU does not render two frames but one frame with all information needed to make a stereoscopic image.

[stiboo]

 The latest PC Gamer mag UK has a glowing report on the Rift - saying that VR headsets are finally here to stay...and that it IS the future of PC gaming...

 

and a little bit about BoS in a separate article....mentions you need to be connected to internet for offline campaign, 100 player multiplayer capability and a pic of pilot in freefall after bailing out...

 

 

.

[Grifter]

Sure sounds interesting. However, I haven't heard what your options are if you don't have a flight control setup with everything mapped to buttons.

I guess that would be a prerequisite to using it in a flight sim, otherwise how the heck do you manipulate an "E" key on a keyboard to start the engine? You sure can't see the keyboard with the OR on your face.

[Matt]

Keyboards are actually designed, so that you don't have to look at them to hit the right key. Atleast most are.

[stiboo]

Keyboards are actually designed, so that you don't have to look at them to hit the right key. Atleast most are.

 

yes you are right, most keys we hit instinctively when we are flying, I think virtual hand movements will go along with the rift so you will move your virtual hands in the cockpit to actually move controls etc.. in the virtual cockpit. 

 

We already have this with the Razer Hydra which mimics hand movement in First Person Shooters, shooting, picking up, throwing etc...

 

Exciting times ahead !

 

Simon

[Heywooood]

hmmm - doesn't the cockpit need to have clickable switches for that to work....

 

pits are not clickable in RoF....wont be in BoS either

 

seriously - whats the hyperbole over this 'rift' crap

 

why not just climb into a 'Matrix' human battery tube and be done with reality for good

[Freycinet]

Because then we wouldn't have your sweet postings to read...  :-)

[Matt]

You forgot this television thing or whatever it's called. Who would ever need something like that crap.

 

 

hmmm - doesn't the cockpit need to have clickable switches for that to work....

No.

[DD_bongodriver]

hmmm - doesn't the cockpit need to have clickable switches for that to work....

 

pits are not clickable in RoF....wont be in BoS either

 

seriously - whats the hyperbole over this 'rift' crap

 

why not just climb into a 'Matrix' human battery tube and be done with reality for good

 

Just because you don't want to join in the party doesn't mean you have to be a complete grouch.

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

I am sure OR-style VR is the future for these sorts of games and sims. I remain to be convinced we are there yet. I would like to see some update from the new and improved OR.

[Freycinet]

With present tech I think the best control option in a sim while using OR is a hotas joystick/throttle for one hand, with all the most-used controls, and for the other hand a mouse that controls an on-screen pointer you can use in a clickpit, for start-up and all the less used non-combat-related controls. Using a mousepointer is extremely easy with OR, an order of magnitude easier than with TrackIR.

[JG27_Chivas]

Not sure why they bother making computer hardware, and combat flight sim software, a good book and my imagination is far to superior to this OR crap. 

[Grifter]

With present tech I think the best control option in a sim while using OR is a hotas joystick/throttle for one hand, with all the most-used controls, and for the other hand a mouse that controls an on-screen pointer you can use in a clickpit, for start-up and all the less used non-combat-related controls. Using a mousepointer is extremely easy with OR, an order of magnitude easier than with TrackIR.

 

Thanks Frey- that's more close to what I was hunting after. Living through all this convergence is exciting if a bit tedious at times!

[Dakpilot]

The concept of the rift is seemingly a great leap forward for an immersive visual experience, but the idea of moving my "virtual" hand to click/move a "virtual switch" seems a big downer in immersion, even pressing a key on a keyboard would give me more of a tactile link to the "world" I am in, than "feeling" things in mid air, in the same way that holding a "virtual joystick" would feel wrong

A good Hotas with a good button setup would go some way to get that connected immersion, but again not being able to see your hands would give me a feeling of flying in a cockpilt full of smoke and disconected to my enviroment/controls in some way.

Perhaps I am thinking too old school but in a WWII sim the disconnect between visual and tactile seems a big gap to bridge. In a modern or space sim this could be amazing, but if I had to fly full IFR in a real A/C with just the relevant instruments displayed on a screen like a rift I would not feel comfortable. especially in a combat or emergency situation 

I am sure something will be thought of but at the moment that part of it seems, imho, to give less immersion than say a triple screen and a good hotas (when thinking of WWII flight sim)

 

Perhaps I am not being forward thinking enough as far as the tactile/visual interface could work, the argument that a pilot should know by feel where all his controls will be is just not a realistic one.

While the experience would certainly be amazing in itself there is still something big missing/yet to be developed to make this work as a "realistic" simulation

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[DD_bongodriver]

I can only speak from experience of being a real life pilot and a rift owner, I know I know......hardly qualifies me to make the comparison but I experience none of the negative aspects that the naysayers mention here.

[stiboo]

Good debate!

 

Hi Søren, yes forgot we have the mouse to use until virtual hands take over!  ( love your videos by the way! )

 

I think the idea is that in the near future your real life joystick is in a fixed position on your desk and you calibrate your virtual hands by holding the real joystick and check virtual hands are holding virtual joystick - so you still are using the real one ( while wearing a thin pair of gloves that detect your hand movement etc for in game movement...blaa blaa you get the idea... )

 

I've not tried the Rift yet - but it seems you have to use it to understand how amazing it is....

 

But scary stuff... wonder if my boss will let my work virtually from home ?!!

 

 

Simon

 

.

Edited October 24, 2013 by stiboo

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Don't understand all the negative comments.  For those worried about using the keyboard with the Rift, don't buy one.

 

I guess there were also people who said why would anyone need a computer?

 

Looking forward to the Rift.

[DD_bongodriver]

I guess some people are afraid that technological development might mean they have to spend a bit of money to continue the hobby.