Fw190A4 vs. Fw190A3

[III/JG2Gustav05]

It seems Fw190A4 has the same engine as A3 has,  MW50 is the main reason of A4 introduced. However the attempt of MW50 implement is delayed because BMW801D2 has big problems with it at that time.So I wonder does A4 have flight performance improvement comparing with A3?

[Wulf]

The cooling gills on the A-4 could be closed so presumably this will give you greater air speed in certain circumstances.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

The cooling gills on the A-4 could be closed so presumably this will give you greater air speed in certain circumstances.

No, the A5 was the first one with adjustable cooling gills (which brought a huge difference in speed, made it to the fastest German plane from zero alt up to 7000m)

[ShamrockOneFive]

I know the A-4 has an artificial horizon where the A-3 only has a turn and bank indicator. Also there are minor changes to the radio antenna. I'm sure there were a bunch of changes between the A-3 and A-4 but from what I understand the performance isn't really that different. The A-5 was another story with some more significant changes and even a longer nose.

[JtD]

Are you sure? It looks to me as if the artificial horizon came with the A-5, where A-2 to A-4 pretty much shared the same cockpit layout.

 

Other than that - no relevant performance difference, the reason for the new model designation was the change from the short wave FuG VIIa to the ultra short wave FuG 16Z. External difference was the antenna.

Edited March 23, 2015 by JtD

[Wulf]

No, the A5 was the first one with adjustable cooling gills (which brought a huge difference in speed, made it to the fastest German plane from zero alt up to 7000m)

 

 

"My first opportunity to fly the Focke-Wulf did not arise until 4 February 1944, the actual aircraft being the previously-mentioned Fw 190A-4/U8 PE882. This fighter had seen a lot of flying from the RAE and was destined, 10 weeks later, to be transferred to N° 1426 Flight at Collyweston with which it was to fly until 13 October 1944, when, after a fire in the air it was to crash on the road between Kettering and Stamford, demolishing there three walls before coming to rest in the garden of a house. On this cold February morning at Farnborough, however, the sad demise of this particular Focke-Wulf was still some way into the future, and despite the substantial number of hours that it had flown since reaching British hands, it gave every impression of youthfulness.

 

The BMW 802D engine was started by an inertia starter energized by a 24-volt external support or by the aircraft's own battery. The big radial was primed internally, both fuel tanks and pumps selected ON and the cooling gills set to one-third aperture. We had found that the BMW almost invariably fired first time and emitted a smooth purr as it ran, such being the case on this particular morning, and once i had familiarized myself with the self-centering tailwheel – a feature that had been criticized by some AFDU pilots – I found taxying the essence of simplicity as the fighter could be swung freely from side to side on its broad-track undercarriage. Furthermore, the brakes were very good, although the view with the tail down left much to be desired."

 

 

It's my understanding that some A-4s had gill flaps and some didn't.  I could well be wrong about that but maybe it was the case that they weren't issued as standard equipment until the A-5?

Edited March 23, 2015 by Wulf

[Saurer]

Are you sure? It looks to me as if the artificial horizon came with the A-5, where A-2 to A-4 pretty much shared the same cockpit layout.

 

Other than that - no relevant performance difference, the reason for the new model designation was the change from the short wave FuG VIIa to the ultra short wave FuG 16Z. External difference was the antenna.

 

With the Fug 16 it could have had the ANF2 indicator if I am not mistaken.

[StG2_Juuti]

Maybe the cooling gills were upgraded during a Factory maintainance. Some other improvements from latest version, were implemented with field modifikaton kits in older aircrafts.

[303_Kwiatek]

Surly late A-4 got cooling gills.

[Finkeren]

As opposed to cheerful late A-4s?

[II./JG77_Manu*]

The gills have been tested on a few A4s, they have been more or less prototyp for the A5. But they have been all but standard. It would have been more likely to see an A4 with working MW50, then one with gills.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Are you sure? It looks to me as if the artificial horizon came with the A-5, where A-2 to A-4 pretty much shared the same cockpit layout.

 

Other than that - no relevant performance difference, the reason for the new model designation was the change from the short wave FuG VIIa to the ultra short wave FuG 16Z. External difference was the antenna.

I was pretty certain but now that you're questioning it I seem to be having difficulty finding anything that proves my point

 

I'll see what I can dig up.

[III/JG2Gustav05]

No, the A5 was the first one with adjustable cooling gills (which brought a huge difference in speed, made it to the fastest German plane from zero alt up to 7000m)

That's interesting, Celestiale.

 

How big difference could be made by this adjustable gills implemented? no impact on the engine overheat? or that means previously the engine is not necessary cooled?

[303_Kwiatek]

 

Brief summary of the developmental history of the Fw 190 A-4

 

 

 

Approximately 900 Fw 190 A-4s were produced between June 1942 and March 1943. While equipped with the same BMW 801 D engine and same basic armament as the Fw 190 A-3, the Fw 190 A-4 differed from the A-3 in the use of a different radio, FuG VII up to A-3 and FuG 16 from A-4 on. This gave the A-4 a different antenna, a tail fin with a litte horn on top and a 6.5 kg increased weight. Consequently the (early) A-4 was very close to the A-3 in terms of performance. With the A-4 occured the transition from the gills to the split cooling flaps and the multi-purpose use (various U kits)

 

[Dr_Molenbeek]

From what i've read, flaps cooling have started to be used from the last A-4s.

[JtD]

A-5: "Starting with this model, adjustable cooling air outlets were installed in serial production."

 

A-4's were test models and refits. The August 1943 manuals of A-1 to A-4 list the adjustable flaps, and it can therefore be assumed that the refit was pretty much complete by that time. Off the assembly line, but not necessarily out of the factory, the A-4's came with gills.

 

@Shamrock: I've been looking myself and while Saurers assumption is generally right, the electrical plan for the A-4 dated March 1944 lists the Fl22406 turn and bank indicator and not the Fl22410 artificial horizon as the A-5 electrical plan.

Edited March 23, 2015 by JtD

[II./JG77_Manu*]

That's interesting, Celestiale.

 

How big difference could be made by this adjustable gills implemented? no impact on the engine overheat? or that means previously the engine is not necessary cooled?

 

Huge difference. At sea level the A5 made 567kph, thats over 30kph faster then the A3. The speed difference between those two is almost as significant as between the normal La5 and the La5Fn.

At full throttle altitude it reached 660, that's more then any 109 up to the G10. It's a huge performance increase from the A3 to the A5. Previous BMW overheating problems have been almost solved with the A5. If fast enough you could fly this bird with closed gills for ages, there is a lot of air coming into the radials anyway.. Definitely long enough for a dogfight. Equally to the La5 i would say. However sustained climb with closed one's is not a good idea 

[Willy__]

 

 

Huge difference. At sea level the A5 made 567kph, thats over 30kph faster then the A3. The speed difference between those two is almost as significant as between the normal La5 and the La5Fn. At full throttle altitude it reached 660, that's more then any 109 up to the G10. It's a huge performance increase from the A3 to the A5. Previous BMW overheating problems have been almost solved with the A5. If fast enough you could fly this bird with closed gills for ages, there is a lot of air coming into the radials anyway.. Definitely long enough for a dogfight. Equally to the La5 i would say. However sustained climb with closed one's is not a good idea 

 

Damn you Celestiale, now you made me want an A5 for BoS/BoM/next upcoming releases! 

[ShamrockOneFive]

A-5: "Starting with this model, adjustable cooling air outlets were installed in serial production."

 

A-4's were test models and refits. The August 1943 manuals of A-1 to A-4 list the adjustable flaps, and it can therefore be assumed that the refit was pretty much complete by that time. Off the assembly line, but not necessarily out of the factory, the A-4's came with gills.

 

@Shamrock: I've been looking myself and while Saurers assumption is generally right, the electrical plan for the A-4 dated March 1944 lists the Fl22406 turn and bank indicator and not the Fl22410 artificial horizon as the A-5 electrical plan.

 

That sounds pretty definitive then. I'm sure I misread whatever it was that I was looking at or they had the wrong source. Thanks for the info!

[Stig]

As opposed to cheerful late A-4s?

Well I got it at least

[JtD]

Damn you Celestiale, now you made me want an A5 for BoS/BoM/next upcoming releases!

It's not only faster, but also heavier. It will be worse at dogfighting than the A-3. My personal favourite therefore is the A-3, even though it climbs and turns more like an A-5 in game.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

It's not only faster, but also heavier. It will be worse at dogfighting than the A-3. My personal favourite therefore is the A-3, even though it climbs and turns more like an A-5 in game.

 

when you are using the A5 properly in fights, it's far superior. Faster, better role rate, more stable in a dive, and you can disengange a fight anytime you want, and run away without being possibly caught, as long as you have a bit of alt. Of course, as soon as you are going into a TnB fight, you are done, it's worse then the A3 in this deparment. But you don't wanna do this even with an A3. 

[303_Kwiatek]

Only thing which A-5 was better then A-3 was speed at low level. Rest ( climb, high alt speed, turn rate) was better for A-3/A-4.

[JtD]

when you are using the A5 properly in fights, it's far superior. Faster, better role rate, more stable in a dive, and you can disengange a fight anytime you want, and run away without being possibly caught, as long as you have a bit of alt. Of course, as soon as you are going into a TnB fight, you are done, it's worse then the A3 in this deparment. But you don't wanna do this even with an A3.

I also consider the A-5 the better fighter than the A-3 overall, due to the increased speed. Personally, I appreciate the better climb rate of the A-3 along with the lower wing loading, which make the aircraft while less successful, more fun to fly.

 

In a tactical evaluation, it could also be noted that the opposition the 1943 A-5 faces is faster than the opposition the 1942 A-3 faces, which kind of evens out this advantage. So in relation to the opposition, the Fw190 never was as good as it was at the very start, and then again after swapping the BMW801C for the BMW801D.

 

Why do you think roll rate on the A-5 is better than on the A-3?

 

Only thing which A-5 was better then A-3 was speed at low level. Rest ( climb, high alt speed, turn rate) was better for A-3/A-4.

Unless you refer to "high altitudes" as altitudes of 10km and more, the A-5 was faster than the earlier versions with cooling gills at high altitude as well. Edited March 25, 2015 by JtD

[III/JG2Gustav05]

it's interesting that Luftwaffe ACs do not have any performance improvement during 1943. But VVS takes an impressive improvement on theirs at same time. besides I notice that according to www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org FW190 A4 with 2 MG151 only setting, Kampfleistung gets 646km/h at 5700m, I remember according 1.007data we have only 622km/h at same condition. does anyone rise up this issue to 777team? and is there any response from them?

[JtD]

Germany's focus from 1942-1944 was very much on improving quantity and versatility of their aircraft, less about improving quality. Thus overall performance of their main fighter aircraft did not improve during this period.

[Jaws2002]

Germany's focus from 1942-1944 was very much on improving quantity and versatility of their aircraft, less about improving quality. Thus overall performance of their main fighter aircraft did not improve during this period.

Yep. Due to the performance edge the Germans had in 1942, they focused on numbers, while basically all allies pushed better performing fighters in 1943, to overcome the slight edge the Germans had.

Then, in 1943, the fighters they had in 42 got heavier weapons, with no performance boost. By the time better performing fighters came in second part of '44, it was already too late.

[adler_1]

so can i skin A4 to be used on A3 aircraft in game ?