Kittyhawk

[Sokol1]

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Nice ....

 

Chief

[SharpeXB]

Looks awesome. I hope DCS and its 3rd parties work to coordinate their products though. It seems looking at VEAOs potential lineup that there are a lot of unrelated aircraft that will have no period map or opponents. That's a crucial challenge for DCS as it expands out of the modern scenario.

I hope "Coming in 2015" is correct. Probably need to add a year or two to that... That VEAO lineup has been sitting there on the forum for years with no apparent results.

Edited March 16, 2015 by SharpeXB

[johncage]

they're not going to waste their money catering to this crowd. seriously who loads up dcs and says yeah time to fly a prop plane from the 40s or a trainer from the 70s!

 

the answer is a very tiny minority

 

the f-14 from leatherneck is going to kill the market and rejuvenate a whole series of modern legends. people will forget about the whole excursion into prop planes

Edited March 17, 2015 by johncage

[Feathered_IV]

Rubbish

[SOLIDKREATE]

I like the Wildcat at the end!

[Tektolnes]

they're not going to waste their money catering to this crowd. seriously who loads up dcs and says yeah time to fly a prop plane from the 40s or a trainer from the 70s!

 

the answer is a very tiny minority

 

the f-14 from leatherneck is going to kill the market and rejuvenate a whole series of modern legends. people will forget about the whole excursion into prop planes

 

Over 2,000 people have bought the Hawk already. That's about $100,000 in revenue so far. It's likely already starting to verge on profitable which is a great payback period for any product. There's no doubt the F-14 will be wildly successful once it's finally released but there's still significant demand for other planes out there that help bring in revenue more quickly than a long, time consuming project like the F-14. The excursion into prop planes is absolutely here to stay and the plane set is going to be a lot wider than modern legends. 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Over 2,000 people have bought the Hawk already. That's about $100,000 in revenue so far. It's likely already starting to verge on profitable which is a great payback period for any product. There's no doubt the F-14 will be wildly successful once it's finally released but there's still significant demand for other planes out there that help bring in revenue more quickly than a long, time consuming project like the F-14. The excursion into prop planes is absolutely here to stay and the plane set is going to be a lot wider than modern legends.

 

"Modern legends" heh.

Honestly I hope the dcs devs, ED and the 3rd parties, stay away from ww2. Leathernecks mig21 is outstanding one can really appreciate the time and dedication they put into that module. The same cannot be said for the ww2 aircraft. They are rushed and bugged. Thrown out to appease the kickstarter backers. Most of those are happy with anything after the propaganda shoved down their throats when ilya was fired. The game engine is designed for radar fights. The spotting is atrocious and I don't see that changing when/if Endlessly Delayed Graphics Engine is released.

I'd rather 2 outstanding post war aircraft than 12 rushed for revenue ww2 props with zero support. It sounds to me you may want to try war thunder. It sounds right up your street.

[fdswer]

"Modern legends" heh.

Honestly I hope the dcs devs, ED and the 3rd parties, stay away from ww2. Leathernecks mig21 is outstanding one can really appreciate the time and dedication they put into that module. The same cannot be said for the ww2 aircraft. They are rushed and bugged. Thrown out to appease the kickstarter backers. Most of those are happy with anything after the propaganda shoved down their throats when ilya was fired. The game engine is designed for radar fights. The spotting is atrocious and I don't see that changing when/if Endlessly Delayed Graphics Engine is released.

I'd rather 2 outstanding post war aircraft than 12 rushed for revenue ww2 props with zero support. It sounds to me you may want to try war thunder. It sounds right up your street.

 

The WW2 birds in DCS are pretty decent and do some things better than BOS.  Leatherneck will probably be doing WW2 in the future as well and I cant wait.  It sounds like you dont really have any experience in the ww2 planes. 

[nirvi]

"Modern legends" heh.

Honestly I hope the dcs devs, ED and the 3rd parties, stay away from ww2. Leathernecks mig21 is outstanding one can really appreciate the time and dedication they put into that module. The same cannot be said for the ww2 aircraft. They are rushed and bugged. Thrown out to appease the kickstarter backers. Most of those are happy with anything after the propaganda shoved down their throats when ilya was fired. The game engine is designed for radar fights. The spotting is atrocious and I don't see that changing when/if Endlessly Delayed Graphics Engine is released.

I'd rather 2 outstanding post war aircraft than 12 rushed for revenue ww2 props with zero support. It sounds to me you may want to try war thunder. It sounds right up your street.

 

I hope more 3rd parties will start developing WW2 birds for DCS. Leatherneck is already working on one or more WW2 modules. The aircraft are fantastic, never had more fun dogfighting with these old birds. There is still a lot to do regarding the visual damage model and visibility of aircraft, but these things will be adressed in DCS 2.0/EDGE. 

[Tektolnes]

+1 Fdswer & Nirvi. The current WW2 planes in DCS are good high fidelity planes and dogfighting in them is a level of challenge above BOS in my opinion. There's definitely some issues but things are moving in the right direction. Anyway people complaining about WW2 planes in DCS are just pissing in the wind as they're here to stay. More people want them and devs want to make them.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Tektolnes

[9./JG27golani79]

I´ll never get those who are so stubborn to say that devs shouldn´t work on anything else than modern jets.

 

I kinda like it that there are planes from so many different areas offered for DCS as all of them have something special to them.

Having a lot of fun dogfighting in the WWII birds but also with flying the other aircraft on different servers.

 

If the future should bring a dev who´d make WW I planes I´d also wouldn´t mind .. but hey .. just my opinion that more diversity isn´t a bad thing for DCS.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

It's the modern setting of the DSC flyable world that puts me off really getting into that title, I hope they are genuinely working on some WWII modules. It's undeniable that the FM's are astounding. I also like the clickable control systems from the cockpit (something I wish BoS had) but modern jets don't really do it for me and beyond-visual-range missiles are no fun at all!

[Rolling_Thunder]

Fdswer...I was one of the dumbasses that bought into the kickstarter so yeah I do have experience with the ww2 planes. I have them all. I don't fly them the wings on the 109 fall off if you sneeze.

Original custard... the problem with ww2 in dcs is thAt beyond-visual-range is 2km

[Tektolnes]

Yo-Yo has said that although this has been improved there's still a bug with accumulated stress on the 109 wing. It'll be fixed in order that 7.5g is the limit load and 10.5g will be the ultimate load. The other WW2 planes don't have this issue so I'm sure it'll get sorted out. The spotting issue is being worked on too. Edge will help some as the ground detail will be clearer and planes won't be lost in the clutter. ED are working on the LODs for WW2 planes as well to make their visibility better - previously there had been some bugs which made them nearly impossible to to see past a certain distance. 

[Chuck_Owl]

they're not going to waste their money catering to this crowd. seriously who loads up dcs and says yeah time to fly a prop plane from the 40s or a trainer from the 70s!

 

the answer is a very tiny minority

 

the f-14 from leatherneck is going to kill the market and rejuvenate a whole series of modern legends. people will forget about the whole excursion into prop planes

 

What an ABSOLUTE load of nonsense.

[fdswer]

Fdswer...I was one of the dumbasses that bought into the kickstarter so yeah I do have experience with the ww2 planes. I have them all. I don't fly them the wings on the 109 fall off if you sneeze.

Original custard... the problem with ww2 in dcs is thAt beyond-visual-range is 2km

 

Thats the risk of buying into kickstarter you have only yourself to blame

[SOLIDKREATE]

What an ABSOLUTE load of nonsense.

 

Yeah I know right, they only made Fw-190D and Bf-109K-4 and P-51D........... but hey it's a waste of time right.

[SharpeXB]

Thats the risk of buying into kickstarter you have only yourself to blame

I put my money on Kickstarter too as a show of support despite the risk. ED gave me 2 free planes worth $100 for my $40 donation so that's more than fair.

[Feathered_IV]

Any word on that Normandy map, or has that been cancelled?

[Chuck_Owl]

Still in the works. Southern England might also be included. 

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=135412

[nirvi]

Any word on that Normandy map, or has that been cancelled?

This is from the DCS September Newsletter:

 

The other major element of DCS World War II: Europe 1944 is of course the new Normandy map. The team is currently working on a new combat theater map to support DCS: F/A-18C Hornet, but once complete, will be returning to this map. At that time, we should be able to start sharing images of the new era map, complete with period ground units.

[SharpeXB]

The same cannot be said for the ww2 aircraft. They are rushed and bugged. Thrown out to appease the kickstarter backers.

These DCS aircraft are certainly the most detailed, best realized versions of these planes ever put on a PC sim. If they are not up to your standards I suggest you find a new hobby as you are not likely to ever be satisfied by this one.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Thats the risk of buying into kickstarter you have only yourself to blame

What's your point there bud?

These DCS aircraft are certainly the most detailed, best realized versions of these planes ever put on a PC sim. If they are not up to your standards I suggest you find a new hobby as you are not likely to ever be satisfied by this one.

That is your opinion and you totally missed the point.

I put my money on Kickstarter too as a show of support despite the risk. ED gave me 2 free planes worth $100 for my $40 donation so that's more than fair.

what was the risk? If they didn't reach the kickstarter goal no money would of left your account. If rrg didn't fulfill the rewards you would have got your money back. There was no risk. Not until ED fired ilya and changed the deal. Also...If you paid $40, you didn't get them for free, a 5 year old could tell you that.

[SharpeXB]

That is your opinion and you totally missed the point.

You act as if there's a sim out there with a better P-51D in it.

[SharpeXB]

Not until ED fired ilya and changed the deal.

I don't believe ED "fired" Ilya, RRG was a 3rd party company. Was Ilya an employee of ED? The "deal" was pretty unrealistic. For $40 you were going to get every plane in the package. 2 planes worth $100 for $40 is a fine deal. I didn't want my money back, I want a WWII sim. I could care less about $40.00

Edited March 19, 2015 by SharpeXB

[fdswer]

What's your point there bud?

 

 

That I see lots of people in forums these days complaining about buying into a idea that has a high chance of drastic changes at release, if it even comes out at all.  If you buy into a kick starter and cant accept those facts than you shouldn't be buying into them or you don't understand what kick starter is.

[Rolling_Thunder]

That I see lots of people in forums these days complaining about buying into a idea that has a high chance of drastic changes at release, if it even comes out at all.  If you buy into a kick starter and cant accept those facts than you shouldn't be buying into them or you don't understand what kick starter is.

That's a fair point and I certainly won't be doing it again. Unfortunately it has nothing to do with the post you quoted. I was pointing out to you that I did indeed have experience with the ww2 aircraft.

 

You act as if there's a sim out there with a better P-51D in it.

  

It really doesn't matter if it is a 100% acurate P-51. The spotting in DCS is atrocious and makes for a very poor ww2 simulation. If you want to play with icons that's up to you, I don't.

I don't believe ED "fired" Ilya, RRG was a 3rd party company. Was Ilya an employee of ED? The "deal" was pretty unrealistic. For $40 you were going to get every plane in the package. 2 planes worth $100 for $40 is a fine deal. I didn't want my money back, I want a WWII sim. I could care less about $40.00

re-read the kickstarter and stop quoting the propaganda. It was a joint venture between RRG and ED. It wasn't a sole RRG project. you didn't want your money back but many did. Well I guess you're all right Jack. Remind me not to fly with you, you seem to have quite a selfish attitude I'd hate to be stuck with you as my wingman.

[FlatSpinMan]

Can everyone calm down a bit here?

[SharpeXB]

The spotting in DCS is atrocious and makes for a very poor ww2 simulation.

I don't think spotting in DCS is too horrible but I agree BoS and RoF are better. Hopefully EDGE improves DCS in this regard. It makes the modern air to air even more difficult than WWII because of the greater range and speed. Ground objects are actually quite easy to spot. I don't use labels either but usually fly the A-10C with its targeting pod.

[SharpeXB]

you didn't want your money back but many did

Most of the backers contributed in the $40-50 range. Not an ammount that's worth getting so upset over. Plus they were all compensated fairly by ED.

Edited March 19, 2015 by SharpeXB

[SharpeXB]

In any case. Why would Kickstarter backers want their money back? The project didn't fail, it was just taken over by new management. But it's still going to be delivered.

In terms of development funds the ammount raised was quite small. I think the FM for a single DCS plane would spend all of it.

[Rolling_Thunder]

In any case. Why would Kickstarter backers want their money back? The project didn't fail, it was just taken over by new management. But it's still going to be delivered.

In terms of development funds the ammount raised was quite small. I think the FM for a single DCS plane would spend all of it.

From the kickstarter page

 

The project is a joint venture between RRG Studios and Eagle Dynamics.

 

RRG Studios brings over 10 years of experience with WWII flight simulations to the table. Staffed with flight sim veterans that worked on the greatest WWII flight sim series of the 21st century, we literally wrote the book on the new generation of flight sims.

 

Eagle Dynamics is the studio responsible for the biggest modern aviation sims of the past twenty years. In-house experts have industry-best experience with physics, avionics, ballistics, and all other components that go into making a successful flight simulation. Eagle Dynamics continues to redefine the genre and continuously sets the bar high with each new release.

 

The Fighter Collection is the company that manages Eagle Dynamics. It is based in Cambridge, England, and it operates Europe’s largest fleet of airworthy WWII aircraft. The Fighter Collection runs the annual Flying Legends airshow, giving us unprecedented access to the aircraft we simulate.

 

100% of the funds received will go towards the project.

 

The money being raised is only a portion of the development budget. The majority of the programming, some aircraft art, and more, are the costs that the team is funding internally.

 

The initial kickstarter goal is needed to fund a longer more extensive beta testing period for the game, giving all its components extra polish, and to make the game landscape more alive by creating a larger variety of ground objects and vehicles, and spending more time to hand-craft various historical areas such as accurate recreations of more coastline villages, important bridges, unique airfields, and more.

 

I'll say it again and again... re-read the kickstarter page. What you have been told by the moderators of eagle dynamics forum is not the truth. I read the kickstarter before I made my pledge. I read it after the changes and I couldn't believe that folk fell for the garbage being posted on the forums and still do.

Anyhoo I'll do my ww2 flying elsewhere. I'll definitely support leatherneck, their module,the mig 21, is head and shoulders above the others and their pledge to release maps with their future modules puts them head and shoulders above the other 3rd party devs who release endless betas.

[SharpeXB]

R_B

Of course I read the Kickstarter page. I backed it.

Honestly none of what you're saying makes any sense

 

You said the DCS WWII planes are:

"rushed and bugged."

Rushed is not the word I'd use to describe DCS products. It took over a year, probably two to finish the Dora. Yet you think it was "rushed"? Once again these aircraft are probably the best and most detailed WWII planes you are likely to ever see in a PC sim.

 

"Thrown out to appease the kickstarter backers."

You said you are a Kickstarter backer. So you're upset they appeased you by giving you the product you funded?

 

Then you say:

"The spotting in DCS is atrocious and makes for a very poor ww2 simulation."

If this is your opinion why did you back the DCS WWII project if it's a "very poor ww2 sim"?

 

You seem to have a high opinion of the MiG-21 which I agree is a very nice product. Yet you continue to hurl nonsensical hate bombs at ED, without whom, Leatherneck would have no sim. That's certainly unproductive.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

they're not going to waste their money catering to this crowd. seriously who loads up dcs and says yeah time to fly a prop plane from the 40s or a trainer from the 70s!

 

the answer is a very tiny minority

 

the f-14 from leatherneck is going to kill the market and rejuvenate a whole series of modern legends. people will forget about the whole excursion into prop planes

How bad do you have it that you force yourself to deny reality so hard that the fabric of space-time begins to warp around it?

[FlatSpinMan]

Back to the Kittyhawk topic.

[Nankeen]

Thanks for sharing Sokol1

[Rolling_Thunder]

R_B

Of course I read the Kickstarter page. I backed it.

Honestly none of what you're saying makes any sense

You said the DCS WWII planes are:

"rushed and bugged."

Rushed is not the word I'd use to describe DCS products. It took over a year, probably two to finish the Dora. Yet you think it was "rushed"? Once again these aircraft are probably the best and most detailed WWII planes you are likely to ever see in a PC sim.

"Thrown out to appease the kickstarter backers."

You said you are a Kickstarter backer. So you're upset they appeased you by giving you the product you funded?

Then you say:

"The spotting in DCS is atrocious and makes for a very poor ww2 simulation."

If this is your opinion why did you back the DCS WWII project if it's a "very poor ww2 sim"?

You seem to have a high opinion of the MiG-21 which I agree is a very nice product. Yet you continue to hurl nonsensical hate bombs at ED, without whom, Leatherneck would have no sim. That's certainly unproductive.

I really don't think you read the kickstarter beyond the aircraft. It was supposed to be a stand alone dcs ww2 Europe 1944, an improvement on the existing dcs world. With improvements to multiplayer. Training and campaigns for each aircraft. An sdk for the backers. There was so much more in the kickstarter than the aircraft. All ED are giving us is the aircraft no training no tutorials, hence rushed, and a map sometime in the future. Which is not all that I pledged my money for. Maybe you can't see beyond the aircraft and map but gameplay is important to myself and others. If one cannot see other aircraft beyond 2km there is no gameplay no matter how well you model the aircraft. The ed forum moderators have pretty much said that spotting isn't going to change when EDGE is released.

I quote "Dont expect any major changes with 2.0 at release. What we need to do is wait and see how the new graphics engine effect things, along with new maps, etc and go from there."

the "product I funded" was much more than aircraft and a map. I really hope that has cleared up your confusion with my posting on this topic. If not feel free to pm me.

Back on topic

Edited March 24, 2015 by Rolling_Blunder

[SharpeXB]

As far as I have seen, all that is still planned for DCS. The Normandy map etc. As much as I like DCS and hope to see a decent WWII era emerge for it, the quality and complexity of the planes in a study sim like that make it quite a challenge for DCS to create a combat sim like BoS. I think ED has a better chance of getting it accomplished than RRG did. It's going to take significant 3rd party involvement as well.

[SharpeXB]

All ED are giving us is the aircraft no training no tutorials,

There are training tutorial missions for the P-51D and the Dora. I haven't checked the Kurfurst yet, it's still in Beta. The planes have "challenge" campaigns which is all they can do at the moment without a period map and AI.