Why Did I Pay For The 190, When I Can't Even Get It Off The Ground?

[HackelsRoss]

Please don't get me wrong... I hate to complain but. I have thousands of hours of combat fighter simulator practice. How many sims pilots can say the they can fly a 109 F4 without being in the plane? Thats turning it around too.

My problem is, I've tried at least a dozen time to taxi the (focke-wulf 190) to the runway and take off. But it just ground loops on me?

 Please tell me how to lock tail wheel, or what am I not doing right???

 

Sincerely, Scott64

[6./ZG26_Custard]

P

 

Please don't get me wrong... I hate to complain but. I have thousands of hours of combat fighter simulator practice. How many sims pilots can say the they can fly a 109 F4 without being in the plane? Thats turning it around too.

My problem is, I've tried at least a dozen time to taxi the (focke-wulf 190) to the runway and take off. But it just ground loops on me?

 Please tell me how to lock tail wheel, or what am I not doing right???

 

Sincerely, Scott64

Pulling back slightly on the stick locks the tail wheel. Once you are moving at pace slowing release the back pressure so the tail end lifts and get that bird airborne.

Edited March 2, 2015 by OriginalCustard

[Capt_Stubing]

The ground handling in the game is silly and over exaggerated. How do I know I've many hours in various tail draggers...Differential braking is a bit goofy too.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

The ground handling in the game is silly and over exaggerated. How do I know I've many hours in various tail draggers...Differential braking is a bit goofy too.

I have to admit it is a bit sensitive but I wonder if the Devs are trying to simulate icy conditions? The 190 can be very twitchy in the air too though.

[=AVG=Zombie]

Pull all the way back to lock tail wheel.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Pull all the way back to lock tail wheel.

I find on my stick if I pull all the way back it handles like a bitch during take off. Halfway seems the happy medium, I suppose it depends what you are using?

[BlitzPig_EL]

The ground handling in the game is silly and over exaggerated. How do I know I've many hours in various tail draggers...Differential braking is a bit goofy too.

 

Totally agree. 

 

I flew the 190 for the first time over the weekend.  It's ground handling is a complete joke. Worst plane in the sim in it's ground handling.  Sure would not expect that with it's wonderful wide track undercarriage.

 

It could be the poster child for a drunk driving simulator.

[SimHog]

You don't hold the stick back until you rotate, once you obtain rudder authority move the stick forward enough to allow for a gentle climb.

 

Practice makes perfect.

[D_Konig]

I thought it was just a wildly out of control beast that couldnt be tamed until I found out you had to lock tail wheel with the stick.... problem solved.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I have to admit it is a bit sensitive but I wonder if the Devs are trying to simulate icy conditions? The 190 can be very twitchy in the air too though.

 

 

[LukeFF]

 

 

Please elaborate.

[Uriah]

I say spend time just taxing about.  I spent a lot of time doing that and finally got full good control of the beast.  And you have to play with the breaks as much as with the rudder.  After learning that I was able to control all the planes so much better than when I used rudder alone.  What convinced me was a report from some British pilots on a captured FW 190.  I think it was some version of the A.  The author of the report wrote about having to user the breaks to keep the plane going straight down the runway.  

 

Then after a long stint away from flying this beast I tried again and almost had to start over.  I agree it seems overdone.  But my point is that it is quite controllable.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Please elaborate.

Is this the part where you invalidate my reasoning by saying "No, I'm right." without providing any foundational reasoning yourself?

 

There is no ice. Ground handling is wrong. It's off. It is not realistic. FIN.

[BlitzPig_EL]

What Adler said.

 

Can the 190 (and the other aircraft in the sim) be taxied without constant ground loops? 

 

Yes, with a lot of practice.

 

However, that does not mean that it is correct.

 

There has been a problem with ground handling all along, and it has not been improved over time.

[Urra]

Pull the stick back and power to 35%,  once rolling at a good sprint you can navigate the taxiways without unlocking the back wheel by applying different pressure to left or right pedal. Flight rudder pedals help tremendously with this.

[CUJO_1970]

You can watch many videos of real FW190 being taxied and it just looks really really easy.

 

Watch here at 2:43 with a couple of great shots of the rear wheel castoring at 15:35 and especially at 18:16:

 

 

It is painstaking to do this in the sim. IMO the castor is way too free and loose and you are constantly trying to prevent the aircraft from going into a ground loop.

 

A great training video for FW190 in BoS can be found here:

 

[Jaws2002]

Once i got the engine started, in the 190, the stick goes in the belly, and don't release the pressure until I'm going down the runway at over 100km/h. All the turns and taxing is done with rudder and brakes, while the stick is fully back (tail wheel locked).

Got used to it now now. However, that doesn't mean it's right.

[SharpeXB]

You can watch many videos of real FW190 being taxied and it just looks really really easy.

That's because the pilots in the video are experts.

 

There's a good saying in German

Es ist noch kein Meister vom Himmel gefallen.

"No master falls from heaven."

 

Practice makes perfect.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

That's because the pilots in the video are experts.

 

There's a good saying in German

Es ist noch kein Meister vom Himmel gefallen.

"No master falls from heaven."

 

Practice makes perfect.

 

Ask Nowotny, Bartels, Lutzow, Oesau and Ehrler about that...

 

Don't put lipstick on a pig. Practice makes perfect, yes... Practice does not make right.

[SharpeXB]

Ask Nowotny, Bartels, Lutzow, Oesau and Ehrler about that..

I didn't ask them. Did you?

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I didn't ask them. Did you?

 

They certainly fell from the sky, no?

 

If you're convinced that ground handling is correct as it is, than I think we are done here. 

[SharpeXB]

They certainly fell from the sky, no?

 

If you're convinced that ground handling is correct as it is, than I think we are done here. 

If I understand the saying correctly it means an expert doesn't just happen, "fall from the sky" meaning to just appear out of nowhere, they have to practice to be an expert. Correct or not BoS like all flight sims just takes practice. Unless you've got a real FW 190 to taxi in how do you know what's accurate in any case? It's rather a pointless argument.

The pilot in the video ground handling the plane is no doubt an expert test pilot. Of course it looks easy for him.

[SharpeXB]

That's a great show on the 190

Haha. Watch the expert FW test pilot bounce the landing in the prototype! It happens to all of us :-D

Edited March 3, 2015 by SharpeXB

[Sokol1]

I use Truck Simulator to drive around, the planes I prefer to start on runway. 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I'm currently in the process of reporting th directional instable roll behaviour of the 190 with unlocked tailwheel. If anybody here knows some refference for it pls pass it ot me so I can include it in my report.

 

I agree the unlocked tailwheel behaviour just seems physically absurd. It's a real downer for me as I love to start up my planes and taxi to the TO point which is always painfull in the 190.

 

The only way to taxi it sucessfully is with constantly locked tailwheel and heavy brake usage, which apparently is just the opposite of what the manual instructed. But that's obviously a different story...

 

Edit: Here is a practical taxi test I included in my report...just in case it might be considered by the devs .

Fw 190 90° turns with unlocked tailwheel ground test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8AVw8s7wWE&

Edited March 3, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

 

I was being ironic

[No601_Swallow]

A squadronmate suggested putting German brakes on the rotation axis on the joystick. Once you've got it sorted out, it works beautifully. It's intuitive and easy and makes taxiing (and controlling yaw at the start of the take-off roll) mindlessly easy.

 

I actually like taxiing around in the German aircraft now. I do agree that taxiing seems overly difficult, but it's hardly a game-breaker.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Not saying it's right but it's not exactly hard once u know to put the stick back + use a bit of breaks

[GP*]

Do you guys really think you lock a tail wheel to assist with turning in real life?

 

These boards are hilarious.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Do you guys really think you lock a tail wheel to assist with turning in real life?

 

These boards are hilarious.

I think we are quite clearly saying u lock the wheel to go in a straight line unlock for a turn

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I think we are quite clearly saying u lock the wheel to go in a straight line unlock for a turn

If so pls provide a video. My test above was conducted with engine power cut and at very slow speed, unlockign the tailwheel, applyign rudder and eventually very little brake usage. The result was as seen in the video.

 

Again with the wide undercarriage it should behave stable and not show tremendous ground looping tendencies ones little rudder/brake is being applied.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I will make a track later but in ur defence the way I turn the 190 is to slow almost to a stop, unlock the tail wheel give a burst of power to get the rotation going and then lock it again after straightening up.

[Yakdriver]

That original questions is sooo funny.

why did you pay?
because you wanted it.

 

why can you not take off?
because you have not learned how to take of the BoS Würger in the BoS environment.

 

question answered, thread closed.

 

Please, Guys, please take a moment to choose an appropriate Thread Title.

THINK before you start a Tread,

especially when you feel you need to vent.

it will make your thread, and ultimately, the content and people involved, more credible.

 

"Fw woes when taxiing"

"Hard time getting the Fw down the runway, any help?"

"Fw-190 bites me when i taxi or take off - can you guys give me a few tips?"

"God-damned Fw-  how to get her in the air?

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I will make a track later but in ur defence the way I turn the 190 is to slow almost to a stop, unlock the tail wheel give a burst of power to get the rotation going and then lock it again after straightening up.

Thats fine but not the way you see them behaving in real recordings for example.

 

You should be able to turn it on the move while taxiing with unlocked tailwheel (as said turning with fully locked wheel was forbidden).

 

Another test you might conduct is to put it on the runway at no windy condition, roll straight and accelerate to about 30 - 50 km/h.

 

Than cut throttle, let the engine settle at idle RPM, leave any rudder and brake input neutral and push your stick to center.

 

I did this test with both 109s and the 190 and the 109 ironicly kept going straight in most of the cases (or slightly turning) while the 190 entered a vicious ground loop the moment i unlocked the tailwheel.

 

Maybe you can confirm those observations.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I use the unlocked for tight turns only, if taxing at speed I will keep it locked for shallow turns. FYI I would expect it to ground loop at 30-50 with tail wheel unlocked, with no inputs and no power. WheN u tried this with other aircraft did u defo unlock the tail whewheel? The Lagg for instance will loop like a b***h if u are not.concentrating

Edited March 3, 2015 by AeroAce

[Letka_13/Arrow_]

I have no problems in taxiing with FW-190 after I've learned to taxi Lagg which has no tail wheel lock. It just needs a lot of practice and quick feet to counter any ground loop tendency in its beginning, once the loop starts it is unstoppable. 

[KoN_]

All i use is brakes left and right and rudder control , i dont unlock the tail wheel , add some power and flaps taxi . in the 109 and yak , i find the tail wheel over sensative .

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I use the unlocked for tight turns only, if taxing at speed I will keep it locked for shallow turns. FYI I would expect it to ground loop at 30-50 with tail wheel unlocked, with no inputs and no power. WheN u tried this with other aircraft did u defo unlock the tail whewheel? The Lagg for instance will loop like a b***h if u are not.concentrating

Given you practise that test slowly and carefully it will be slower at the point of unlocking the wheel. The said speed is just the mark at which you have to start the prcedure as the engines.takes some time to settle at min rpm while your plane naturally slows down. It's better to understand once you practised it.

 

And even at such speeds speeds - given theres no relevant force pushing it sideways - it shouldnt ground loop. Slightly turn, yes. Not ground loop viciously.

 

 

That said even the 109, which is way lighter and has a narrower landing gear, acts way more stable and plausible. In myopinion the 109 is one of the most realisticly modeled planes on ground and clearly shows what the 190 is seriously lacking.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Fair play I except that there may be some inaccuracies in the way it is modeled but it is defo easy enough to taxi and nothing is broken to the extent of what the op is talking about. Also even if it is wrong( I see u are doing it from a test standpoint) taking power off and unlocking the tail wheel, with no control inputs is something u would never normally do anyway. So yes maybe it is slightly wrong but not a show stopper

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Well good for you than. I totally dislike the behaviour ingame and consider it physically wrong.

 

Given the very few factors we have to consider ingame due to a greatly reduced physical envirounment it should be even better to handle than real accounts say. A behaviour as shown ingame is anything but reasonable and safe and would have blamed Kurt Tank seriously.

 

I get you discredit my test which is fine. Of coirse no one did so in reality since it's should not be nessecary in order to steer the plame stable on ground. I picked these testing conditions to minimise the physical forces (wind, torque, rudder/aileround induced movement) for clearer results, the pure natural behaviour of the airplane.

 

It's not a question about doing it, I can taxi t fine if I want to. It's a question of realism and coming to a full stop for every slight turn with unlocled tialwheel or abusimg yoir wheelbrakes which would cook off in reality under such stress isnt nowhere near realistic to me.

 

I can only advise to take a ride in the other sims Dora. I wouldnt call ot perfect but its ground handling is way more natural and according to historic accoints (plus abuse is actually punished with exploding tires).

Edited March 3, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka