JG4_sKylon Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 Hello folks, after the last big patch and free unlock for founders i decided to give BoS another test. I think the game is moving forward, but i have 2 questions left i´d like to ask here. 1. Rudder has not much authority, only little lateral movement before plane rolls. Feels like additional ailerons instead of rudders. Is this something that will be looked into or will it stay like this? 2. there is a delay between control input and reaction of the plane. Coming from CLOD it feels strange for me, but i don´t say it is wrong. My subjective sweet spot might be between CLods "fly on rails" as some say and BOS "brainlag" model. Is there any discussion about it in this forum? S!
Jupp Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 ~S` sKylon, This is not as off topic as it may seem. There are a lot of things you can do to work around your preferences concerning joystick input / response time, etc. There are configurators, brand specific, and even Windows software itself if you delve into curves and bands and such. Some great theory, method, and application about all of that which may be gleaned from this video. Trust, watch, and see. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWloc43J1HY
JG4_sKylon Posted March 2, 2015 Author Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) ~S` sKylon, This is not as off topic as it may seem. There are a lot of things you can do to work around your preferences concerning joystick input / response time, etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWloc43J1HY Hi Jupp and thanks for your reply. I think i was not exact enough in my first post. The input/response delay i am talking about is not between JS and BOS... the virtual stick in the cockpit moves normal, but the plane responses to any control input are delayed compared to Cliffs of Dover. I don´t know which games is closer to reality, i just wanted to ask whether this is subject of any discussion here. Edit:far more important for me is the simulation of the rudder. I really don´t like it right now. S! Edited March 2, 2015 by JG4_sKylon
BlackDevil Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 1. Rudder has not much authority, only little lateral movement before plane rolls. Feels like additional ailerons instead of rudders. 2. there is a delay between control input and reaction of the plane. Coming from CLOD it feels strange for me, but i don´t say it is wrong. My subjective sweet spot might be between CLods "fly on rails" as some say and BOS "brainlag" model. Is there any discussion about it in this forum? 1. this has been discussed a few times - and I think most did agree. 2. I don't think there is any lag between input and reaction
JG4_sKylon Posted March 2, 2015 Author Posted March 2, 2015 1. this has been discussed a few times - and I think most did agree. 2. I don't think there is any lag between input and reaction Thanks BlackDevil, 1. if most did agree what is the developers point of view on this subject? Will there be any tweaking on the rudders in the future? 2. do you play Cliffs? Maybe it is just because i am used to Cliffs, but there is definitely a difference between the 2 sims when it comes to input/reaction.
Leaf Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) Regarding the rudder, yes I agree, it feels odd. A weird sense of the plane not knowing what to do at large amounts of rudder input and then going " I think I'm just gonna roll now". It may have something to do with the way the game handles joystick inputs. On the Rise of Flight forums one of the devs explained it really well, but I can't find it right now. I might check again later. Be gentle with it and the rudder is fine, but it takes some getting used to. I suffer no lag between joystick input and the plane's reaction. In the control settings there should be an option for "devices", maybe try playing with the noise filter for the joystick? Or the response curves? Edited March 2, 2015 by 19te.Leaf
SharpeXB Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 I'm no expert but it seems normal that the rudder should always cause some roll in addition to yaw. That's normal.
303_Kwiatek Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Ahh you surly haven't tried new Sabre vs Mig game I think it kick all what we got until now BTW in DCS are possible much better sideslips then in BOS. Edited March 3, 2015 by 303_Kwiatek
kestrel79 Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 What do you guys have your rudder pedals set at in game? I have CH pedals and they seem very touchy stock settings.
SharpeXB Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 What do you guys have your rudder pedals set at in game? I have CH pedals and they seem very touchy stock settings. I have CH too and like them a lot. I give about a 10% curve on most sims. Probably they are a bit closer together than most real pedals but they're smooth and very durable.
JG4_sKylon Posted March 3, 2015 Author Posted March 3, 2015 Hi folks, so far there is some agreement on the rudder behaving "different" than expected in terms of authority, but nobody feels the "input/reaction" delay i experience in comparison to Cliffs. Asked some of my squad mates who play Cliffs and BoS, they have the same feeling i have (about input/reaction). So i think there is definitely a difference but the question is whether Cliffs or BoS are closer to reality. I can´t answer that one, but it doesn´t bother me that much. Have to fly more BoS to get used to it. But the rudder is really bugging me. Do you guys know whether the devs will look into - rudder authority? - slipping not causing loss of speed? S!
KoN_ Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 S! sKylon you are right about the rudder inputs , that they behave like ailerons , when i turn in a 109 i give rudder input to tighten the turn ,the aircraft starts to roll over and i have to correct myself quite a bit and on some occasions i have no control of flight , the Fm are very different to cliffs . I still feel that my joystick settings input are not quite right in this game , even though i have tried different settings to no avail .
unreasonable Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 I suppose I find the rudder action in BoS fairly natural because I have flown so much Rise of Flight. In the WW1 planes the rudder was used to put the plane into a bank, the ailerons more for fine control, at least as I understand reading pilot accounts of flying replicas. The effect in BoS is much less marked than that, but you still have to keep rudder in the mind. Flying the 109 I found that reducing my rudder sensitivity from 100% to about 60% and adding a very small dead zone gave much better control and less twitchiness.
JG4_sKylon Posted March 3, 2015 Author Posted March 3, 2015 In regards to what is closer to real, we now have two excellent top sims which behave pretty much the same way regarding rudder authority for the Bf109 K4 vs / F4, G2, and the Fw190 D9 vs / A3, namely - il2 BoS 1.0.0.9 - DCS 1.2.15 Since both are designed with special attention to detail and accuracy by their Dev teams, I'd say, they're probably the closest to real you can get ? When the rudder is modeled in BoS and DCS this way, i take that as indication that it is modeled closer to reality than in Cliffs. I still don´t like it, but then i am willing to adapt to it. Thanks for this info.
-TBC-AeroAce Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Iv read reports that the tree 109 can be flown in the roll axis alone just by rudder and no aileron
BlackDevil Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 But the rudder is really bugging me. Do you guys know whether the devs will look into - rudder authority? - slipping not causing loss of speed? S! The rudder authority was wrong in the beginning, but has been corrected. Slipping does induce lots of drag. There is nothing wrong. My only complaint is the induced roll, what seems to be too high.
JG4_sKylon Posted March 3, 2015 Author Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) The rudder authority was wrong in the beginning, but has been corrected. Slipping does induce lots of drag. There is nothing wrong. I don´t know how it was in the beginning so i don´t know the difference now. Compared to Cliffs you lose very little speed when slipping which caused me some problems during landings in BoS (besides the bouncing when going down to fast). Edited March 3, 2015 by JG4_sKylon
BlackDevil Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Compared to Cliffs you lose very little speed when slipping which caused me some problems during landings in BoS (besides the bouncing when going down to fast). About slipping (which induces lots of drag in BoS): http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14008-slipping-109/ About not to bounce: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14733-landings/ Landings in CloD are kind of "simplyfied". Better you don´t take it as a reference
SharpeXB Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 I don´t know how it was in the beginning so i don´t know the difference now. Compared to Cliffs you lose very little speed when slipping which caused me some problems during landings in BoS (besides the bouncing when going down to fast). CoD isn't a good comparison for FM or ground handling especially. As for bouncing watch the FW test pilot in that other thread bounce his landing. Looks just like BoS
-TBC-AeroAce Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 I slip to cause drag when landing and it defo causes a big speed drop. When slow and max rudder there is a huge amount of ailerons needed to counter the induced rolL in 109 at least. Iv alway wondered if this is correct at the very limit but generally think it is but it sometimes feels a bit funny
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