Make IL-2 BoS playable with gamepads!

[MACADEMIC]

I used to fly Wings of Prey with a PS3 Dual Shock controller and it worked perfectly (used a third party driver for Windows - motioninjoy ).Probably due to their PS3/XBox heritage with Birds of Prey Gaijin had nailed that aspect. Analog stick pitch and roll, analog rudders (triggers left/right) and free view camera (right side stick) all worked super smoothly and I didn't feel disadvantaged against people with HOTAS and TrackIR.

 

There's a discussion going on how newcomers can be brought to flight simulations. Making the entry easier by allowing them to use some of the equipment they have will certainly help. 

 

Thanks for consideration!

 

MAC

[Uufflakke]

Something like this?

 

http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/

 

"The Steam Controller is designed to work with all the games on Steam: past, present, and future. Even the older titles in the catalog and the ones which were not built with controller support. (We’ve fooled those older games into thinking they’re being played with a keyboard and mouse, but we’ve designed a gamepad that’s nothing like either one of those devices.) We think you’ll agree that we’re onto something with the Steam Controller, and now we want your help with the design process."

 

 

Edited September 30, 2013 by Uufflakke

[MACADEMIC]

When I got DCS I found out that my gamepad doesn't work with it (not Steam, I don't have it). It kind of worked, but looking around was unusable. My request for help on the forum was met with,...let's say, slight irritation. I don't think it should have to be this way. I bought a copy of DCS for a friend and he never got into the game for that very reason.

 

Hopefully it will work in IL2 BoS - don't really see any good reason why it shouldn't.

 

MAC

[Dakpilot]

Have you tried it with ROF? is free download with 2 aircraft, should give you a reasonable idea about BOS, let us know how you get on 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited September 30, 2013 by Dakpilot

[SOLIDKREATE]

I think this opens the door to 'mouse aimers'.

[FuriousMeow]

Not really. While I do not care for this style of control, as long as it doesn't require dumbing down or anything of the simulator side then I don't care what anyone uses to control their aircraft.

 

Mouse aim, however, is completely different category and a) requires dumbing down, and b) requires an AI to fly the plane to the point that the mouse was previously pointing to.

[Alesia]

Not really. While I do not care for this style of control, as long as it doesn't require dumbing down or anything of the simulator side then I don't care what anyone uses to control their aircraft.

 

Mouse aim, however, is completely different category and a) requires dumbing down, and b) requires an AI to fly the plane to the point that the mouse was previously pointing to.

Mouse Joy control schemes do not require any dumbing down, however they tend to be hard to master. That said I do not see why any number of control methods could be supported as long as everyone is playing by the same rules (flight models etc).

[FuriousMeow]

You need to look up what mouse aim from WarThunder is. It's not the same as mouse joy. Yes it does require dumbing down.

[Alesia]

You need to look up what mouse aim from WarThunder is. It's not the same as mouse joy. Yes it does require dumbing down.

If you were addressing me I play warthunder and i know exactly what mouse aim is. The way things were said implied that any mouse support for flying reqired dumbing down the game which is untrue.

[Sokol1]

I used to fly Wings of Prey with a PS3 Dual Shock controller and it worked perfectly (used a third party driver for Windows - motioninjoy ).

 

 

OK, but if BOS have the flight model that is supposed you think that are competitive with a PS3 controller?

 

 

Analog stick pitch and roll, analog rudders (triggers left/right) and free view camera (right side stick).

 

To control the game (BoS) with this above they don't need change nothing in game, since analog axis are already assigned to control aileron, elevator, rudder, throttle...

 

For example you can use your gamepad  to fly in Il-2 Sturmovik 1946, just assign in Controls.

 

Unless for "playable" you mean "make a simplified flight model (less sensitive?) for gamepad users that make then competitive as someone that use "HOTAS+TrackIR"...

 

Sokol1

[FuriousMeow]

If you were addressing me I play warthunder and i know exactly what mouse aim is. The way things were said implied that any mouse support for flying reqired dumbing down the game which is untrue.

 

Support for mouseaim does require dumbing down. There are examples in this post of MouseAim (which requires an AI to fly the plane) and MouseJoy (which is direct control of the plane using the mouse as a joystick):

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1352-fly-wire-mousekb-controls-warthunder/?p=29608

Edited October 1, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[Sokol1]

Unless for "playable" you mean "make a simplified flight model (less sensitive?) for gamepad users that make then competitive as someone that use "HOTAS+TrackIR"...

 

BTW - A  gamepad cost same as "entry level" joystick , and a good "game mouse" cost more than a "entry-level" joystick.

 

Sokol1

[=LD=Hethwill]

Exactly Sokol.

Edited October 1, 2013 by =LD=Hethwill

[MACADEMIC]

OK, but if BOS have the flight model that is supposed you think that are competitive with a PS3 controller?

 

 

 

To control the game (BoS) with this above they don't need change nothing in game, since analog axis are already assigned to control aileron, elevator, rudder, throttle...

 

For example you can use your gamepad  to fly in Il-2 Sturmovik 1946, just assign in Controls.

 

Unless for "playable" you mean "make a simplified flight model (less sensitive?) for gamepad users that make then competitive as someone that use "HOTAS+TrackIR"...

 

Sokol1

 

Yes I believe it's possible to be competitive with a gamepad, but it depends on the gamepad quality and on the setup options a game offers. The reason I brought this up is that my experience with DCS tells me that some developers don't pay attention to making the game accessible for this kind of hardware, in my opinion to their own detriment. I won't argue that it's most probably better and more immersive to have a full HOTAS and TrackIR setup. But don't forget the importance of getting people started. Not everyone is fully equipped from the start, but many have a game console at home with a gamepad and they should be able to get into the game with what they have.

 

By the way, I'm absolutely not talking about dumbing down or simplifiying the flight model. But it's a good idea to have control setups that work with the equipment, such as deadzone or sensitivity settings. Gaijin has this nailed, hope 1CGS will follow suit.

 

MAC

[Fudge]

I had previously set up Xbox 360 profile for ROF to get my friends into it. If there was a standard profile in the stock game it would have made convincing them to try it a lot smoother.

 

BTW - A  gamepad cost same as "entry level" joystick , and a good "game mouse" cost more than a "entry-level" joystick.

 

Sokol1

 

Many gamers own game pad from various places, normally their consoles. If they can jump right into the game with controls they already have and feel comfortable with its always a plus.

 

I can't fully remember my profile, but it was something like; 

 

left stick pitch and roll

Right stick view (with snap to center)

D-Pad was move pilot position (up down left and right)

Triggers for Rudder

R1 for fire

L1 for bomb

Circle to reload

Square / Triangle for throttle

Select for engine start

 

Although it doesn't have all the mixture / radiator controls it would be possible to have a shift button to multiply the number of usable buttons.

[MACADEMIC]

And incidentally, WoP was a pile of shit with a flight stick because it was an arcade game. 

 

Maybe you should just stick to War Thunder. 

 

Oho! I disagree with you about Wings of Prey. For its many shortcomings it provided an excellent feel of flight and very good graphics for the most part. I regret that Gaijin didn't go deeper into simulation but went the other way with War Thunder, which I used to test, but am not playing right now.

 

And for your recommendation - why so aloof?

 

MAC

[Stlkrash]

Game pads? Those belong to consoles. Not PC SIMS. Get a joystick...

[MACADEMIC]

Well, perhaps I already have. But I don't see any reason why gamepads shouldn't be made to work very well with IL2 BoS. This is my recommendation to the devs to broaden their userbase. Let people find out themselves which equipment works best for them and upgrade their equipment accordingly.

 

MAC

[Sethos]

Oho! I disagree with you about Wings of Prey. For its many shortcomings it provided an excellent feel of flight and very good graphics for the most part. I regret that Gaijin didn't go deeper into simulation but went the other way with War Thunder, which I used to test, but am not playing right now.

 

And for your recommendation - why so aloof?

 

MAC

 

For my recommendation? That makes no sense. 

 

And Wings of Prey was a boring, stiff arcade game that had no feel, no excitement, no twitchyness to the handling. It was an arcade game built around rubbish control methods that made it unbearable with a flight stick. The planes were way too stable and predictable. You simply can't have a flight simulator that simulates the turbulence properly, simulates how twitchy old warplanes can be while catering for a simple controller, it's impossible. That requires watering down the physics to a point where they are boringly stable.

 

So can we stop entertaining that notion. War Thunder is the game you want, if you'd like that rubbish arcade handling that works with a controller - Let's not ruin other games.  

[MACADEMIC]

For my recommendation? That makes no sense. 

 

And Wings of Prey was a boring, stiff arcade game that had no feel, no excitement, no twitchyness to the handling. It was an arcade game built around rubbish control methods that made it unbearable with a flight stick. The planes were way too stable and predictable. You simply can't have a flight simulator that simulates the turbulence properly, simulates how twitchy old warplanes can be while catering for a simple controller, it's impossible. That requires watering down the physics to a point where they are boringly stable.

 

So can we stop entertaining that notion. War Thunder is the game you want, if you'd like that rubbish arcade handling that works with a controller - Let's not ruin other games.  

 

 

No need telling me what I should stick to or what I want. And frankly, you come across as overbearing and insulting. I don't know you and you don't know me. So better keep it civil and friendly, won't you?

 

MAC

[Dakpilot]

A Lot of people have access to a gamepad/PS3 controller or otherwise, if being able to use this as a starter to "cut your teeth" on a proper flight sim can introduce new players to this genre, or help move people on from less "realistic" games such as WT or WOP, where is the possible downside? no-one mentioned mouse aim or anything like that in the initial proposal.

 

To be able to experience the Sim/game with a controller rather than  the keyboard is a VERY positive idea, people would then, when they realize the scope, buy a cheap proper joystick, and then start the road to financial ruin    and the never ending quest for better hardware to more enjoy the hobby

.

To get more people interested surely is the whole point?

 

there is no downside of easier access, and no suggestion of dumming anything down, or giving any advantage to gamepad users, just make it easier to set up a profile and get started

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited October 3, 2013 by Dakpilot

[MACADEMIC]

Thanks Dakpilot, 

 

you have PERFECTLY understood what this thread is all about!

 

 

MAC

[Sokol1]

The problem here is:

 

"Make IL-2 BoS playable with gamepads."

 

Actual so-called flight simulators, il-2, RoF, FSX... can be controlled with PS2 style gamepads since in these directional are just a mini-joystick (2 analog axis each).

 

http://www.robot-italy.com/media/catalog/product/cache/4/image/d43192dcd82ea942982b4b1d2a6e2479/0/9/09032-03-l.jpeg

Used in this low cost joystick too.

 

So unless BoS come with a radical different control system (unlikely since use RoF engine) no request is need.

 

A request to "make playable" suggest some kind of dumbing down... (you know WT, etc. etc....).

 

This illustrated STEAM controller seems use a form of touchpad for directional - probable more difficult to use in flight simulator.

 

Sokol1

[MACADEMIC]

Actual so-called flight simulators, il-2, RoF, FSX... can be controlled with PS2 style gamepads since in these directional are just a mini-joystick (2 analog axis each).

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately according my experience with DCS this is not the case by default. The right stick is an analog controller but can't direct the camera smoothly. To make a gamepad work well with a game, the developer has to provide proper setup options for it, such as for deadzone and sensitivity. Instead of leaving this to chance, they should actively ensure that their game is working with a gamepad.

 

Equipment being probably the #1 entry barrier into flight simulations, doing so will lower this barrier for many while not taking away ANYTHING from those who are already properly equipped.

 

MAC

[SYN_Mike77]

So Mac< have you tried RoF with a game pad yet to get the answer to  your question?

[MACADEMIC]

So Mac< have you tried RoF with a game pad yet to get the answer to  your question?

 

Can't at the moment, it has to wait for a PC upgrade.

 

MAC

[Rjel]

I use my mouse when I man a gunner position in IL-2. I'd like the option to use a game pad in the same way in BoS. It would (hopefully) give me more setup options.

[Creepermoss]

So Mac< have you tried RoF with a game pad yet to get the answer to  your question?

This. The amount of adjustability that RoF provides is pretty well done. If they reuse the same setup (and I can't imagine why they wouldn't, it's IMO the best one I've seen) you should have more than enough tuning options to setup a gamepad.

[NumeroX]

I fly ROF with an X-Box 360 controller... Left Joystick to control the aircraft, Right Joystick to control the view (works better than my Track IR 5), Left/Right Bumpers for Rudder; functions I have mapped are blip switch, rearm/reload, fire machine guns, drop bombs and throttle... all other are mapped to my keyboard.

[MACADEMIC]

Thanks for your feedback! I used to have the same basic layout in Wings of Prey, looking around with right stick worked really well! So there's a good chance it will work as well in IL2 BoS.

 

MAC

[Kvyb]

I have played RoF and Warthunder Full Real Battle on a gamepad, scoring a 1:0.8 K/D ratio: competing, and even out-competing Joystick players with TrackIR. I find it to be much More than the combination of Joystick+TrackIR, and i have tried and have a proper joystick. It will be very sad if IL2:BoS does not have gamepad control. If the majority doesn't care about it, it does not mean that people like me should be excluded. I would also like people to attempt to show consideration to fellow pilots and not be as arrogant as some are in this thread. 

[AndyJWest]

As far as Windows is concerned, a gamepad is just a 'Game Controller', and as far as RoF is concerned, any Windows Game Controller is just like any other, differing only in number of analog axes and buttons. To make BoS 'not support gamepads' would involve explicitly detecting them, and even if possible, would be pointless. So yes, you can be sure that BoS will 'support' gamepads - though you will find that with fiddly little sticks, you can't get the precision you would from a proper joystick.

 

When I first flew IL-2 Forgotten Battles, I used a gamepad. I wouldn't recommend it though.

[76SQN-FatherTed]

 

When I first flew IL-2 Forgotten Battles, I used a gamepad. I wouldn't recommend it though.

 

Doesn't this show a problem with trying to expand the user-base by suggesting that the game will work with a game-pad?

[AndyJWest]

Doesn't this show a problem with trying to expand the user-base by suggesting that the game will work with a game-pad?

 

Yes. Which is why I'm not making the suggestion. All I'm doing is pointing out that it is already possible, and explaining why I don't think it is a good idea to do it.

[Sokol1]

 

http://www.ottoexcellence.com/UserFiles/file/G3%20Dual%20Grip%20Remote.pdf

 

 

 

Sokol1

[FruitSalad]

great news time to purchase then   before its too late

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

Not sure if that will work with fighters, but there will be little joy if you try using that kind of controller with bombers!

As there you normally need the keyboard additionally to the joystick, only track IR you do not need as a bomber pilot.

[334th_L0C0]

There are a bunch of people that fly IL2 with a gamepad, and they're good at it. The OP has a good point. There are people out there that look at game pads as the only way to control/play a "game". So why not cater to both groups. It certainly can't be that hard to do, can it?

 

Btw.. I have no idea how one would have fun using a game pad over a flight stick, but some do.

[Sokol1]

 

Btw.. I have no idea how one would have fun using a game pad over a flight stick, but some do.

 

It's because to him, they are just playing a "game". 

They are not "Walt" fighting for the Motherland, or for a Iron Cross.

 

Sokol1

[BigPickle]

Update*

 

BOS does not detect 360 controller at all