Who here likes to dogfight in the 109 F4?

[II./JG27_Rich]

Twelve years of doing IL-2 and I still can't see or shoot but I can fly in your "C+"  full real catigory I would say. I find that if you practice you can dogfight with just about any Western fighter in a 109F4 F2 or G2. The only one I would stay away from would be a Spitfire Mk.V but any P-40 yes Hurricanes yes. With wide climbing diving turns sooner or later you may find him in your rings but the problem I have is his friends will probably be there before I can kill him LOL Russian fighters seem to be trickier. Booming and zooming is totally out for me because I would never hit anything unless it was a B-17. I think this is why my wins are so low but I still have a lot of fun! Does anyone else do this kind of fighting in F2' F4s or G2s? I'm really curious.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2013 by II./JG27Richie

[6S.Manu]

Only if I'm forced too. 

 

I've learn that tactics and energy advantage is far more important that 1v1 dogfighting skill. If you are forced in a close dogfight then you have made a mistake. ;-)

 

When to fire your weapons, when to jump on your victim is all about instinct and experience. IMO.

Edited September 29, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[ImPeRaToR]

One of the best dogfighters in il2

[II./JG27_Rich]

One of the best dogfighters in il2

I made a Spitfire IX stall and crash into the sea. He was so upset about it that when he saw his friend shoot me down he killed me in my chute.

[DD_bongodriver]

I made a Spitfire IX stall and crash into the sea. He was so upset about it that when he saw his friend shoot me down he killed me in my chute.

 

How did he do that if he already crashed?

[ImPeRaToR]

Btw, I need to add "best dogfighter for its time", of course you get lots of planes in il2 46 that are better dogfighters in 44-45. But for 41-43 it is a superb plane, and I am expecting nothing less in BOS but we will have to wait a few more weeks to see what surprises andrey has come up with

[II./JG27_Rich]

How did he do that if he already crashed?

After he respawned. He was right around close in the area and saw it all happen.

il2fb 2010-10-12 09-20-04-50.bmp

Edited September 29, 2013 by II./JG27Richie

[DD_bongodriver]

After he respawned. He was right around close in the area and saw it all happen.

 

Ah.....that's not very sporting.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

The F4 is my baby, my all time fav aircraft in IL2, i will take on anything 1 on 1 in my F4, its only weak spot is taking down heavy bombers.

[II./JG27_Rich]

Ah.....that's not very sporting.

Found him in my files. Always have your recorder going. 

Edited September 29, 2013 by II./JG27Richie

[II./JG27_Rich]

The F4 is my baby, my all time fav aircraft in IL2, i will take on anything 1 on 1 in my F4, its only weak spot is taking down heavy bombers.

Agree Furbs. If you get a little creative with the flaps you can get that little extra that you may need for one second too.

Edited September 29, 2013 by II./JG27Richie

[JaMz]

Found him in my files. Always have your recorder going. 

lol...that sux

[II./JG27_Rich]

lol...that sux

Just to let people know who don't fly IL-2 or in Spits VS 109s I can only remember this happening to me twice over the time of seven years.

Edited September 29, 2013 by II./JG27Richie

[Finkeren]

The Bf 109F-4 was propably the most pleasant plane to fly in the old IL2. The G-2 was somewhat deadlier, but didn't have the same "feel".

 

Honestly, I try to stay away from it. It's just a little too forgiving. I like to feel like I'm fighting for my life, in the F-4 I seldom feel that way.

[II./JG27_Rich]

The Bf 109F-4 was propably the most pleasant plane to fly in the old IL2. The G-2 was somewhat deadlier, but didn't have the same "feel".

 

Honestly, I try to stay away from it. It's just a little too forgiving. I like to feel like I'm fighting for my life, in the F-4 I seldom feel that way.

I'm always fighting for my life lol

[6S.Manu]

The Bf 109F-4 was propably the most pleasant plane to fly in the old IL2. The G-2 was somewhat deadlier, but didn't have the same "feel".

 

Honestly, I try to stay away from it. It's just a little too forgiving. I like to feel like I'm fighting for my life, in the F-4 I seldom feel that way.

 

I totally agree! IL2 1946's F4 and G2 are too easy to fly! There are guys that can't fly anything but them: in most of the other rides they stall at every turn.

Edited September 29, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Well even Günther Rall mentioned when saw him some years ago that the Bf109F-4 was the best of them all, a real dogfighter. Marseille was a menace to RAF in his over Africa etc. Bf109G-2 was a beefier F-4 after teething problems were tackled and pilots got used to it. So no wonder people flew them in IL-2. My main rides were still Bf109G-6 and G-6 Late. Nothing more satisfying than win a fight in those rides

[II./JG27_Rich]

I totally agree! IL2 1946's F4 and G2 are too easy to fly! There are guys that can't fly anything but them: in most of the other rides they stall at every turn.

Yes it is much harder being such a crappy shot and having to get in close. My favorite late model 109 is a G10 Erla witch I actually like quite a bit if there are P-51s P-47s and Lightnings around. But Spifires are always a problem. You can't dogfight a Spitfire in a late model 109 unless it's one of those Griffin jobs

Edited September 29, 2013 by II./JG27Richie

[OBT-Psycho]

I would rather be in a F4 if forced to close dogfight than in a G2, especially against one of those sipitfire. I always felt the Friedrich was the climax of the Messerschmitt fighter. Later on planes got heavier and way more sluggish, due to überpowered DB605 and killer cannons. 

[SCG_Neun]

I'm an F4 fan as well, and looking forward to see how well it flies in BOS.

[II./JG27_Rich]

I would rather be in a F4 if forced to close dogfight than in a G2, especially against one of those sipitfire. I always felt the Friedrich was the climax of the Messerschmitt fighter. Later on planes got heavier and way more sluggish, due to überpowered DB605 and killer cannons. 

I can see well out of an F4 also. Fortunately we will be able to take the amour plate out in the F4 in BOS as an option.

Edited September 29, 2013 by II./JG27Richie

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Agreed the G2 was a better killer if you were flying strictly BnZ and being disciplined, but if you wanted to mix it up a bit with those Spit V's  then the F4 was great, nothing surprises a Spit pilot more when you out scissor him at slow speed.

[dkoor]

Twelve years of doing IL-2 and I still can't see or shoot but I can fly in your "C+"  full real catigory I would say. I find that if you practice you can dogfight with just about any Western fighter in a 109F4 F2 or G2. The only one I would stay away from would be a Spitfire Mk.V but any P-40 yes Hurricanes yes. With wide climbing diving turns sooner or later you may find him in your rings but the problem I have is his friends will probably be there before I can kill him LOL Russian fighters seem to be trickier. Booming and zooming is totally out for me because I would never hit anything unless it was a B-17. I think this is why my wins are so low but I still have a lot of fun! Does anyone else do this kind of fighting in F2' F4s or G2s? I'm really curious.

Hm.

I guess you'd be doing great job if you spot E/A early and prepare your ensuing fight.

 

About Spitfire... well, yes it is the ultimate F4 enemy IMO, however I think we should note that 1941 version is not as fast as F4 is, but is slightly more maneuverable in horizontal (sustained).

But I've seen numerous times them being wiped in equal duel vs F4s as in such duels there is no room for an error.

 

However I wouldn't quite rely on aircrafts' ability to do dogfights well in real war but that's just me .

I'd much rather have one of the fastest aircraft I can get my paws on (which in this case coincidentally IS F4) because of enormous (for me) tactical advantage.

 

Another words, unless being jumped from above I can disengage at my will and that is not something one can do in slow aircraft.

When in slow a/c one has to have some ace up his sleeve otherwise, well...

 

Agreed the G2 was a better killer if you were flying strictly BnZ and being disciplined, but if you wanted to mix it up a bit with those Spit V's  then the F4 was great, nothing surprises a Spit pilot more when you out scissor him at slow speed.

Aye, looking thru this glass early BoS looks like a Messer feeding grounds.

We will see.

[ImPeRaToR]

I expect to see lots of La5s on public servers just to people can match the speed and climb of the 109s - and I am not expecting the La5 to be an extremely good turner.

 

Damn it I want early access now

[6./ZG26_Emil]

The minute you start dog fighting you've given up any chance to be able to extract yourself from the fight. Regardless of whether the a/c is an energy fighter or not I always want to be above the enemy and have more energy than him.

[dkoor]

The minute you start dog fighting you've given up any chance to be able to extract yourself from the fight. Regardless of whether the a/c is an energy fighter or not I always want to be above the enemy and have more energy than him.

I concur, that's the general idea if you wanna live  .

 

It makes little difference there whether you wanna fly Yak or Me-109 or something else.

[76SQN-FatherTed]

Btw, I need to add "best dogfighter for its time", of course you get lots of planes in il2 46 that are better dogfighters in 44-45. But for 41-43 it is a superb plane, and I am expecting nothing less in BOS but we will have to wait a few more weeks to see what surprises andrey has come up with

 

I find that the later war fighters (on both sides) are less good at dogfighting - there was more emphasis on speed and armament.  Like the OP, I know I'm no good at the more superior skill of BnZ, so I'm happier in those earlier crates - and indeed the F4 is my favourite German ride (in IL2 46)

[dkoor]

I find that the later war fighters (on both sides) are less good at dogfighting - there was more emphasis on speed and armament.  Like the OP, I know I'm no good at the more superior skill of BnZ, so I'm happier in those earlier crates - and indeed the F4 is my favourite German ride (in IL2 46)

You guys, just like me probably need better resolution or bigger screen.

In IL-2 I hated the LoD the most.

 

Situation where I would lose a plane that was below me, it just "blended" in the forest below were just too common in IL-2 to the point of frustration whereas in normal life situations one would probably just nicely distinguish what was the E/A type.

 

Therefore chances of flying (really) high and expecting to successfully bnz something 2000-3000m below you were (are) rather slim.

 

Hope this game improves this aspect of gaming.

 

And also I need better monitor.

 

So there.

[76SQN-FatherTed]

You guys, just like me probably need better resolution or bigger screen.

In IL-2 I hated the LoD the most.

 

Situation where I would lose a plane that was below me, it just "blended" in the forest below were just too common in IL-2 to the point of frustration whereas in normal life situations one would probably just nicely distinguish what was the E/A type.

 

Therefore chances of flying (really) high and expecting to successfully bnz something 2000-3000m below you were (are) rather slim.

 

Hope this game improves this aspect of gaming.

 

And also I need better monitor.

 

So there.

You're absolutely right with that.  My problems also lie in the spatial awareness department.  If I'm lucky enough to spot someone below me, then I usually struggle to work out when and  at what angle to dive  in order to engage the target successfully (ie hit it) whilst maintaining energy so that I can zoom.  This is especially so in RoF - those kites seem to bleed energy hugely with every control input as I adjust to get the target lined up.  All this means that I tend to get sucked into a turning fight, so, if I'm flying "blue", the F4 is a preference over a 190, or later, heavier 109s.

[6S.Manu]

You guys, just like me probably need better resolution or bigger screen.

In IL-2 I hated the LoD the most.

 

Situation where I would lose a plane that was below me, it just "blended" in the forest below were just too common in IL-2 to the point of frustration whereas in normal life situations one would probably just nicely distinguish what was the E/A type.

 

Therefore chances of flying (really) high and expecting to successfully bnz something 2000-3000m below you were (are) rather slim.

 

Hope this game improves this aspect of gaming.

 

And also I need better monitor.

 

So there.

 

[ImPeRaToR]

I find that the later war fighters (on both sides) are less good at dogfighting - there was more emphasis on speed and armament.  Like the OP, I know I'm no good at the more superior skill of BnZ, so I'm happier in those earlier crates - and indeed the F4 is my favourite German ride (in IL2 46)

What about La5FN, La7 and SpitIX 25lb? The Yak3 too was a good dogfighter in 1946 but do a lesser degree than those I mentioned.

[Finkeren]

i find the weapons of F and G2 very weak in il2 myself i lovED to get gunpods in k4 and see my enemy explode

Against bombers perhaps, but against fighters the MG 13/MG 151 combination is more than adequate. Unlike Rudorffer, I actually have shot down 13 enemy aircraft in one mission (16 even)

[Karost]

Hello Old-Hand Friends,

 

For 109F4 is good for "dance with bullet"   and screaming like a lady  when you see 3-4 yak in your 6! ....

[=69.GIAP=RADKO]

i find the weapons of F and G2 very weak in il2 myself i lovED to get gunpods in k4 and see my enemy explode

 

You don't fly Russian fighters do you 

Edited September 30, 2013 by =69.GIAP=RADKO

[=LD=Scronce]

I don't dogfight because I never get dirty >. They don't see me coming until my nose is bumping their rudder and pounding 20mms into it.

[II./JG27_Rich]

Against bombers perhaps, but against fighters the MG 13/MG 151 combination is more than adequate. Unlike Rudorffer, I actually have shot down 13 enemy aircraft in one mission (16 even)

I've only got 5 in one mission and it was in a G6 so go figure.

[Finkeren]

I've only got 5 in one mission and it was in a G6 so go figure.

5 seems like a fairly small number in the old IL2. The 16 I shot down were almost all I-16s, which seem all too willing to lose their tail after a single cannon hit. After I finished the mission, I expected to have perhaps 10 victories and were quite suprised to see the the tally of 16. Most of the planes I never saw crash (propably wouldn't have claimed them if it was real life) but apparently they were damaged enough to crash at a later time.

 

This was all the way back, when Forgotten Battles was new, and as a German pilot in 1941 you constantly ran into groups of 9 I-16s on a bombing mission, mostly escorted by another flight of I-16, so if it was just you and a wingman, things were set up for a grandiose slaughter, if you could stay alive. Today the AI of IL2 is so much better, and the scoring system changed to allow shared kills etc. so I most likely couldn't repeat the feat today.  

[II./JG27_Rich]

5 seems like a fairly small number in the old IL2. The 16 I shot down were almost all I-16s, which seem all too willing to lose their tail after a single cannon hit. After I finished the mission, I expected to have perhaps 10 victories and were quite suprised to see the the tally of 16. Most of the planes I never saw crash (propably wouldn't have claimed them if it was real life) but apparently they were damaged enough to crash at a later time.

 

This was all the way back, when Forgotten Battles was new, and as a German pilot in 1941 you constantly ran into groups of 9 I-16s on a bombing mission, mostly escorted by another flight of I-16, so if it was just you and a wingman, things were set up for a grandiose slaughter, if you could stay alive. Today the AI of IL2 is so much better, and the scoring system changed to allow shared kills etc. so I most likely couldn't repeat the feat today.  

Yes that's why I put "only got 5"  It's not high at all.

Edited September 30, 2013 by II./JG27Richie

[dkoor]

Against bombers perhaps, but against fighters the MG 13/MG 151 combination is more than adequate. Unlike Rudorffer, I actually have shot down 13 enemy aircraft in one mission (16 even)

 My personal best was 25 ace B-17s while flying Me-262 on realistic settings.

They have hit me like two - three times IIRC

Track:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/4jc4craix5lrr72/kuna262-25b17g-405.zip

 

Never really tried to shot down more perhaps due to my fixation with 1 vs 4 ace AI QMBs, I've done like every possible hard setup there (109 vs Spits, F6F vs Zeros etc).

Anyhow that sort of number would hardly go up by flying any kind of conventional fighter in IL-2, it has to be some wondercrate like that flying Heinkel dildo.

[II./JG27_Rich]

 My personal best was 25 ace B-17s while flying Me-262 on realistic settings.

They have hit me like two - three times IIRC

Track:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/4jc4craix5lrr72/kuna262-25b17g-405.zip

 

Never really tried to shot down more perhaps due to my fixation with 1 vs 4 ace AI QMBs, I've done like every possible hard setup there (109 vs Spits, F6F vs Zeros etc).

Anyhow that sort of number would hardly go up by flying any kind of conventional fighter in IL-2, it has to be some wondercrate like that flying Heinkel dildo.

That's where I go Spits VS 109s HSFX. I wish the ultra pack was still used. The external sound for movies was so much better. Now the 109s sound like egg mixers.

Edited October 1, 2013 by II./JG27Richie