Musicality, lets not make a song and dance about it

[HagarTheHorrible]

I've generally been a bit disappointed with the music included in flight sims, the original IL2 is a case in point, it rarely seem to inspire or set the mood.  Third parties often seem to do a far better job.

 

What menu music, or incidental music, if that is included, would you hope to be used in the game ?

 

My personnel favourite, for setting place and mood (didn't you just know that was coming), certainly at least for the Axis side, is "Lili Marlene".  Not only is it a thunderingly good song but it certainly evokes, for me at least, that 1940's gritty black and white period. I can't imagine it is still under copyright and thus can't be used ?

 

If a Russian song or music was also used what would it be, what stirring 1940's music could they include that transcends national borders and pumps the blood to a fever pitch of martial ardour ?

Edited September 29, 2013 by HagarTheHorrible

[Stig]

Agree with you on Lili Marlene, i certainly hope that can/ will be used. May be with the undesirable consequence that on hearing the song, I abort mission RTB to my girlfriend (i.e. if my wife will allow me to have a girlfriend).

 

I'm stumped on the Russian side of it though, ashamed to admit I don't know what possibilities there are.

[HagarTheHorrible]

Just had a thought.

 

Along the lines of incidental music, how about the developers including the possibility of some optional, background, inflight "Lounge music" possibly with a folder in which to dump your favourite WAV files ? I know it's not a new or novel idea but it might be nice to have the option from the start.

[Revvin]

The first thing I do is turn music off in any game

[Yellowsub]

I would prefer authentic music from the time era. They should simply use mp3 files and let users create playlist. The good music mods will come. They should definitely stay away from the guy who made the music for IL2 CoD. Horrible.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Yellowsub

[HagarTheHorrible]

The first thing I do is turn music off in any game

What if it was good, stirring, period music in the menu, that set up the tone for the game ?

 

In flight music isn't to everyone's taste and certainly the option not to have it would be a must but it would also be nice to have the option to listen to background tracks from the period, or whatever floats your boat, on some sort of a loop with an easy option to compile playlists by dropping tracks into a folder or playlists made up by others, would it not ?

 

A thousand movies can't be wrong, about setting the tone with music ?

[Feathered_IV]

I think the main thing is to make the music files accessible to the user. Not locked away like in RoF. That way the individual can use whatever music they prefer.

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

Just had a thought.

 

Along the lines of incidental music, how about the developers including the possibility of some optional, background, inflight "Lounge music" possibly with a folder in which to dump your favourite WAV files ? I know it's not a new or novel idea but it might be nice to have the option from the start.

Hmm you do know that Lili Marlene was not liked with the propaganda ministry, as they felt it seduced fighting moral, and had the men thinking too much of home?

A typical Luftwaffen march would be:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAAhs_2ORAA

for the Russian side I would choose this one writen in 1941

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_U-qRyKsVw

 

otherwise yes either no music, or at least no unfitting Holywood music.

Like what a lot of people use from that terrible Pearl Harbour movie.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Lord_Haw-Haw

[Fifi]

The first thing I do is turn music off in any game

 

Correct! Please devs, don't loose time with this.

Anyway, the only good music for a flight sim, is the engine sound!...and developpers will never find a music to satisfy me anyway...except if i could have an option to put my own.

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

 

What if it was good, stirring, period music in the menu, that set up the tone for the game ?

In flight music isn't to everyone's taste and certainly the option not to have it would be a must but it would also be nice to have the option to listen to background tracks from the period, or whatever floats your boat, on some sort of a loop with an easy option to compile playlists by dropping tracks into a folder or playlists made up by others, would it not ?

A thousand movies can't be wrong, about setting the tone with music ?

Oh yes thousands of movies can have absolutely terrible music! Sorry either fitting for the period or no music at all.

But the music bit I too would see as a very low priority.

[Revvin]

What if it was good, stirring, period music in the menu, that set up the tone for the game ?

In flight music isn't to everyone's taste and certainly the option not to have it would be a must but it would also be nice to have the option to listen to background tracks from the period, or whatever floats your boat, on some sort of a loop with an easy option to compile playlists by dropping tracks into a folder or playlists made up by others, would it not ?

A thousand movies can't be wrong, about setting the tone with music ?

It's just another feature that takes time away from more important things like checking and improving FM's, ballistics etc.

[HagarTheHorrible]

Oh yes thousands of movies can have absolutely terrible music! Sorry either fitting for the period or no music at all.

But the music bit I too would see as a very low priority.

Content possibly, inclusion no. Without Ride of the Valkyries helicopter attacks just wouldn't be the same, would they ? Not all music is appropriate to everyone, so it's nice to have some choice and flexibility built in so everyone can turn it on or off or have their own back beat to fly too.

 

It's just another feature that takes time away from more important things like checking and improving FM's, ballistics etc.

I'm glad you have your finger on the pulse as to the exact content priorities they should have, maybe you could apply for a job (don't take it seriously, I'm just ribbing you). Content creation/inclusion, prioritisation is always a tricky beast, CLOD anyone, but I can't think of any game that hasn't had some music in. It also assumes that the sound engineer/s are as busy as the busiest person in the office and that they can simply be redeployed to another aspect if they finish early.

 

If they are going to include music, certainly in the menu, then let's try and save them some chin wagging time and help them make the best choice possible ?

Edited September 29, 2013 by HagarTheHorrible

[HagarTheHorrible]

Hmm you do know that Lili Marlene was not liked with the propaganda ministry, as they felt it seduced fighting moral, and had the men thinking too much of home?

A typical Luftwaffen march would be:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAAhs_2ORAA

for the Russian side I would choose this one writen in 1941

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_U-qRyKsVw

 

otherwise yes either no music, or at least no unfitting Holywood music.

Like what a lot of people use from that terrible Pearl Harbour movie.

I like the Russian one, but for some reason the Luftwaffen march just doesn't do anything for me.

[DD_bongodriver]

I like the 'sacred war' for the Russians.

 

Must be my Russian ancestry but I really like the old Soviet songs.....

 

My choices:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuWE8GJnN5w

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-TVk-RG8cw

Edited September 29, 2013 by DD_bongodriver

[Revvin]

It also assumes that the sound engineer/s are as busy as the busiest person in the office and that they can simply be redeployed to another aspect if they finish early.

Assuming they have someone employed solely as a sound engineer who doesn't do anything else, they might do I don't pretend to know but it might be a case of someone multi skilled who also works on coding as I'd guess 1C/777 are not playing with a AAA budget to be able to put someone to work on the music score when they have other less important things to do like getting the many gun sounds sampled into the game, engine noises, mechanical noises such as gear, flaps, radiators per plane, per side, ambient noise such as fires, explosions from different ordnance, radio messages, radio crackle, airfield tower chatter etc

[DD_bongodriver]

There have been extensive discussions on how flight sims need to break away from the cold pure flght sim experience and start making them more 'fun', music features a lot in these fun games......just a thought.

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

I like the Russian one, but for some reason the Luftwaffen march just doesn't do anything for me.

Well that is it, people view stuff that is over 70 years old and expect something with the drive that would be uplifting also

today. but like everything music goes by fashion, what might be in one decade a real hit, might be absolutely unhearable 20 to 30

years later. What I posted was music of the time, and used by the airforces. That it does not necessaryly hit todays tastes and expectations

of a driving music fitting to lots of action should be also clear. I for my part being into reenactment, would turn off anything that is not

appropriet for the period.

Also what might be forgotten the music was never made for a world wide audiance but more for people who understood and connected

more easily with the music. Finding a music that connects to all around the world, and fitting for the period? I would say forget it, you never

will get all under one hat.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Lord_Haw-Haw

[Revvin]

There have been extensive discussions on how flight sims need to break away from the cold pure flght sim experience and start making them more 'fun', music features a lot in these fun games......just a thought.

It's just personal preference I'm putting across here, I'm not saying anyway is wrong or right but it wasn't music that drew me into a Falcon 4 or Rise of Flight campaign for example. Music taste is such a personal thing the chances of getting it 'right' seem pretty slim so why not focus on getting the sounds spot on for the sounds I mentioned in my previous post?

[DD_bongodriver]

It's just personal preference I'm putting across here, I'm not saying anyway is wrong or right but it wasn't music that drew me into a Falcon 4 or Rise of Flight campaign for example. Music taste is such a personal thing the chances of getting it 'right' seem pretty slim so why not focus on getting the sounds spot on for the sounds I mentioned in my previous post?

 

No I agree entirely, for most of the current generation of simmers I think it's true too, but the devs have already indicated they'd like to appeal to a wider audience instead of just pleasing the hardcore, leave the hardcore stuff to DCS and Clod and concentrate on making BoS just the best damned fun we can have young and old......

[Finkeren]

I personally couldn't care less about music in a flight sim. If I wan't music with my flying, I just use my own playlists.

 

However, I understand the importance of making this sim attractive to a broader audience, and an important part of that is confronting the (somewhat deserved) stereotype of flight sims as being extremely sterile and boring outside the sim itself. I don't really know, how flight sims got that way (car racing games and sims, which are in many ways similar to flight sims, don't seem to have this problem at all) but it's something that has to be dealt with, and music is going to be part of creating the right atmosphere. I'd personally suggest something authentic (most is public domain - would save a lot of time and money), there are a lot of interesting tunes from the time, though they're little known to a broader audience aside from the obvious ones like "Katyusha" and "Lili Marleen". There might be some political issues with some of the song (especially on the German side), but it should be posible to work around the worst pitfalls.

 

It's something that needs to be taken care of, but I would advice the devs not to waste any effort on it, untill the core game is running smoothly.

[DD_bongodriver]

They have to get this sim out on deadline, I'm pretty sure that would be the conditions 1C laid out for the financial support, clearly 777 don't intend to release a half baked game, so music or not we get what we get on the deadline in whatever condition it is.

[DD_Arthur]

The first thing I do is turn music off in any game

 

 This.

[SCG_Neun]

I have to say that the Russians had some awesome music for that time period, and the Germans........well no wonder they listened to French and some American Swing. I like the idea of an mp3 folder and we can load up our personal preferences for those extended long boring flights to the front.

[=LD=Hethwill]

Enough good swing jazz and country tunes to fill in your period playlists.

 

I would put my hands on the fire that 19 out of 20 pilots would lounge at base mess hearing to whatever joyful music they came across instead of the martial stuff.

[Jaws2002]

The first thing I do is turn music off in any game

 

 

+1.

Have to hear my engine and buffeting when I fly.

 

Why not spend the energy tuning other sound related things in the game instead? For example not a single flight sim modeled the "crack" supersonic  bullets/shells make.

[DD_bongodriver]

+1.

Have to hear my engine and buffeting when I fly.

 

Why not spend the energy tuning other sound related things in the game instead? For example not a single flight sim modeled the "crack" supersonic  bullets/shells make.

 

The significance of all this real world stuff would be completely lost on potential newcomers to the genre.

[BMW801]

I always turn off the music too. I would rather hear engine noises, etc

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I reinstalled IL2 last night, the music was so horrific I had to laugh.

[yaky109]

You can take any German folksong, play it in the minor as passionately grandiose as you like with forces of full orchestra and a massive world class choir and you have the Russian version. Works every time 

[Heywooood]

music is so subjective - leave it open for each user to make their own selection - takes out the whole copy right infringement worry too

 

that said - the best I ever heard when used with a WWII dogfight vid was the theme from 'Last of the Mohicans' film...with Daniel Day Lewis...great music

Edited September 29, 2013 by Heywooood

[Crow]

Hey I found this really great Russian song I think you guys will all like:

 

 

Also, hearing Katyusha made me think of this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIY36UbDbQQ

[Rigel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1e9Sz8I8k&feature=player_embedded

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

this....

http://youtu.be/hPO1TABwPCk

 

even  though its about BoB

Edited October 4, 2013 by F19_Klunk

[=69.GIAP=YSTREB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1e9Sz8I8k&feature=player_embedded

 

good one

[Mac_Messer]

music is so subjective - leave it open for each user to make their own selection - takes out the whole copy right infringement worry too

This. Nobody will stop me from putting inThe Imperial March or the LW March from BoB

[HippyDruid]

I will be listening to this when I turn 109s into confetti.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPD-_Q0c5XA

Edited October 4, 2013 by HippyDruid

[nynek]

Well that is it, people view stuff that is over 70 years old and expect something with the drive that would be uplifting also

today. but like everything music goes by fashion, what might be in one decade a real hit, might be absolutely unhearable 20 to 30

years later. What I posted was music of the time, and used by the airforces. That it does not necessaryly hit todays tastes and expectations

of a driving music fitting to lots of action should be also clear. I for my part being into reenactment, would turn off anything that is not

appropriet for the period.

Also what might be forgotten the music was never made for a world wide audiance but more for people who understood and connected

more easily with the music. Finding a music that connects to all around the world, and fitting for the period? I would say forget it, you never

will get all under one hat.

 

 

 

 

Long story short Lord Haw-Haw I wanna bet that at least Luftwaffe pilots were listening to this instead of some boring marches.

 

 

I have no problem with this piece.

[J4SCrisZeri]

Please everything but the sad depressing piano theme in CLoD

I know this game is not going to be anywhere similar to CLoD, and it it a different team, but you never know

 

Wing of Prey, beside some nice graphic candy, is a silly game compared to SIMS, but I think it had some serious, epic music inside.

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

Long story short Lord Haw-Haw I wanna bet that at least Luftwaffe pilots were listening to this instead of some boring marches.

 

 

I have no problem with this piece.

Sorry can not view you posted video, stupid gema rights are blocking it in Germany.

Well to be honest I sometimes listen to music on long flights with a bomber.

But as long as there is the option to either turn off the music. or add your

own mp3s I really do not care about the music, as I usually rev up a flight sim for flying and not

for any music.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Lord_Haw-Haw

[Skoshi_Tiger]

Enough good swing jazz and country tunes to fill in your period playlists.

 

 

One of the things I loved about Janes WWII Fighters was the Big Band music. Sort of made you think about how young these guys were. If it wasn't for war they'd be back home going out on Friday nights and all that. 

 

Sort of put things into perspective.